IUWBB vs Lipscomb - Tuesday, 11.04.25 @ 7:00 on B1G+

[Class of '66 Old Fart 94,902]

It was supposed to be a romp and it was.  

 

[mamasa 16,215]

Are Sydney Fenn and Jade Ondineme injured? I figured everyone who could play would’ve 

[TTT 1,543]

Fenn out for season.  Another knee surgery 

[HoosierHoopster 9,190]

45 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

It was supposed to be a romp and it was.  

 

23 fast break and 22 off TOs - yes please

[Class of '66 Old Fart 94,902]

Post-game stories.

https://www.insidethehall.com/2025/11/05/iu-womens-basketball-dominates-season-opener-while-showing-room-to-grow/

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-womens-basketball-three-reasons-the-hoosiers-beat-lipscomb-highlights-stats/

 

[Stuhoo 92,505]

The best part of this game for me? The potential growth of the rotation players could put this same roster into contention for a serious national run:

• Shay C - Senior. But after that?

• Beaumont: Sophomore
• Socka: Sophomore
• Kadlecova: Sophomore
• Caffey: Freshman
• Stotjin: Sophomore
• Makulsky: Freshman

Add three top 75 freshmen to this group next year and retain the current talent? We're gearing up for a Final Four run.

[jermhoosierfan 504]

5 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

The best part of this game for me? The potential growth of the rotation players could put this same roster into contention for a serious national run:

• Shay C - Senior. But after that?

• Beaumont: Sophomore
• Socka: Sophomore
• Kadlecova: Sophomore
• Caffey: Freshman
• Stotjin: Sophomore
• Makulsky: Freshman

Add three top 75 freshmen to this group next year and retain the current talent? We're gearing up for a Final Four run.

Watching the highlights of the game last night, and they look to be much more willing to run.  Could we finally have the 2 basketball teams good at the same time?  I am here for it.

[Stuhoo 92,505]

11 minutes ago, jermhoosierfan said:

Watching the highlights of the game last night, and they look to be much more willing to run.  Could we finally have the 2 basketball teams good at the same time?  I am here for it.

Moren stated that we are much more athletic this year, and now I see it in some very noticable places:

• Zania is infinitely more athletic than Striplin/Meister. Not surprising, but certainly world's different.
• Beaumont is not a monster athlete, but she's significantly more athletic than Garzon.
• Chloe wasn't 'unathletic', but Caffey is quicker and much more physical. It's crazy that an 18 year old is that much stronger than our 5th year captain was. 
• Stotjin is the biggest revelation for me. She is very quick and strong, and she plays with serious swagger. She's like Bargsser's athleticism with a little offense instead of a string of missed layups and cringey shot form. She also looks like she's got a killer on-court attitude. She's basically the sixth starter; this is one really good basketball player.

 

[TTT 1,543]

T. Moren referred to Nevaeh Caffey with toughness and relentlessness who gets it of Nevaeh Caffey beyond her years not a freshman with a deceptive baby face….don’t be fooled.

[TTT 1,543]

3 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

Moren stated that we are much more athletic this year, and now I see it in some very noticable places:

• Zania is infinitely more athletic than Striplin/Meister. Not surprising, but certainly world's different.
• Beaumont is not a monster athlete, but she's significantly more athletic than Garzon.
• Chloe wasn't 'unathletic', but Caffey is quicker and much more physical. It's crazy that an 18 year old is that much stronger than our 5th year captain was. 
• Stotjin is the biggest revelation for me. She is very quick and strong, and she plays with serious swagger. She's like Bargsser's athleticism with a little offense instead of a string of missed layups and cringey shot form. She also looks like she's got a killer on-court attitude. She's basically the sixth starter; this is one really good basketball player.

 

Bargesser scored 22 vs Weber State 11 of 20 fg (0 of 4 3 pointers), 0 for 1 fts, 4 defensive rebounds, 3 assists, 4 turnovers, 3 steals, 2 blocks in 35 minutes. And 1foul.

[Stuhoo 92,505]

26 minutes ago, TTT said:

Bargesser scored 22 vs Weber State 11 of 20 fg (0 of 4 3 pointers), 0 for 1 fts, 4 defensive rebounds, 3 assists, 4 turnovers, 3 steals, 2 blocks in 35 minutes. And 1foul.

