Woodson and the HT on his new roster

[IUFAN1976 4,009]

On 6/5/2024 at 8:38 PM, Stuhoo said:

Besides having “more guards?”

How about having far better guards. The year he had one high-level guard we were a top 20 team.

See my comment above.

[AH1971 1,898]

1 hour ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I am not just talking about last year, never mentioned that.  He has not played 3 guard lineups consistently or at all in his 3 years at IU

He’s never had a collection of 3 guards worth playing together over the alternative in any of the 3 seasons he’s been here. Thought that was obvious?

[MikeRoberts 7,379]

12 hours ago, AH1971 said:

He doesn’t need a personal defender. Just silly to suggest that Mike Woodson needed to run more sets to free up poor shooters such as Galloway and Cupps. I’d maybe see your point if Galloway shot a lot better than 26% from 3 last year, but more shots for Cupps and Galloway and less for Reneau and Ware would have lead to an even worse season.

What are you saying? He constructed and coached a horrible roster?

[MikeRoberts 7,379]

2 hours ago, AH1971 said:

He’s never had a collection of 3 guards worth playing together over the alternative in any of the 3 seasons he’s been here. Thought that was obvious?

He has been here 3 full seasons… that is 100% his fault

[IUFAN1976 4,009]

11 hours ago, AH1971 said:

He’s never had a collection of 3 guards worth playing together over the alternative in any of the 3 seasons he’s been here. Thought that was obvious?

I think MW’s first year or two there was an opportunity to play 3 guards but he just didn’t.  Now were they the caliber of the roster?  No!  But they weren’t horrible and they were serviceable.  

[AZ Hoosier 8,335]

I think MW’s first year or two there was an opportunity to play 3 guards but he just didn’t.  Now were they the caliber of the roster?  No!  But they weren’t horrible and they were serviceable.  

Don’t forget the open scholly last year that also could have helped set Woodson up for the 3-guard play IF he really wanted to move away from the “twin trees inside-out” approach.

[Stuhoo 83,102]

46 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I think MW’s first year or two there was an opportunity to play 3 guards but he just didn’t.  Now were they the caliber of the roster?  No!  But they weren’t horrible and they were serviceable.  

So you would have gone with a three guard set of Xavier Johnson, Parker Stewart, and Rob Phinisee, started Miller Kopp at the four, and left Race Thompson as TJD's backup that year? 

Okay; fair enough. But not sure how that would have improved shooting, lineup talent, or offensive flow.

[AH1971 1,898]

37 minutes ago, AZ Hoosier said:

Don’t forget the open scholly last year that also could have helped set Woodson up for the 3-guard play IF he really wanted to move away from the “twin trees inside-out” approach.

The roster construction totally falls on Woodson, have never steered from that. But you still have to play your best guys. I don't see any three guard lineup from any of the last few years that would have warranted taking Race Thompson or Malik Reneau out of the lineup. 

[IUFAN1976 4,009]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

So you would have gone with a three guard set of Xavier Johnson, Parker Stewart, and Rob Phinisee, started Miller Kopp at the four, and left Race Thompson as TJD's backup that year? 

Okay; fair enough. But not sure how that would have improved shooting, lineup talent, or offensive flow.

No I am not saying that.  That fact that he didn’t occasionally play a 3 guard set is what I was eluding to.  It’s all about matchups and sometimes deception 

[Stuhoo 83,102]

10 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

No I am not saying that.  That fact that he didn’t occasionally play a 3 guard set is what I was eluding to.  It’s all about matchups and sometimes deception 

100% agree that the ability to be flexible and take advantage of matchups is a necessity.

We played some three guard lineups last year. The problem was that the three guards were Cupps, Gallo, and Gunn.(Uggghhh)

Roster construction matters, and leaving those as last year's guard options is a major knock on Woody. I think (hope) that a guard rotation of Gallo, Rice, Carlyle, Cupps, Newton, and Leal gives us the ability to use a smaller lineup without crushing the talent level on the floor.

[IUFAN1976 4,009]

On 6/7/2024 at 12:01 PM, Stuhoo said:

100% agree that the ability to be flexible and take advantage of matchups is a necessity.

We played some three guard lineups last year. The problem was that the three guards were Cupps, Gallo, and Gunn.(Uggghhh)

Roster construction matters, and leaving those as last year's guard options is a major knock on Woody. I think (hope) that a guard rotation of Gallo, Rice, Carlyle, Cupps, Newton, and Leal gives us the ability to use a smaller lineup without crushing the talent level on the floor.

I agree , roster construction has been a problem all 3 years.  Hopefully MW has learned from his mistakes and is now flexible and the amount of NIL money we have available should help that.  I know he has the personnel this year to matchup and create mismatches, I just have to see it to believe, especially when he makes a stupid comment about testing two bigs.  He’s already done that.  I would like to see a lineup where we have an advantage on both ends.

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,112]

Woody might regret not filling roster spot 13. The 5 spot rests in Ballo’s hands, which is great but if we lose him things are going to be rough at the 5. Hard for me not to worry about this. Maybe Hatton can alleviate my concerns but that isn’t going to happen. Bart Torvik and Bossi don’t even know who he is. He’s gonna be overwhelmed by B1G talent. I think the staff is super cocky with this roster and it has a glaring hole in it. BUT I love Ballo, so there’s that.


