Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[Hoosierfan2017 20,136]

10 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

We didn't bring back Mgbako and pay a boatload to get Carlyle and Rice to run the same offense. Signing Ballo who isn't a high usage big like TJD or Ware further reinforces this notion. 

You dont go spend a million dollars on a center to run your fourth straight two big season if you’re going to drastically change your offense. Ware had a usage percentage of 22.9% last year. Ballo had a usage percentage of 21% last year and 22.9% the year before. Ware took 13.3 shots per 40 minutes last year to Ballo’s 12.0. 

So, sure, slightly less usage, but not *increase your 3 point attempts by 50%* less usage. IU was dead last in 3 point attempts in the Big 10 last year. The 13th place school shot 2.4 more a game than us. We’re not going to suddenly become a top 3 team in the conference in shooting 3s. 

[Hovadipo 53,378]

38 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Name your charity

 

15 minutes ago, Juwan Moye said:

Mayo Clinic (tried a handshake emoji but it’s not allowed)

 

13 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Got it. Will send you PM at the conclusion of the season with instructions on where/how to send. 

Autism Society of Indiana in honor my stepson. 

Gotta say, this is one of my favorite exchanges on this board in a while.

[AH1971 1,186]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

You dont go spend a million dollars on a center to run your fourth straight two big season if you’re going to drastically change your offense. Ware had a usage percentage of 22.9% last year. Ballo had a usage percentage of 21% last year and 22.9% the year before. Ware took 13.3 shots per 40 minutes last year to Ballo’s 12.0. 

So, sure, slightly less usage, but not *increase your 3 point attempts by 50%* less usage. IU was dead last in 3 point attempts in the Big 10 last year. The 13th place school shot 2.4 more a game than us. We’re not going to suddenly become a top 3 team in the conference in shooting 3s. 

His shots were on lobs and put back dunks/offensive rebounds. He's a 25-27 mpg guy. He's not going to be force fed every time down. That is not nor has ever been his game. 

[Feathery 4,005]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

You dont go spend a million dollars on a center to run your fourth straight two big season if you’re going to drastically change your offense. Ware had a usage percentage of 22.9% last year. Ballo had a usage percentage of 21% last year and 22.9% the year before. Ware took 13.3 shots per 40 minutes last year to Ballo’s 12.0. 

So, sure, slightly less usage, but not *increase your 3 point attempts by 50%* less usage. IU was dead last in 3 point attempts in the Big 10 last year. The 13th place school shot 2.4 more a game than us. We’re not going to suddenly become a top 3 team in the conference in shooting 3s. 

Its 3pt ability over system. The players last year passed up a lot of 3’s per game. It wasn’t bc the coaches said don’t shoot it. It was the players passing them up on their own bc they were not comfortable shooting them. 

[IU Prof 735]

Just now, Feathery said:

Its 3pt ability over system. The players last year passed up a lot of 3’s per game. It wasn’t bc the coaches said don’t shoot it. It was the players passing them up on their own bc they were not comfortable shooting them. 

Why did we shoot the same number of threes per game the year before too, then, with Kopp, JHS, and Galloway at 46%?

[AH1971 1,186]

7 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Yeah Mgbako will shoot more 3’s. He was already averaging shooting more than 4 3’s a game. I could see him shooting 6-7 a game. Carlyle 4.3 3 pt attempts a game. Rice averaged 3.7 attempts per game. Both Carlyle and Rice should project to shoot at least 1-2 more per game coming off their freshmen years. 
 

To contrast Cupps and Galloway were the starters last year and seem to be coming off the bench. So we shouldn’t see an increase in their 3 pt attempts. Galloway averaged 0.8 attempts from 3 last season. Cupps averaged 0.4 attempts from distance. Without any increases or decreases Carlyle and Rice averaged 6.8 more attempts than Cupps and Galloway. That isn’t bc of the offense it’s bc of ability. 
 

just the increase in attempts the new backcourt is bringing in, IU should increase from 15 attempts a game from last season to 21.8 attempts a game. That doesn’t include any increase from Mgbako. 