I'm not a fan of Bargesser. Moren wanted the team to get more athletic but let the team's best athlete go to a lower level? To me that means it wasn't about NIL. Terri Moren mentions some of the players from last year, but she has never spoken Bargesser's name again. However, Moren has said that there were 'culture problems' on the team last year.

22 points on 20 shots (apparently didn't get to the line) and more turnovers than steals against a cupcake team. That's moderate success on very high volume.

 

[TTT 1,543]

5 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

I'm not a fan of Bargesser. Moren wanted the team to get more athletic but let the team's best athlete go to a lower level? To me that means it wasn't about NIL. Terri Moren mentions some of the players from last year, but she has never spoken Bargesser's name again. However, Moren has said that there were 'culture problems' on the team last year.

22 points on 20 shots (apparently didn't get to the line) and more turnovers than steals against a cupcake team. That's moderate success on very high volume.

 

Bargesser is at a good level for her.  She did make 11 of 16 inside the 3 point line.  I agree moderate success vs low level competition.  Currently, IU Ladies are having strong success vs low level competition.  I look at December 6 as a benchmark measuring stick to see where IU Ladies are at.  At eleven games in there are six games that really don’t say hardly anything.  (They do give repetitions and lots of practice).  However,  Florida State November, Butler, Gonzaga, Florida Gulf Coast, Gonzaga, and Illinois are the first measuring stick 25-26 for expectations for rest of big ten season and beyond……11-0 vs if any losses.

[Aaron 4,667]

18 hours ago, mamasa said:

Pathetic crowd

I warned about this in another thread and its not the ticket distribution. You can easily buy them for a few $$$ on Seatgeek and plenty available higher up. 

This is because a much larger percentage of our fan base then most others is especially front running compared to other college fan bases and this is a massive issue across the board issue when it comes to IU. This is not a problem with people on the board or devout fan, but the number of people in our fan base who refuse to support anything less than a top 5-10 team in that sport is why you see this.

I deal with this everyday with fellow Hoosier fans. Ask other fan bases about their decent postseason squads and if they go and the answer is 'yes'. Ask an IU fan about women's basketball or baseball now and they will tell you they followed them a couple of years ago when they were elite and in Schwarber days respectively. This is not normal behavior from a fan base and generally once a team has great seasons and become elite, a slight fall off to constant postseason squads is enough to maintain a fan base but not at IU.

Until our casual fans change their behavior to mirror what other schools do, you won't see a football stadium expansion or top NIL money available. I am very skeptical yearly eight win Cignetti teams can draw more than 35k as the Mallory years showed and was partially (although not completely) responsible for fall off.

We have a good number of loyal fans (and the people on this board are amongst that), but the amount of casual fans who will maintain their interest for a winning but non-elite squad is much higher than a normal college fan base. My estimates at most schools is its about 60% front running 40% loyal. At IU its 90% front running and 10% loyal. 

Until 30% more casuals like many I know become loyal, this problem isn't going away. We better hope Moren's new elite recruits make them top-10 teams yearly and Cignetti's "next emerging super power" is true. Anything less, like a 20-13 postseason squad or eight win bowl team will not be supported much better than a losing 13-20 or four win football team seen through most of the programs history.  

IU has a serious front-running fan problem that is far greater than most schools and I don't have a good answer as to why, other than it being a very real thing. This 20-win postseason women's team bleeding attendance is unfortunately entirely predictable and would not happen with most other schools.

As an example, Purdue women's elite performance for a half-dozen years giving way to second round tourney exits saw very little fan drop off and even decent support for their awful product now. For IU, one year of 20 wins vs. being elite and you bleed thousands of season ticket holders.

This front-running attitude amongst vast majority of the IU fan base is a very real problem that most IU fans need to look in the mirror and confront. Until then, the necessary revenue to sustain winning across board will go through these 2-5 year elite cycles followed by coaching changes and slow decline.  

I don't take pride in any of this and it sucks, but its a hard truth for diehards like ourselves on this board.