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[Scotty R 2,513]

22 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Woody might regret not filling roster spot 13. The 5 spot rests in Ballo’s hands, which is great but if we lose him things are going to be rough at the 5. Hard for me not to worry about this. Maybe Hatton can alleviate my concerns but that isn’t going to happen. Bart Torvik and Bossi don’t even know who he is. He’s gonna be overwhelmed by B1G talent. I think the staff is super cocky with this roster and it has a glaring hole in it. BUT I love Ballo, so there’s that.


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Most top programs don't use all 13 scholarships. It sounds like with NIL that it might be harder to get 13 scholarship players. Right now Arkansas only has 9 scholarship players 

[IUFAN1976 4,009]

28 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Woody might regret not filling roster spot 13. The 5 spot rests in Ballo’s hands, which is great but if we lose him things are going to be rough at the 5. Hard for me not to worry about this. Maybe Hatton can alleviate my concerns but that isn’t going to happen. Bart Torvik and Bossi don’t even know who he is. He’s gonna be overwhelmed by B1G talent. I think the staff is super cocky with this roster and it has a glaring hole in it. BUT I love Ballo, so there’s that.


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I’m kind of where you are at too but I think Reneau will shift to the 5, Mgbako to the 4, and we matchup with the 3 if, god forbid, Ballo miss time and Hatton plays backup minutes do Reneau can rest.  That’s the best we can hope for.  Let’s hope, and you haven’t jinxed it, that Ballo doesn’t have any issues!

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,112]

I’m kind of where you are at too but I think Reneau will shift to the 5, Mgbako to the 4, and we matchup with the 3 if, god forbid, Ballo miss time and Hatton plays backup minutes do Reneau can rest.  That’s the best we can hope for.  Let’s hope, and you haven’t jinxed it, that Ballo doesn’t have any issues!

Yeah, probably the way it’ll playout, but Reneau will cap our ceiling as the 5. Doesn’t rebound, block , or defend well enough at the 5. And I love him p. I also understand a lot of teams don’t use 13. But we have some guard overlap of borderline unplayable guys. Thus leaving us short handed with size and rim protection.


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[ebridges24 2,449]

On 6/5/2024 at 11:45 AM, Stuhoo said:

On the other hand, it’s fair to say that Malik Reneau has been a substantially more effective player than Luke Goode, and is likely a substantially more effective player than a freshman Bryson Tucker.

There’s gonna be a square peg in a round hole somewhere on the court if we want to start our best five.

And, Malik has shown the ability to step out and hit the 3. I'm sure he'll get even better.

[ebridges24 2,449]

On 6/5/2024 at 2:35 PM, AH1971 said:

You act like IU, and evidently Purdue, were the only two teams in the country who played two bigs last year. I want to know what fantasy land you are living in? Surround Reneau and Ware last year with competent guards who can dribble and shoot off the bounce and we're a top 25 tournament team the entire year.

Yes, suggesting that playing Ballo and Reneau is a recipe for a ton of losses to top 25 teams considering our major upgrades at the guard position is totally without reason. 

Yes, surround Malik and Ballo with 3 really good guards and wings and you'll see a very successful team.

[ebridges24 2,449]

On 6/5/2024 at 8:34 PM, IUFAN1976 said:

I don’t have confidence that Woodson will do that plenty of times next season.  In his 3 years, he’s not done it plenty of times in past.  Besides having more guards, what makes you think he will do it plenty of times next season?  

Have we even had 3 guards good enough to play at the same time in our recent past? Seriously, have we?

[DChoosier 8,976]

14 hours ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Woody might regret not filling roster spot 13. The 5 spot rests in Ballo’s hands, which is great but if we lose him things are going to be rough at the 5. Hard for me not to worry about this. Maybe Hatton can alleviate my concerns but that isn’t going to happen. Bart Torvik and Bossi don’t even know who he is. He’s gonna be overwhelmed by B1G talent. I think the staff is super cocky with this roster and it has a glaring hole in it. BUT I love Ballo, so there’s that.


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I agree with you in theory but question who we could get, in slot 13, that would be good enough to even see the floor if Ballo went down.  We just don’t have a desirable role to sell (hey, you can sit behind Ballo, MR and possibly Hatton) and getting a guy last year with seemingly good credentials, Sparks, certainly didn’t help. As others mentioned MR would play the five, Hatton would get some time and we probably would also chicken-wire some sort of small ball lineups.

Last year I was full on in favor of filling the last scholarship with a shooter as it was a need that was so glaring you would have thought the coaches could have sold a “role” to someone with some offensive perimeter skills. This season I just don’t think a quality big will buy what we have to sell (ie being an “open in case of emergency” option).

[WayneFleekHoosier 49,112]

3 hours ago, DChoosier said:

I agree with you in theory but question who we could get, in slot 13, that would be good enough to even see the floor if Ballo went down.  We just don’t have a desirable role to sell (hey, you can sit behind Ballo, MR and possibly Hatton) and getting a guy last year with seemingly good credentials, Sparks, certainly didn’t help. As others mentioned MR would play the five, Hatton would get some time and we probably would also chicken-wire some sort of small ball lineups.

Last year I was full on in favor of filling the last scholarship with a shooter as it was a need that was so glaring you would have thought the coaches could have sold a “role” to someone with some offensive perimeter skills. This season I just don’t think a quality big will buy what we have to sell (ie being an “open in case of emergency” option).

A Flory Bidunga type or less freshman in the Hatton spot.  He’s only going to play 15 min or less at Kansas. 
 

The debate is a talented freshman vs Hatton.

JHS was the guard equivalent. He was going to be more of a 6th man.  Injury gave him a chance and he had it.  High ceiling young guy.