I think this is a fair breakdown on attempts:

Mgbako: 6.5-7.5

Rice: 4.5-5.5

Carlyle: 5.5-6

That's 16.5-18.5 attempts between 3 players. Between Galloway, Tucker, Reneau, and whatever stretch 4 the staff brings in; they make up the other 3.5-5.5 attempts. Actually wouldn't be surprised if IU ended up shooting more than 22 a game. 

[AH1971 1,186]

14 minutes ago, IU Prof said:

Why did we shoot the same number of threes per game the year before too, then, with Kopp, JHS, and Galloway at 46%?

Because Galloway isn't a volume shooter even if he shot it at 70%. He cannot shoot off the bounce. Neither could Miller Kopp.

[Feathery 4,005]

Just now, IU Prof said:

Why did we shoot the same number of threes per game the year before too, then, with Kopp, JHS, and Galloway at 46%?

Galloway 46% was on low volume so the stat is skewed.  He was also forced into a PG role he wasn’t comfortable with and his shooting suffered.  He did shoot more 3’s this year than the year he averaged 46%, but that % dropped to 26%. Many of those misses were wide open as well. 
 

Top 3 shooters by attempts per game were Shifino, Kopp, and Tamar Bates. To replace those we had Galloway (see above), Cupps, and Gunn. That’s a downgrade in shooting giving the situation the team had last year. To attempt the same amount per game given the drop in talent is a sign that the coaches were saying no don’t shoot it or it’s the system. Ppl want to hammer Woody for saying it wasn’t his job to get Kopp shots. But the system does provide many open 3’s that players just didn’t take. This team can easily shoot over 20 3’s without playing outside of the system. That puts them in line with Purdue this last year who had a post dominant team. 

[Hoosierfan2017 20,136]

22 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Its 3pt ability over system. The players last year passed up a lot of 3’s per game. It wasn’t bc the coaches said don’t shoot it. It was the players passing them up on their own bc they were not comfortable shooting them. 

It’s 100% the system. IU took 15.5 threes a game in 2022 and only 14.0 threes a game in conference play despite having four rotation players shoot 37% or higher from 3. In fact, IU was actually third in the Big 10 at 38% from 3. But, as Woodson said, it’s not his job to get players 3 point shots. Are we really supposed to believe Woodson is going to completely overhaul his offensive system? Even when his team had 3pt ability his team was dead last in the Big 10 in attempts. 

[Chris007 42,669]

Does adding Luke Goode make the 3 pt numbers go up?

[Feathery 4,005]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

It’s 100% the system. IU took 15.5 threes a game in 2022 and only 14.0 threes a game in conference play despite having four rotation players shoot 37% or higher from 3. In fact, IU was actually third in the Big 10 at 38% from 3. But, as Woodson said, it’s not his job to get players 3 point shots. Are we really supposed to believe Woodson is going to completely overhaul his offensive system? Even when his team had 3pt ability his team was dead last in the Big 10 in attempts. 

We can agree to disagree. His system gets players open shots. It’s the PLAYERS passing them up. Why would he design a new offense to get them more open 3’s when they already pass up on the ones the system provides? 
 

I think there are plenty of things to complain about Woodson for. I’d argue not having a stretch 4 and roster construction would be at the top. Players passing up on open 3’s and verbally saying the coaches aren’t holding them back from shooting 3’s is not something to peg on Woody or his system. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,204]

2 minutes ago, Chris007 said:

Does adding Luke Goode make the 3 pt numbers go up?

How much does he play?  Is he getting 15 min per game?  Taking 2-3 a game?  

This addition should make Stuhoo happy, he's wanted him from day 1.  

He's a tough kid.  A really good high school quarterback.  I really, really like this addition but i'll be curious where and how often he plays.  

[AH1971 1,186]

13 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

It’s 100% the system. IU took 15.5 threes a game in 2022 and only 14.0 threes a game in conference play despite having four rotation players shoot 37% or higher from 3. In fact, IU was actually third in the Big 10 at 38% from 3. But, as Woodson said, it’s not his job to get players 3 point shots. Are we really supposed to believe Woodson is going to completely overhaul his offensive system? Even when his team had 3pt ability his team was dead last in the Big 10 in attempts. 