[Pagoda 6,354]

Per the box score attendance was 7.5K last night vs 10k for last season’s opener.  Similar opponent level.  Not great.

[Home Jersey 17,304]

19 minutes ago, Aaron said:

I warned about this in another thread and its not the ticket distribution. You can easily buy them for a few $$$ on Seatgeek and plenty available higher up. 

This is because a much larger percentage of our fan base then most others is especially front running compared to other college fan bases and this is a massive issue across the board issue when it comes to IU. This is not a problem with people on the board or devout fan, but the number of people in our fan base who refuse to support anything less than a top 5-10 team in that sport is why you see this.

I deal with this everyday with fellow Hoosier fans. Ask other fan bases about their decent postseason squads and if they go and the answer is 'yes'. Ask an IU fan about women's basketball or baseball now and they will tell you they followed them a couple of years ago when they were elite and in Schwarber days respectively. This is not normal behavior from a fan base and generally once a team has great seasons and become elite, a slight fall off to constant postseason squads is enough to maintain a fan base but not at IU.

Until our casual fans change their behavior to mirror what other schools do, you won't see a football stadium expansion or top NIL money available. I am very skeptical yearly eight win Cignetti teams can draw more than 35k as the Mallory years showed and was partially (although not completely) responsible for fall off.

We have a good number of loyal fans (and the people on this board are amongst that), but the amount of casual fans who will maintain their interest for a winning but non-elite squad is much lower than a normal college fan base. My estimates at most schools is its about 60% front running 40% loyal. At IU its 90% front running and 10% loyal. 

Until the 30% casuals like many I know become loyal, this problem isn't going away. We better hope Moren's new elite recruits make them top-10 teams yearly and Cignetti's "next emerging super power" is true. Anything less, like a 20-13 postseason squad or eight win bowl team will not be supported much better than a losing 13-20 or four win football team seen through most of the programs history.  

IU has a serious front-running fan problem that is far greater than most schools and I don't have a good answer as to why, other than it being a very real thing. This 20-win postseason women's team bleeding attendance is unfortunately entirely predictable and would not happen with any other schools.

As an example, Purdue women's elite performance for a half-dozen years giving way to second round tourney exits saw very little fan drop off and even decent support for their awful product now. For IU, one year of 20 wins vs. being elite and you bleed thousands of season ticket holders.

This front-running attitude amongst vast majority of the IU fan base is a very real problem that most IU fans need to look in the mirror and confront. Until then, the necessary revenue to sustain winning across board will go through these 2-5 year elite cycles followed by coaching changes and slow decline.  

All due respect... this is quite the extrapolation for a women's basketball game in November vs Lipscomb not having a great crowd. No need to rehash our previous discussion in too much detail...

IMO you can't read anything meaningful from women's basketball into football. Especially in November. 

People like rooting for winners. IU hasn't had winners in a very long time.

I am skeptical we ever see a "yearly eight win Cignetti team" at this rate. That sustained success is what will change behavior. 

There's a lot of competition for attention in general these days. And there are many other popular sports/teams near Bloomington. 

IMO you're never, ever, ever going to transform "30%" of casual fans into loyal ones especially without consistent winning.

You want butts in seats? Earn em. Put a good product on the court/field. That's on the coaches, AD, and admin. 

Fans don't bear responsibility for growing revenue. IU needs to make it worth their while to spend hard earned money on them. Once people are in the habit of doing that, fan support will be way stickier.

Fact is, other than the Knight era and soccer... IU athletics has rarely strung together consistent enough success to earn consistent support from fans who have only X amount of money to spend on entertainment, with a slew of other (often better) options.

Maybe other schools are better about it than we are. Maybe our fans are more fair weather. At the end of the day... they're not accountable for changing that. The school is accountable for winning hearts and minds. 

[TTT 1,543]

20 win seasons are out dated 61% wins when you play 33 games (that’s only a 20 win and 13 loss season/ yes some to good to best teams.  Needs to be updated to 23 or 24 wins.

[Aaron 4,667]

Just now, TTT said:

20 win seasons are out dated 61% wins when you play 33 games (that’s only a 20 win and 13 loss season/ yes some to good to best teams.  Needs to be updated to 23 or 24 wins.

