Is Coach Crean feeling the heat?

[myboysinred 2]

This is probably going to upset some folks: I think Crean is good at recruiting. His coaching....well....needs improvement. I think we should keep CTC on the staff as a recruiter if it comes down to getting another coach. Let's see what happens this upcoming season. Then we can discuss who if any should replace him.


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[SilverAtlanta 69]

@Rayl, Does that mean SMU will definitely win the NIT?...

[FortWayneHoosier 6,128]

This is probably going to upset some folks: I think Crean is good at recruiting. His coaching....well....needs improvement. I think we should keep CTC on the staff as a recruiter if it comes down to getting another coach. Let's see what happens this upcoming season. Then we can discuss who if any should replace him.


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trust me this wont upset anybody, this board has been bombarded with so much crean talk. IMO he wouldnt stay at IU, to recruit if he was fired. Welcome to the forums

[HoosierReb01 7,511]

trust me this wont upset anybody, this board has been bombarded with so much crean talk. IMO he wouldnt stay at IU, to recruit if he was fired. Welcome to the forums

No way does CTC stay on as a assistant. He's been a head coach for long enough, I doubt he could ever fill a assistants role again. Plus, there are plenty of schools that would be perfectly happy to have him. Just not a school that considers itself a blueblood.

[FortWayneHoosier 6,128]

No way does CTC stay on as a assistant. He's been a head coach for long enough, I doubt he could ever fill a assistants role again. Plus, there are plenty of schools that would be perfectly happy to have him. Just not a school that considers itself a blueblood.

Plus it would be awkward working with people you were once in charge of lol. With that point, when a head coach is fired do they get rid of the whole staff?

[HoosierReb01 7,511]

Plus it would be awkward working with people you were once in charge of lol. With that point, when a head coach is fired do they get rid of the whole staff?

Generally. Although I am sure there are a number of exceptions. Assembling a coaching staff has a lot to do with trust, and holdovers are probably going to have some mixed loyalties.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

Sometimes the new head coach will keep some of the assistants but usually they get their own buddies a job.

[JonO 4]

A lot of critics point to the performance of the team this year. However, if you look back on Crean's overall record it is not that good. The play of the team last year was inconsistent. Even with a good amount of talent, it appeared Crean got out-coached in many games. Player talent is a lot like a new coat of paint, it can cover up some flaws but the flaws are still there.

 

How many games was Wafford MIA last year and the team struggled? However, Wafford continued to play regularly. I just don't see mental toughness from Crean or the players that is necessary to make a run at the end of the season. 

 

My overall impression of Crean is he is a good man. He emphasizes academics and cares about his players. In many ways, he has increased student interest in the men's basketball program. I think it is debatable if he has actually "brought the program back." I just don't think he is that great of a coach. 

[JSHoosier 20,266]

A lot of critics point to the performance of the team this year. However, if you look back on Crean's overall record it is not that good. The play of the team last year was inconsistent. Even with a good amount of talent, it appeared Crean got out-coached in many games. Player talent is a lot like a new coat of paint, it can cover up some flaws but the flaws are still there.

 

How many games was Wafford MIA last year and the team struggled? However, Wafford continued to play regularly. I just don't see mental toughness from Crean or the players that is necessary to make a run at the end of the season. 

 

My overall impression of Crean is he is a good man. He emphasizes academics and cares about his players. In many ways, he has increased student interest in the men's basketball program. I think it is debatable if he has actually "brought the program back." I just don't think he is that great of a coach. 

I've been saying that about his track record for a while.  Take away that one run 10 years ago, which looks more and more like a fluke all the time, and no one would be saying he's a good coach and we'd all be wondering why in the hell he was hired in the first place.  When people look at his Marquette career it seems they look at that solitary year and ignore the other 8.

[Rayl 527]

I've been saying that about his track record for a while.  Take away that one run 10 years ago, which looks more and more like a fluke all the time, and no one would be saying he's a good coach and we'd all be wondering why in the hell he was hired in the first place.  When people look at his Marquette career it seems they look at that solitary year and ignore the other 8.

