NBA Thread

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,672]

13 hours ago, Alford Bailey said:

Started watching the Pacers during the Chuck Person years as a kid. Seems like the organization has zero interest in getting back to the level play we saw during the Miller, Smits, Davis years.

They don't even want to get back to the Artest or PG years of success. 

[Rico 3,034]

On 8/1/2021 at 11:10 PM, Alford Bailey said:

Started watching the Pacers during the Chuck Person years as a kid. Seems like the organization has zero interest in getting back to the level play we saw during the Miller, Smits, Davis years.

I grew up knowing the Pacers being perennial winners...then they moved to the NBA.

[Stuhoo 80,579]

On 7/12/2021 at 9:55 PM, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

And Popovich lead US teams continue to embarrass. 

 

On 7/13/2021 at 7:20 AM, KingPG21 said:

Am I the only one who thinks Pop is one of the most overrated coaches? Like I’d rather have him than not. But there are a lot of people who act like he is an amazing coach. 

 

On 7/13/2021 at 9:59 AM, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

He's god awful so far as an Olympian coach. But we just don't have the same type of players, same type of coaches or same chip on the shoulder as past teams did. This team seems disinterested and slow. I thought Popovich was great at teaching team basketball and this trash has been 1v1 and lazy pick and rolls. It looks like Archie is out there coaching this garbage. 

 

On 7/13/2021 at 1:10 PM, KingPG21 said:

I mean he hasn’t done anything since sDu can and those guys retired. He doesn’t seem to like the modern game in general.

 

granted it all comes down to talent. Coaching does make a difference 

 

Hmmmm…some Popovich-led redemption about to be served up?

 

[ap2345 7,832]

On 8/2/2021 at 12:49 PM, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

They don't even want to get back to the Artest or PG years of success. 

That's a very casual take. 

[ap2345 7,832]

People love to bash the Pacers and say that the Simons don't spend money but that's not true. They just spent 29 million to hire Carlisle while they are still paying 2 other coaches. They also have spent all of their salary available without going into the luxury tax and have the 6th highest salary in the NBA. They have a very good and deep roster and might still make another move or 2. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,672]

1 hour ago, ap2345 said:

People love to bash the Pacers and say that the Simons don't spend money but that's not true. They just spent 29 million to hire Carlisle while they are still paying 2 other coaches. They also have spent all of their salary available without going into the luxury tax and have the 6th highest salary in the NBA. They have a very good and deep roster and might still make another move or 2. 

Theyve spent all their salary cap on people who are 3rd options at best. 

[Demo 19,924]

42 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Theyve spent all their salary cap on people who are 3rd options at best. 

Arguing that they spent their money on the wrong guys(worthy of debate) is different than arguing that they aren’t trying to win(unworthy of debate).

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,672]

14 minutes ago, Demo said:

Arguing that they spent their money on the wrong guys(worthy of debate) is different than arguing that they aren’t trying to win(unworthy of debate).

Well if you're not spending money to win a championship or even make it past the 1st round... Then what are you doing?

[Hovadipo 56,070]

10 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Well if you're not spending money to win a championship or even make it past the 1st round... Then what are you doing?

What do you propose they spend money on? All the 1st option free agents around the league beating down the doors of BLF to come live in Indy?

[ap2345 7,832]

1 hour ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Theyve spent all their salary cap on people who are 3rd options at best. 

Team full of 3rd options may be better than a team with a star and a bunch of role players. This year will be telling but they've built a solid team and done so when they can't lure top tier guys to come to Indy? So I'm not sure how you propose they get those #1 options without completely overpaying via trade which would be stupid or getting lucky in the draft.

[8bucks 6,438]

A mid market team that does not want to go into the luxury tax has a very narrow path to being a contender. Generally you have to draft a legitimate star (really you 2-3) and then fight off big market teams who will lure them away. In conjunction with this you need to trade well. Everyone felt we won the Vic -PG trade and we were in a great spot with the way Vic played. He was in a position to be our next Reggie, all NBA face of the franchise.

Then he got hurt and he got sideways with the leadership. Then we found ourselves back on the narrow path.

My biggest complaints with the Pacers is that twice they had their best player get sideways (have to find a way to fix that) and it seemed clear to most that they did not have the firepower to win this year. Without having to worry about an empty arena they should have found a way to get a top 3 pick.