And this attitude proves my point. In any other fan bases world, constant 20 win seasons is celebrated, not asking for more. You are entitled to feel that way but this attitude answers my question in my mind even if some might disagree.

[TTT 1,543]

2 minutes ago, Aaron said:

And this attitude proves my point. In any other fan bases world, constant 20 win seasons is celebrated, not asking for more. You are entitled to feel that way but this attitude answers my question in my mind even if some might disagree.

Or if not 23 or 24 wins….9 losses or less.  And yes no point to prove… that is my attitude.  Hot very interested when playing and winning at high level, to warm always interested when not playing and winning at high level never cold until last few years in men’s basketball because of product.  This is me in my 70s.  Always pretty avid at a younger age win or lose.

[Aaron 4,667]

6 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

All due respect... this is quite the extrapolation for a women's basketball game in November vs Lipscomb not having a great crowd. No need to rehash our previous discussion in too much detail...

IMO you can't read anything meaningful from women's basketball into football. Especially in November. 

People like rooting for winners. IU hasn't had winners in a very long time.

I am skeptical we ever see a "yearly eight win Cignetti team" at this rate. That sustained success is what will change behavior. 

There's a lot of competition for attention in general these days. And there are many other popular sports/teams near Bloomington. 

IMO you're never, ever, ever going to transform "30%" of casual fans into loyal ones especially without consistent winning.

You want butts in seats? Earn em. Put a good product on the court/field. That's on the coaches, AD, and admin. 

Fans don't bear responsibility for growing revenue. IU needs to make it worth their while to spend hard earned money on them. Once people are in the habit of doing that, fan support will be way stickier.

Fact is, other than the Knight era and soccer... IU athletics has rarely strung together consistent enough success to earn consistent support from fans who have only X amount of money to spend on entertainment, with a slew of other (often better) options.

Maybe other schools are better about it than we are. Maybe our fans are more fair weather. At the end of the day... they're not accountable for changing that. The school is accountable for winning hearts and minds. 

Don't disagree with a lot of you are saying. However, it does mean a lot more work to get butts in seats at IU compared to most, hence the empty ones seen last night. 

There is nothing in the women's b-ball product last year that should have caused team to lose roughly 3k of its 8k season ticket holders. No where else loses nearly 40% of its season ticket holders from last years products and generally maintains steady or gains.

Yes its still light years ahead of past, but if you bleed at this number or even half of it over 2-3 more 20 win seasons, it is no higher than Pre-Moren. Hopefully the most front running fans were weeded out, but if a similar season to last loses another 1-2k which is possible my point is well proven. Almost any other school with two 20-win seasons with NCAA appearance with an 8k ticket base would hold steady or gain not shrink by nearly half. Here it is considered a failure and bleeds support.

We need a lot more people in this fan base to stop considering these 20-win seasons (or in football's case 8 wins) not enough. You want long sustained success for a program outside soccer? A big part of it is not losing 40% of a fan base over a top-30 NCAA appearance. You will see my point when next years eight-win 'rebuilding' football season wins 8 games and loses 20-40% of season ticket holders which will absolutely happen here and not anywhere else.

Prove me wrong. I hope I am wrong, but every historical perspective here including with Mallory, and now with women's basketball and more recently baseball, makes me very skeptical you won't lose thousands of ticket holders over a solid season which does not happen elsewhere.

[Aaron 4,667]

Just now, TTT said:

Or if not 23 or 24 wins….9 losses or less.  And yes no point to prove… that is my attitude.  Hot very interested when playing and winning at high level, to warm always interested when not playing and winning at high level never cold until last few years in men’s basketball because of product.  This is me in my 70s.  Always pretty avid at a younger age win or lose.

And you are entitled to that opinion, but it answers why last night was sparse and 3k season ticket holders were lost in offseason. There is a big different between hoping for 23-24 wins and less than 10 losses (which is perfectly acceptable) and considering not getting there with only 20 wins a failure and losing nearly 40% of ticketholders.

This is where problem is. Not "hoping for more' which every rational fan absolutely should and zero reason to lower expectations.