NBA Thread

[mdn82 25,464]

Wow, I never knew he got swept twice in the first round. Not surprising I guess, since people act like the only years he played basketball were 92-98.

I actually thought his best years were 86-90. In 88 when he averaged 32/8/8 with 3 steals per game while winning DPOY was my favorite individual season. Or 86 when he averaged 37 per game. But he wasn't going to beat complete teams like that.


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[mdn82 25,464]

"But it's different because it's Jordan!" Lol. Ok. Continue the mental gymnastics to argue that getting swept in the Finals is worse than getting swept in the first round. The Detroit team he beat basically by himself to get to the finals was certainly not trash. Jordan never faced a team better than this year's Golden State team. 

I don't think any team has ever beat a team this good. Basically you have this GS team. The 98 Bulls. Or the Celtics of the 60s as being head and shoulders above the competition.


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[Hoosierfan2017 19,921]

11 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Maybe, maybe not. Lebron didn't make the playoffs his first two years. Both of the sweeps were against the Celtics who at the time were 1 and 2 with the Lakers. One of those seasons the Bulls got the 8 seed was a year Jordan was out for 64 games with his broken foot. The Bulls really weren't a true title threat until Jordan trusted his teammates and started passing the ball. Lebron came in right out of high school. Jordan was an early entry at a time that didn't happen often. Different times for sure. In the 80's you had the Celtics and Pistons in the East which any year could win a title. If you were a 7 or 8 you were at best winning one game. It was a best of 5 so you had to win game 3 for that to happen. That is why an 8 never beat a 1 until Denver. The first two games were critical in the first round. Way different than now. You weren't going to the Garden or Palace and winning.


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I don't think there's any shame in Jordan getting swept by those teams because the Celtics were extremely tough back then, and I don't think there's any shame in LeBron getting swept in the Finals either. He was rolling with Drew Gooden and Sasha Pavlovic against the Spurs jugarnaut in 2007 at age 22, and now he's going up against the super team to beat all super teams. If he came in, wet the bed and got swept then sure, let's have the conversation, but he's averaging a 30 point triple double. He's bringing it, he just doesn't have the fire power behind him to compete with the Warriors. I just brought up the question because if getting swept in the Finals twice disqualifies LeBron from any GOAT conversation then we should apply the same standard to Jordan and realize that he got swept in the first round twice. 

[Brass Cannon 24,069]

The guys that played with Jordan had some of their best years with him.  Not sure you can say that about that with Lebron

[Hoosierfan2017 19,921]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

The guys that played with Jordan had some of their best years with him.  Not sure you can say that about that with Lebron

Name some players that played with LeBron that played worse with him than without him. The notion that he makes his teammates worse is absurd and would get you laughed at by analysts. This team won 66 games in 2008-2009. 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,921]

43 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

How close do you think it is between MJ and Bron? Or do you think he has surpassed MJ already? Why do you think his teammates falter down the stretch that has led to a poor finals record?

1a and 1b right now with it being a toss up in who is where. I think LeBron will be ahead once he retires but until then it's hard to say. If he becomes the first player with 30,000 points, 10,000 rebounds and 10,000 assists I think that makes a pretty convincing argument for best overall player of all time. 

[Brass Cannon 24,069]

21 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Name some players that played with LeBron that played worse with him than without him. The notion that he makes his teammates worse is absurd and would get you laughed at by analysts. This team won 66 games in 2008-2009. 

You bring these guys who were studs on other teams then act like they are a cancer that needs to be traded within a season. Kevin love for example. 

[HoosierAloha 29,916]

1a and 1b right now with it being a toss up in who is where. I think LeBron will be ahead once he retires but until then it's hard to say. If he becomes the first player with 30,000 points, 10,000 rebounds and 10,000 assists I think that makes a pretty convincing argument for best overall player of all time. 

Why do you think his teammates let him down in the Finals? I believe LeBron has the better all around game but isn't close to MJ. Part of it might have been the time I grew up vs. the present. It might also be the Finals, how he conducted himself, the competition he overcame, the time spent away from the game, etc.

The "what if" game is fun but what if MJ doesn't step away from the league. They could have very easily won 8 titles in a row... had that been the case we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

[Brass Cannon 24,069]

1 minute ago, HoosierAloha said:

Why do you think his teammates let him down in the Finals? I believe LeBron has the better all around game but isn't close to MJ. Part of it might have been the time I grew up vs. the present. It might also be the Finals, how he conducted himself, the competition he overcame, the time spent away from the game, etc.

The "what if" game is fun but what if MJ doesn't step away from the league. They could have very easily won 8 titles in a row... had that been the case we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Plus MJ did it in the stronger conference. 

[Hoosierfan2017 19,921]

16 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Why do you think his teammates let him down in the Finals? I believe LeBron has the better all around game but isn't close to MJ. Part of it might have been the time I grew up vs. the present. It might also be the Finals, how he conducted himself, the competition he overcame, the time spent away from the game, etc.

The "what if" game is fun but what if MJ doesn't step away from the league. They could have very easily won 8 titles in a row... had that been the case we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Beats me, is it Lebron's fault when his teammates miss shots? He didn't make Kevin Love go 1-9 last night. He didn't make Kyrie Irving go 0-7 from 3 last night. He didn't make Tristan Thompson only grab 3 rebounds last night. Is he supposed to do all that for him?