 

Define "good coach." Crean is good at some things like offensive rebounding. He's not so good at others like turnovers. I'd say that Crean is a very good coach on offense, but a mediocre coach on defense. Overall, I think he's good. I don't think he's great or even quite good enough to get us where we want to go. But, if you say he's not a good coach, your arguments against him tend to fall on deaf ears because of the exaggeration.

[JSHoosier 20,266]

Define "good coach." Crean is good at some things like offensive rebounding. He's not so good at others like turnovers. I'd say that Crean is a very good coach on offense, but a mediocre coach on defense. Overall, I think he's good. I don't think he's great or even quite good enough to get us where we want to go. But, if you say he's not a good coach, your arguments against him tend to fall on deaf ears because of the exaggeration.

I wouldn't say he's that good of an offensive coach.  His offense dribbles way too much and doesn't move the ball much.  You've touched on turnovers.  His teams can't feed the post much either, and poorly utilizes big men.  He either cannot or will not adjust his system to the players he has, instead he'll try to put a square peg in a round hole.  When that inevitably fails he'll clap and try to shove the square peg in the round hole.  When that fails he really gets serious and pulls up his pants, then tries even harder to shove the square peg in the round hole.  Eventually he'll take sandpaper and try to make the square peg fit by sanding it down, but the whole thing could've been avoided by getting the round peg in the first place or thinking outside the box and putting the square peg in the square hole (adjusting his system).

 

All of that has to work against him in terms of being an offensive coach.  His teams are good in transition and the secondary break, I'll give him that.

 

He's good at certain aspects of being a coach.  He's a good, not great, recruiter.  He's a good spokesman.  At in game coaching he's mediocre.  At being adaptable he's downright abysmal.  His track record, aside from one (seemingly) fluke year, does not reflect a good coach.  Aside from that one year there is nothing to say he should be a coach at a big time program.

 

EDIT:  Oh, and when his team doesn't do well he looks to pass blame instead of looking in the mirror.

[Rayl 527]

I wouldn't say he's that good of an offensive coach.  His offense dribbles way too much and doesn't move the ball much.  You've touched on turnovers.  His teams can't feed the post much either, and poorly utilizes big men.  He either cannot or will not adjust his system to the players he has, instead he'll try to put a square peg in a round hole.  When that inevitably fails he'll clap and try to shove the square peg in the round hole.  When that fails he really gets serious and pulls up his pants, then tries even harder to shove the square peg in the round hole.  Eventually he'll take sandpaper and try to make the square peg fit by sanding it down, but the whole thing could've been avoided by getting the round peg in the first place or thinking outside the box and putting the square peg in the square hole (adjusting his system).

 

All of that has to work against him in terms of being an offensive coach.  His teams are good in transition and the secondary break, I'll give him that.

 

 

He's good at more than just transition. Here is where his teams have ranked nationally in offensive rebounding percentage:

 

2014: 23rd

2013: 7th

2012: 59th

2011: 181st

2010: 89th

2009: 179th

2008: 23rd

2007: 19th

2006: 142nd

2005: 12th

2004: 30th

2003: 6th

 

Outside of his first three years at IU, I think you will be hard pressed to find a coach that has teams ranked that high consistently. As much as his dribble drive like offense tends to offend Hoosier senses, it is a large part of the reason for the high offensive rebounding rates. I am very confident in saying that because outside of this year with an excellent natural rebounder in Noah, Crean's teams have never been anywhere near the top in defensive rebounding. Until this year, he'd never had a team in the top 100 in defensive rebounding percentage.

 

Crean might not be the greatest offensive coach on the planet, but his system does work to generate extra possessions. It's more than just a good in transition system.

[TheStillman 991]

If we're discussing performance of players can people at least get names spelled correct? I've seen Wafford and Vonley written recently when critiquing a player, just tough to take your points seriously when you don't know their names.