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[ap2345 7,832]

1 minute ago, 8bucks said:

A mid market team that does not want to go into the luxury tax has a very narrow path to being a contender. Generally you have to draft a legitimate star (really you 2-3) and then fight off big market teams who will lure them away. In conjunction with this you need to trade well. Everyone felt we won the Vic -PG trade and we were in a great spot with the way Vic played. He was in a position to be our next Reggie, all NBA face of the franchise.

Then he got hurt and he got sideways with the leadership. Then we found ourselves back on the narrow path.

My biggest complaints with the Pacers is that twice they had their best player get sideways (have to find a way to fix that) and it seemed clear to most that they did not have the firepower to win this year. Without having to worry about an empty arena they should have found a way to get a top 3 pick.


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Things went sideways with PG and Vic had 1 really good season. His 2nd year when he got hurt he wasn't as good prior to the injury then the injury happened and he still hasn't recovered. The fact that he never accepted the Pacers extension offer was a major dodged bullet for the organization. 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,672]

4 hours ago, Hovadipo said:

What do you propose they spend money on? All the 1st option free agents around the league beating down the doors of BLF to come live in Indy?

If you're not going to spend money, you have draft well, develop talent and trade well. The Pacers do literally none of that. 

[Hovadipo 56,070]

3 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

If you're not going to spend money, you have draft well, develop talent and trade well. The Pacers do literally none of that. 

I agree with that, but you really think they aren’t trying to do those other things? Or what’s the argument here?

[Brass Cannon 24,728]

3 minutes ago, Hovadipo said:

I agree with that, but you really think they aren’t trying to do those other things? Or what’s the argument here?

There draft strategy tends to focus on getting relatively solid guys.  Which can work if you are able to attract superstars in FA.  We can’t.  So we should be trying to hit a home run or two in consecutive drafts and bring in solid FAs around those two.  
 

Drafting strategy does not seem to play to our strengths 

[KingPG21 6,584]

4 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

If you're not going to spend money, you have draft well, develop talent and trade well. The Pacers do literally none of that. 

They've done a great job in trades. Turned a guy who didn't want to be here into a guy that was third team all NBA good before injuries, along with a guy that has been in back to back all star games. Then they turned a guy who is hyper inefficient into an upgrade on a better contract with more guaranteed yyears. Saying they've been bad in trades is just wrong. 

 

Also its important for a franchise like this to not commit to bad contracts. Who is the worst contract on the Pacers, like TJM now? I don't love everything the Pacers do, but you act like we're the Kings or Cavs

[Brass Cannon 24,728]

2 minutes ago, KingPG21 said:

They've done a great job in trades. Turned a guy who didn't want to be here into a guy that was third team all NBA good before injuries, along with a guy that has been in back to back all star games. Then they turned a guy who is hyper inefficient into an upgrade on a better contract with more guaranteed yyears. Saying they've been bad in trades is just wrong. 

 

Also its important for a franchise like this to not commit to bad contracts. Who is the worst contract on the Pacers, like TJM now? I don't love everything the Pacers do, but you act like we're the Kings or Cavs

We were pretty envious of the Cavs when they played in 4 straight NBA finals 

[KingPG21 6,584]

5 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

We were pretty envious of the Cavs when they played in 4 straight NBA finals 

I mean outside of the LeBron years they've been horribly ran since what the early 90's? Even then they did a bad job putting talent around him. 

 

 Minnesota is probably a better franchise to use as an example of a poorly run one. 

[Brass Cannon 24,728]

2 minutes ago, KingPG21 said:

I mean outside of the LeBron years they've been horribly ran since what the early 90's? Even then they did a bad job putting talent around him. 

 

 Minnesota is probably a better franchise to use as an example of a poorly run one. 

Good points. I generally think the issue with talent procurement for the Cavs is that Lebron was orchestrating the players.  Forced them to acquire them. Then a year later they ain’t good enough.  

We need to play to our strength.  You need superstars to succeed. We can’t acquire them so we have to draft them. Yet we do nothing to try and do that. We settle for a pick in the mid teens every year and hope they are solid 

[KingPG21 6,584]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Good points. I generally think the issue with talent procurement for the Cavs is that Lebron was orchestrating the players.  Forced them to acquire them. Then a year later they ain’t good enough.  

We need to play to our strength.  You need superstars to succeed. We can’t acquire them so we have to draft them. Yet we do nothing to try and do that. We settle for a pick in the mid teens every year and hope they are solid 

I think we agree on everything actually. 

 

I just think complaining about stuff from this offseason is weird. Outside of trading up for Kuminga or Suggs in the draft I don't really see what they could have done to get a super star or future super star