Again, 38% on low volume lol. Galloway, Cupps, Xavier Johnson, and Leal are only taking 3 pointers with their feet set and nobody guarding them. That was the core of our back court last season. Mgbako was the one guy on the roster last year who could consistently get off a 3 point shot on the move or off the bounce. It isn't hard to understand that personnel dictates strategy. 

[Hornsby 1,637]

How much does he play?  Is he getting 15 min per game?  Taking 2-3 a game?  
This addition should make Stuhoo happy, he's wanted him from day 1.  
He's a tough kid.  A really good high school quarterback.  I really, really like this addition but i'll be curious where and how often he plays.  

Good player but what is that now like 8 guards. Only so many minutes per game to hand out

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[Hornsby 1,637]

Does adding Luke Goode make the 3 pt numbers go up?

Where does he get minutes?

Galloway
Tucker
Rice
Mm
Carlyle

They will all likely be above him.

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[Chris007 42,669]

1 minute ago, Hornsby said:

Where does he get minutes?

Galloway
Tucker
Rice
Mm
Carlyle

They will all likely be above him.

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I'll take him over Tucker any day of the week. He's a senior who has played in big games. Also he'll play for Mgbako when he is in foul trouble for guarding someone quicker

[Hoosierfan2017 20,136]

9 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Again, 38% on low volume lol. Galloway, Cupps, Xavier Johnson, and Leal are only taking 3 pointers with their feet set and nobody guarding them. That was the core of our back court last season. Mgbako was the one guy on the roster last year who could consistently get off a 3 point shot on the move or off the bounce. It isn't hard to understand that personnel dictates strategy. 

What are you talking about? Neither Cupps nor Mgbako were even on the team in 2022, and Anthony Leal played 24 minutes all season. If you as a team shoot 38% from 3 then you have enough shooting ability on your team to take more 3s. There was no reason why Miller Kopp shouldn’t have been taking 6-7 3s a game in 2022. 

We have three years of evidence of Mike Woodson not emphasizing the 3 ball but we’re supposed to believe he’s suddenly going to change and IU will be firing away because ‘just trust me bro.’ Like cmon. 

[Hornsby 1,637]

I'll take him over Tucker any day of the week. He's a senior who has played in big games. Also he'll play for Mgbako when he is in foul trouble for guarding someone quicker

True but I thought tucker came here to start or play heavy minutes. Kind of surprised Goode would want such a small role he could start at lots of programs

 

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[Chris007 42,669]

Just now, Hornsby said:

True but I thought tucker came here to start or play heavy minutes.

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When he came here he might have thought or been told that but there is no way he's getting that anymore. Someone said his dad has been telling people he needed two years of college. Either way he's going to be paid nicely

[iu eyedoc 1,684]

12 hours ago, AH1971 said:

I’ll bet anything Reneau’s production stagnates if not dips with a better back court. He’s going to be playing out more on the perimeter anyway so I’m not worried about force him every possession, just more paranoia. 
 

 

56 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

My caveat for having a top 15 offense is Rice and Carlyle shooting bare minimum 35% from 3 on volume. That also includes Mgbako duplicating his conference stats from last season. Throw in Ballo and Reneau who are almost automatic at the rim and that's a top 15 KenPom effcieint offense. When you have 3 guys playing the bulk of the minutes shooting 35%+ from 3 on volume you're going to have an efficient offense. Can't explain it any more clearly than that. 

So is Reneau going to stagnate on the perimeter or is he going to be Mr Automatic at the rim? Your contradictions confuse me

46 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

7.5-8.5 makes on 22-25 attempts. 

Hell, If IU had made 8 3's on their 15.5 shot attempts  per game last season, shooting an NCAA record 51% from 3, adding 9 pts per 100 possessions their ORtg would still only have been 43rd and their kenpom would have 20th.

How do you not understand any volume of 35% 3pt shooting is not going to improve the offensive efficiency rating, if anything it will become even worse and the defense will suffer from easy run out buckets.