Tom Crean ...where is he?

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

Fair enough Dalton26--it definitely can go both ways--there's homers on both sides!

 

Being objective means seeing both sides of issues and recognizing the good and the bad.

 

It's not 100% sunshine ---but it's not 100% doom and gloom either!

 

Leads to good discussions too!

[schoosier 3,740]

The difference is that the Knight jokes were never used as justification for his removal. People actually have used the superficial criticisms of Crean in arguments for his firing.
Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

Not even close. The jokes about Knight's temper were true and ultimately got him fired. The arguments for firing Crean has always been between the lines. Do you really think anyone would want him fired for being too tan or maniacal on the sidelines if he had won a national championship or consistently put us in the dance? I knew out the gate he was over his head running the dribble drive for three years with basically walkons. I still wanted him to be successful but any seasoned player, fan, or critic could see his coaching weaknesses years 1-3. Then the total collapse of a #1 rated team most of the year was icing as far as his limitations. Dean Smith could have taken that team and won it all and Knight always kicked his but regularly come tournament time. You can have the best players but at some point a top coach is the difference. No joke about that.

[JSHoosier 22,211]

Not even close. The jokes about Knight's temper were true and ultimately got him fired. The arguments for firing Crean has always been between the lines. Do you really think anyone would want him fired for being too tan or maniacal on the sidelines if he had won a national championship or consistently put us in the dance? I knew out the gate he was over his head running the dribble drive for three years with basically walkons. I still wanted him to be successful but any seasoned player, fan, or critic could see his coaching weaknesses years 1-3. Then the total collapse of a #1 rated team most of the year was icing as far as his limitations. Dean Smith could have taken that team and won it all and Knight always kicked his but regularly come tournament time. You can have the best players but at some point a top coach is the difference. No joke about that.

Bob Knight's last few seasons were more consistent then Tom Crean has had in his entire career too.

We were still top half of the conference every year.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Not even close. The jokes about Knight's temper were true and ultimately got him fired. The arguments for firing Crean has always been between the lines. Do you really think anyone would want him fired for being too tan or maniacal on the sidelines if he had won a national championship or consistently put us in the dance? I knew out the gate he was over his head running the dribble drive for three years with basically walkons. I still wanted him to be successful but any seasoned player, fan, or critic could see his coaching weaknesses years 1-3. Then the total collapse of a #1 rated team most of the year was icing as far as his limitations. Dean Smith could have taken that team and won it all and Knight always kicked his but regularly come tournament time. You can have the best players but at some point a top coach is the difference. No joke about that.

Alright, you are actually taking what I'm saying, and then twisting it into something different. Jokes didn't get Knight fired. Whether you believe he did or not, he appeared to choke a student and gave Brand the opportunity to feed his ego that he needed. Jokes won't be then reason Crean is fired either. I said people have used the jokes in arguments for why they want him gone.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[GloryDays 6,224]

  Do we have any choices other than Sunshine Pumpers or Doomsday Preppers?

How about Partly Sunny to Partly Cloudy? :scratchhead:

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Not even close. The jokes about Knight's temper were true and ultimately got him fired. The arguments for firing Crean has always been between the lines. Do you really think anyone would want him fired for being too tan or maniacal on the sidelines if he had won a national championship or consistently put us in the dance? I knew out the gate he was over his head running the dribble drive for three years with basically walkons. I still wanted him to be successful but any seasoned player, fan, or critic could see his coaching weaknesses years 1-3. Then the total collapse of a #1 rated team most of the year was icing as far as his limitations. Dean Smith could have taken that team and won it all and Knight always kicked his but regularly come tournament time. You can have the best players but at some point a top coach is the difference. No joke about that.

My original point in this thread was that the Crean jokes are old and just an attempt to discredit him. They add no value, and very few are even creative anymore. You want to discredit Crean? Talk about substitutions, half court offense, and in game adjustment issues. That's a basketball discussion and those are valid weaknesses that Crean has as a coach. I support Crean and appreciate what he did for the program enough to not stoop to the level of Purdue and UK when discussing his inadequacies. Clappy and hair jokes are easy, unintelligent ways to highlight his shortcomings.

What you've attempted to do in every argument we've had is take one small point, and then blow that into an argument and detract from my original stance. You're not trying to make a point, just discredit mine.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Do we have any choices other than Sunshine Pumpers or Doomsday Preppers?
How about Partly Sunny to Partly Cloudy? :scratchhead:

Those are the worst of them all. You can't predict them! :)


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[KingPG21 6,587]

Dean Smith could have taken that team and won it all and Knight always kicked his but regularly come tournament time. You can have the best players but at some point a top coach is the difference. No joke about that.

 

I might be completely wrong...... but isn't Dean Smith considered one of the best to have ever coached the game? How is saying he would have taken that team (2012 IU squad) to the national championship a knock against Crean. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I might be completely wrong...... but isn't Dean Smith considered one of the best to have ever coached the game? How is saying he would have taken that team (2012 IU squad) to the national championship a knock against Crean.

I was thrown off as well. He went to a ton of Final fours, but only won the championship twice. I don't think this really makes any sense at all.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[coonhounds 10,555]

Do we have any choices other than Sunshine Pumpers or Doomsday Preppers?
How about Partly Sunny to Partly Cloudy? :scratchhead:

that's where I fall I think

[GloryDays 6,224]

that's where I fall I think

Everything in moderation they say.