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[schoosier 3,480]

No one denies Crean is a good man. He wants to win, graduates players and seems to care about his players (although I question this because of the recent mass exodus and his running off others). The problem that he will not overcome is not winning consistently and big enough. IU should make the NCAA tournament every year and be able to win and compete for championships. He has shown he could not do this at Marquette yet many of us believe he will here. The B1G championship was huge for him to reach but I have said he will never have that kind of talent assembled here ever again. He reached his ceiling here with a B1G championship and two sweet sixteens which were celebrated with rings and banners. So I think he may very well realize his limitations also.

[JSHoosier 20,266]

He's good at more than just transition. Here is where his teams have ranked nationally in offensive rebounding percentage:

 

2014: 23rd

2013: 7th

2012: 59th

2011: 181st

2010: 89th

2009: 179th

2008: 23rd

2007: 19th

2006: 142nd

2005: 12th

2004: 30th

2003: 6th

 

Outside of his first three years at IU, I think you will be hard pressed to find a coach that has teams ranked that high consistently. As much as his dribble drive like offense tends to offend Hoosier senses, it is a large part of the reason for the high offensive rebounding rates. I am very confident in saying that because outside of this year with an excellent natural rebounder in Noah, Crean's teams have never been anywhere near the top in defensive rebounding. Until this year, he'd never had a team in the top 100 in defensive rebounding percentage.

 

Crean might not be the greatest offensive coach on the planet, but his system does work to generate extra possessions. It's more than just a good in transition system.

I still don't think he's as good of an offensive coach as you're giving him credit for, because of the issues I pointed out in my post.  Issues, I might add, that have been present for multiple years with no improvement.  That has to count against him.

 

Just like people wanting to say he's a great recruiter.  Well this team is poorly constructed and classes haven't been balanced (leading to the youth, which people want to use as an excuse to defend him), and both of those have to work against him because it's part of recruiting.

[NotTheReal HoosierHoopster 67]

I'm starting to think Crean is gone after next season. And you know what, I don't cate. That would be seven seasons to build a consistent winner.

Even some of the heavies on the oremie board think it's a one year deal now for Crean and the blood seems to be in the water on the street about him. The Lee decision and now Cunningham backing off are the most recent signs of that.

[Hovadipo 56,266]

[quote name="Hoosier Hoopster" post="55730" timestamp="1396121471"]I'm starting to think Crean is gone after next season. And you know what, I don't cate. That would be seven seasons to build a consistent winner.

Even some of the heavies on the oremie board think it's a one year deal now for Crean and the blood seems to be in the water on the street about him. The Lee decision and now Cunningham backing off are the most recent signs of that.[/quote]

Cunningham backing off? I missed something.


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[lemans71 21]

I don't see how anyone can claim crean is a good offensive coach after watching them this year. Way too many turnovers that didn't improve throughout the season, too many possessions with forced shots with the shot clock winding down or an actual violation, noah wasn't utilized as much as he should have been, and a lot of time yogi looked more like an air traffic director if he would of have two orange lights in his hands. A point guard shouldn't have to spend half the shot clock pointing and telling his teammates where to be. It should be as simple as a yelled out play call by the point guard and get in position and run the dang play. All these points go back to coaching IMO. And before people reply we were young, that excuse is worn out because it seemed as if our young players started to improve as individuals, we never improved much as a team if any.


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[KingPG21 6,584]

I'm starting to think Crean is gone after next season. And you know what, I don't cate. That would be seven seasons to build a consistent winner.

Even some of the heavies on the oremie board think it's a one year deal now for Crean and the blood seems to be in the water on the street about him. The Lee decision and now Cunningham backing off are the most recent signs of that.

Yeah what has indicated that Cunningham is backing off? This is the first place I have seen anything like that

[eddiejsmall 37]

[quote name="Hoosier Hoopster" post="55730" timestamp="1396121471"]I'm starting to think Crean is gone after next season. And you know what, I don't cate. That would be seven seasons to build a consistent winner.

Even some of the heavies on the oremie board think it's a one year deal now for Crean and the blood seems to be in the water on the street about him. The Lee decision and now Cunningham backing off are the most recent signs of that.[/quote]

Trying to find some fact to Cunningham backing off, and haven't found anything? What signs indicate that this is happening?


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