College Bball Thread

[Uspshoosier]

I love seeing College GameDay for football on today. 1step closer to college basketball


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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

3 days ago he showed up to support him in a court room. 

Gotcha. Didn't realize that thanks

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[Hoosierfan2017]

1 hour ago, jk34 said:

Unbelievable! What a scumbag.

He was cleared of all charges after a two week trial. Izzo thought he was not guilty, and so did a 12 person jury. So much so that they only took 3 hours to deliberate. 

If I was a player I would want a coach who is there to support me during tough times instead of a coach who would just throw me to the wolves, especially if I'm not guilty. 

[Brass Cannon]

15 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

He was cleared of all charges after a two week trial. Izzo thought he was not guilty, and so did a 12 person jury. So much so that they only took 3 hours to deliberate. 

If I was a player I would want a coach who is there to support me during tough times instead of a coach who would just throw me to the wolves, especially if I'm not guilty. 

Lol the jury found him not guilty didn’t mean they didn’t know he did it. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

13 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Lol the jury found him not guilty didn’t mean they didn’t know he did it. 

9 of the 12 people on the jury were women. Is there anything that can convince you someone accused of rape didn't do it? Because apparently going through trial and being found not guilty of every charge filed against them isn't enough for you. Not sure what else there is that could be done. 

[Brass Cannon]

19 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

9 of the 12 people on the jury were women. Is there anything that can convince you someone accused of rape didn't do it? Because apparently going through trial and being found not guilty of every charge filed against them isn't enough for you. Not sure what else there is that could be done. 

Izzo supported him before he was found not guilty.   And no it’s pretty hard to convince me somebody is innocent when there’s video of it

[Stuhoo]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

Izzo supported him before he was found innocent. And no it’s pretty hard to convince me somebody is innocent when there’s video of it

 

That’s where you are conflating the point. 

NO ONE in the history of American jurisprudence has EVER been adjudged “innocent.” And that’s not the operative question regarding Mateen Cleaves.

Our imperfect but excellent system requires proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

That’s where you are conflating the point. 

NO ONE in the history of American jurisprudence has EVER been adjudged “innocent.” And that’s not the operative question regarding Mateen Cleaves.

Our imperfect but excellent system requires proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

 No I’m not. He was found not guilty. That doesn’t mean he didn’t do it like hoosierfan is trying to say. 

Edit sorry typo

[Stuhoo]

17 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

9 of the 12 people on the jury were women. Is there anything that can convince you someone accused of rape didn't do it? Because apparently going through trial and being found not guilty of every charge filed against them isn't enough for you. Not sure what else there is that could be done. 

 

The jury DID NOT find that he “didn’t do it.”

They found that there was not sufficient evidence to support proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Hoosierfan2017]

6 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Izzo supported him before he was found innocent. And no it’s pretty hard to convince me somebody is innocent when there’s video of it

The video certainly is a very bad look for him. But, the jury heard enough evidence over the course of the trial to outweigh it and find him not guilty. 

[Brass Cannon]

Just now, Hoosierfan2017 said:

The video certainly is a very bad look for him. But, the jury heard enough evidence over the course of the trial to outweigh it and find him not guilty. 

Which doesn’t mean he didn’t do it. Just like Morgan Ellison saying he was innocent didn’t make him innocent like you claimed. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

Which doesn’t mean he didn’t do it. 

Sure, he might have done it. Only him and the accused truly know. But when someone is found not guilty I feel comfortable enough saying they didn't do it, because otherwise you're in a situation where there's always doubt. It's almost impossible to prove a negative. If I was ever charged and then found not guilty of a crime I wouldn't want people to think "oh well he still might of done it". 

[Brass Cannon]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Sure, he might have done it. Only him and the accused truly know. But when someone is found not guilty I feel comfortable enough saying they didn't do it, because otherwise you're in a situation where there's always doubt. It's almost impossible to prove a negative. If I was ever charged and then found not guilty of a crime I wouldn't want people to think "oh well he still might of done it". 

Well if there was video of you doing it I think you would have to understand why people would do it

[Hoosierfan2017]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Well if there was video of you doing it I think you would have to understand why people would do it

There is not a video of him "doing it". The video does not show any rape. If we're going to be precise with the "not guilty" vs. "innocent" then we should be precise here too. 

[Brass Cannon]

40 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

There is not a video of him "doing it". The video does not show any rape. If we're going to be precise with the "not guilty" vs. "innocent" then we should be precise here too. 

It may not show actual rape but sure as hell shows a crime. Not to mention an eye witness saying the woman was yelling for help. 

 

[Hoosierfan2017]

14 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

It may not show actual rape but sure as hell shows a crime. Not to mention an eye witness saying the woman was yelling for help. 

 

The video is certainly a bad look for him. Either the jurors received evidence to counter the video, or they didn't want to convict because he's a former Michigan State basketball star and Flint native. 

[Brass Cannon]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

The video is certainly a bad look for him. Either the jurors received evidence to counter the video, or they didn't want to convict because he's a former Michigan State basketball star and Flint native. 

Or our criminal justice system is biased against rape victims

[Hoosierfan2017]

4 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Or our criminal justice system is biased against rape victims

It's not biased. Rape is a hard crime to prove. 

[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

It's not biased. Rape is a hard crime to prove. 

Yeah it is. But somebody who still thinks Morgan Ellison got a raw deal and there’s nothing disreputable about repeatedly dragging a woman yelling help me into a motel room is probably never going to be able to admit that. 

[Hoosierfan2017]

32 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Yeah it is. But somebody who still thinks Morgan Ellison got a raw deal and there’s nothing disreputable about repeatedly dragging a woman yelling help me into a motel room is probably never going to be able to admit that. 

Disreputable: not considered to be respectable in character or appearance.

You: "somebody who thinks there's nothing disreputable about ..."

Me, in two separate posts, before your above comment: "The video certainly is a bad look for him."

If you want to have a conversation then I'd be happy to have one. If you want to mischaracterize and/or completely ignore what I've said then I'm not interested.