I've heard that about alcohol but I'm not sold on that  after watching our team play last year!

[schoosier 3,740]

I might be completely wrong...... but isn't Dean Smith considered one of the best to have ever coached the game? How is saying he would have taken that team (2012 IU squad) to the national championship a knock against Crean.

IMO he wasn't one of the best. He finally won a championship with Michael Jordan then won 2 more with Indiana centers during the Davis down years, but he regularly underachieved with his talent. Plus, Bob Knight absolutely owned him come tournament time with big wins over Deans teams such as their #1 lead Jordan team in 84 as well as the 81 title game. Coca Cola Roy is similar in my opinion with never winning won at Kansas then finding out his championships at UNC will forever be tarnished by non classes Afro Am studies where a majority of his players majored. Boeheim at Syracuse is another example. Just my opinion of course.

[schoosier 3,740]

My original point in this thread was that the Crean jokes are old and just an attempt to discredit him. They add no value, and very few are even creative anymore. You want to discredit Crean? Talk about substitutions, half court offense, and in game adjustment issues. That's a basketball discussion and those are valid weaknesses that Crean has as a coach. I support Crean and appreciate what he did for the program enough to not stoop to the level of Purdue and UK when discussing his inadequacies. Clappy and hair jokes are easy, unintelligent ways to highlight his shortcomings.
What you've attempted to do in every argument we've had is take one small point, and then blow that into an argument and detract from my original stance. You're not trying to make a point, just discredit mine.
Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

No, your original point was people use Crean jokes as reasoning to get him fired. I never have. Maybe you should read mine. While I may have joked about his use of a 3 x 5 card for coaching advice, I normally disect what he's trying to do in games and then try to figure out why. Like why a 3 man top weave was used in years 1-3 when we didn't have the personnel to run it. A good old fashioned flex or motion offense obviously would have gotten us a lot more wins, and many posters like yourself were willing to lose since he was installing his system. The same one that didn't even get us to an NIT game with a lottery pick and 2 other 1000 point scorers in year 6. Creans a good man as I have continually said just average at best at what he is ultimately judged at Indiana.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

No, your original point was people use Crean jokes as reasoning to get him fired. I never have. Maybe you should read mine. While I may have joked about his use of a 3 x 5 card for coaching advice, I normally disect what he's trying to do in games and then try to figure out why. Like why a 3 man top weave was used in years 1-3 when we didn't have the personnel to run it. A good old fashioned flex or motion offense obviously would have gotten us a lot more wins, and many posters like yourself were willing to lose since he was installing his system. The same one that didn't even get us to an NIT game with a lottery pick and 2 other 1000 point scorers in year 6. Creans a good man as I have continually said just average at best at what he is ultimately judged at Indiana.

You're actually trying to argue with me about my opinion? You're ridiculous. I also never specifically named you as someone making the jokes. I haven't seen you make a joke, you're just trying to turn this into a personal argument. Enjoy your weekend.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

We're really talking about whether we should have run a flex offense in 2008? To get more wins? Why? So we could be 9-22 instead of 6-25? It's Indiana. Not Owen Valley HS. Freakin' flex offense, I got a laugh out of that one, SC, so thanks for that.

 

I can't wait for the season to start just so the debate can be ended.

[coonhounds 10,555]

We're really talking about whether we should have run a flex offense in 2008? To get more wins? Why? So we could be 9-22 instead of 6-25? It's Indiana. Not Owen Valley HS. Freakin' flex offense, I got a laugh out of that one, SC, so thanks for that.

I can't wait for the season to start just so the debate can be ended.

just wonder what debate will end when this season starts and why u think that?

[OliviaPope40 7,439]

As we all know the debates will never end we'll keep beating dead horses.

[NoahW35 459]

We're really talking about whether we should have run a flex offense in 2008? To get more wins? Why? So we could be 9-22 instead of 6-25? It's Indiana. Not Owen Valley HS. Freakin' flex offense, I got a laugh out of that one, SC, so thanks for that.

I can't wait for the season to start just so the debate can be ended.

Woahh did you go to Owen Valley?

[schoosier 3,740]

We're really talking about whether we should have run a flex offense in 2008? To get more wins? Why? So we could be 9-22 instead of 6-25? It's Indiana. Not Owen Valley HS. Freakin' flex offense, I got a laugh out of that one, SC, so thanks for that.
 
I can't wait for the season to start just so the debate can be ended.

You're welcome. I think the 9 wins came in year 2. Now, we finished year 6 without any post season game. It's Indiana right? Now that's really funny. Exactly what would you call our offense that consists of dribble dribble chuck up a shot before the buzzer? That and our 500 page playbook that doesn't consist of a successful end bounds play. Pure comedic genius? On the bright side you can always travel to a local high school like you mention to see how an offense really runs. Now that's Indiana.

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

Woodson1980---pure genius---love your middle of the road terms!

 

I am definitely in the "partly sunny" camp and if we overachieve this year I may just become a "sunshine pumper" again!

 

If we have a subpar season this year for the second season in a row----I will quickly join the "partly cloudy" camp and depending on how bad the season is I may become a "doomsday prepper"! 

 

Let's win!