Jordan was a gambling addict that punched out his teammates and cheated on his wife but yes let's discuss how he conducted himself. Jordan is supposed to be this ultra competitor but he quit on his team during his prime. Wow. Imagine the scrutiny if LeBron had quit basketball during his prime. 

[wirenuts 1,055]

I think Jordan himself said it best when he said that the best player of all time is a silly discussion....what everyone should be talking about is the best Team. Its impossible to talk about the greatest player ever with so many changing eras. How can we know how LeBron would fare in the 80s and 90s and how Jordan would do today, or in the 50s.

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[Hoosierfan2017 19,921]

Jordan would never pass the ball late in the game like LeBron did last night. Guys like Jordan always wanted to take the shot. Jordan never would've blown a lead like the Cavs did last night with everything on the line. Jordan made his teammates better and they never faltered down the stretch. 

The legend of Michael Jordan grows more and more every year. Lucky for him this happened in the 2nd round so it doesn't count or something like that. 

[HoosierMatt 136]

Jordan would never pass the ball late in the game like LeBron did last night. Guys like Jordan always wanted to take the shot. Jordan never would've blown a lead like the Cavs did last night with everything on the line. Jordan made his teammates better and they never faltered down the stretch. 
The legend of Michael Jordan grows more and more every year. Lucky for him this happened in the 2nd round so it doesn't count or something like that. 

Steve Kerr and John Paxon?


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[Dalton26 16,891]

Many won't agree but LeBron is better than Jordan. I don't like either of them tbh but I'd take LeBron 9/10 times of Jordan. I also don't think MJ is the best player of all time either though.


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[Hoosierfan2017 19,921]

I think Shaq's prime was better than anyone else's prime. I don't think he sustained it long enough to be the goat, but idk if anyone was better than him at his best. 

[mdn82 25,464]

Many won't agree but LeBron is better than Jordan. I don't like either of them tbh but I'd take LeBron 9/10 times of Jordan. I also don't think MJ is the best player of all time either though.


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I don't think you could go wrong with either. I take Jordan for his game at both ends of the floor and his ability to close out games. DPOY in 88 when he put up 32/8/8 and 3 steals per game. 9 time 1st team all defense. Dude was just dominant at both ends of the floor. If a Facilitator is what your team needs you go with Lebron. No player has ever had the vision he has or just raw athletic ability with that size. Both their respective teams were built differently. Jordan's best team involved Pippen and Rodman as the Big 3. They won 70 with that team. His other teams mainly consisted of BJ Armstrong, John Paxson, Horace Grant, Bill Cartwright, and Kucoc beyond Pippen. Not exactly Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving, etc.


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[mdn82 25,464]

I think Shaq's prime was better than anyone else's prime. I don't think he sustained it long enough to be the goat, but idk if anyone was better than him at his best. 

There is a good argument for that. Nobody could stop him. Unfortunately for him nobody took a beating in NBA history like him due to that.


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[HoosierAloha 29,916]

I think Jordan himself said it best when he said that the best player of all time is a silly discussion....what everyone should be talking about is the best Team. Its impossible to talk about the greatest player ever with so many changing eras. How can we know how LeBron would fare in the 80s and 90s and how Jordan would do today, or in the 50s.

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How do you debate the best team for the same reasons?! This year's version of the GSW looks amazing. If they had finished off last season with a title that would have been the best season. If they sweep this season they will have had the best regular season record and postseason record in consecutive seasons. Were they better than the Bulls? That's more difficult than the greatest player discussion.

[wirenuts 1,055]

How do you debate the best team for the same reasons?! This year's version of the GSW looks amazing. If they had finished off last season with a title that would have been the best season. If they sweep this season they will have had the best regular season record and postseason record in consecutive seasons. Were they better than the Bulls? That's more difficult than the greatest player discussion.

Pretty simple really...I don't debate it...all I can do is pick my favorites of each. For example, the greatest player in my mind is wilt Chamberlain. Nobody has been as good in their prime as wilt...the best team(dynasty) is the Boston Celtics with Bill Russell. That doesn't mean either choice is the consensus. So there ya go

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[HoosierAloha 29,916]

Beats me, is it Lebron's fault when his teammates miss shots? He didn't make Kevin Love go 1-9 last night. He didn't make Kyrie Irving go 0-7 from 3 last night. He didn't make Tristan Thompson only grab 3 rebounds last night. Is he supposed to do all that for him?
Jordan was a gambling addict that punched out his teammates and cheated on his wife but yes let's discuss how he conducted himself. Jordan is supposed to be this ultra competitor but he quit on his team during his prime. Wow. Imagine the scrutiny if LeBron had quit basketball during his prime. 

It just seems like his teammates let him down too often. Are his teammates looking for him to finish a play and not ready? There are two sides that are passionate about their stance. The LeBron side seems to think he does almost everything right and his teammates let him down. The Jordan side looks at the titles and the dominance.

Anyone who bashes a player whose parent was murdered is a coward. If I were IT this season I'm not sure I could have dressed myself for a game. Quitting on his team? I'm not sure that's fair. Did LeBron quit on his team when he made his Decision to go to Miami? Yes, he took the Heat for making an immature announcement.

I honestly can't stand the whining. It frustrates me to no end seeing grown men almost crying to get a call when they get the benefit of 90% of the calls. I get that it happens and most teams do it. Jordan got a ton of calls in his time. I don't recall him trying to get opponents T'd up or suspended.