(2025) - SF Joson Sanon to Arizona State

[Maedhros 627]

This is perhaps what you risk with this coaching hire. Mike Woodson:

• is 65, having spent a lifetime in a world where college players can't receive payment for their services
• played under Bob Knight, who was famously outspoken against schools that violated this norm
• was a star player himself who presumably did not receive compensation for his talent while still in school
• still made millions in his career as an NBA player and coach

None of this suggests a coach who is going to be forward thinking about the new realities of college sports. There was talk early that Woodson would be comfortable in this environment having dealt with free agency in the NBA. But in that world nobody bats an eye if a player's camp asks for as much money as they think they can get. Why balk when the Sanon family does the same?

Zion Williamson's family is well-known to have received a new house. Duke got a NPOY in the exchange. And that was before NIL was even a thing. If you're going to keep targeting Top 15 kids, almost to a fault, these are the waters in which you might have to swim. Matt Painter gets to talk about recruiting guys to his system, who want to be there and are willing to work. Purdue also does most of their recruiting outside of the top 80.

Perhaps the pause in the Sanon recruitment is just a negotiating tactic. I hope so. Because I can't imagine prioritizing instant impact guys, then backing off when their camp asks for money, is going to be an effective strategy on the recruiting trail.

[Chris007 43,556]

10 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

I have said this a few times. Even if you don’t think I have any info…. Just use some logic.

Woody said this more than once - paraphrasing  - “I don’t do the NIL talk. I want guys who want to be here. I tell them how much other guys have made and they know they can do well here but I have no interest in kids where that is a priority. I also don’t guarantee things - you come in, you work, you want to do the work, all will work itself out.”

when you see guys like Daquan, Sanon, Love, etc go from hot to cold fast, it is handlers and/or parents pushing for lots of guarantees. Some school will do it, Woody won’t. 

Ware demanded a certain amount of NIL before he would even visit IU. So I think Woody belives what you said, he said, there are exceptions. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 83,823]

Other than Trilly giving us a mention, looks like this one is over.

 

[HoosierTrav 7,729]

6 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

I think Woody's philosophy is, "Come here to play and learn basketball and get an education. And while you're here? When you get paid really well that's your good news, not my business."

Trying to avoid the Shannon Sharpe "I'll go wherever they pay me best" attitude.

I'm with Woody. It's part of building a team; not individuals with a "get mine" attitude on and off the court.

I’d have an easier time getting on board, with this philosophy,  if the teams/coaches who regularly acquiesce to these player demands weren’t winning. It’s always the teams we are trying to get to their level that get most of these kids.
 

Woody said he wanted a seat at the table. Well this is what’s on the menu with many of these players. Maybe we should be sitting at different tables? 
 

I’m having a hard time finding an issue with offering playing time and a “bag” to a player of Joson Sanon’s caliber, when we know what we have at his position currently. I feel like Woody’s position here can use a little more flexibility and situational discretion. 

 

[Home Jersey 6,532]

I hope we're willing to promise minutes and money to portal guards, since this one looks over. 

I understand not wanting to make such promises out of principle/as a standard mode of operating... but when you've got roster holes like ours, I don't think there's huge risk in making a "promise" to a high-level impact backcourt player. Odds are nobody on the roster will be able to push them for very big minutes, so you're not going to end up somehow "lying" to the kid. A lot worse goes on in recruiting. 

It's not letting a kid/their handlers come into your program and dictate terms to you if you're desperate for what they offer. You're shopping and they're selling. Just a mutually beneficial business opportunity. Allocate your investment accordingly and play ball.  

Seems like we did it for Ware if he needed a number before even visiting. Obviously we'll never have all the info so certainly is info we don't have that is specific to each nuanced situation like this particular recruitment... but how are we not doing the same for a stud guard given the state of our current roster?

Must be something about Sanon/his camp turning off the staff, fine. But let's not be overly picky about those things when it's portal season then. There should be plenty of dry powder, you'd hope... Now... if we don't have the $ for a player like Sanon... that is a different problem. 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,667]

1 minute ago, HoosierTrav said:

I’d have an easier time getting on board, with this philosophy,  if the teams/coaches who regularly acquiesce to these player demands weren’t winning. It’s always the teams we are trying to get to their level that get most of these kids.
 

Woody said he wanted a seat at the table. Well this is what’s on the menu with many of these players. Maybe we should be sitting at different tables? 
 

I’m having a hard time finding an issue with offering playing time and a “bag” to a player of Joson Sanon’s caliber, when we know what we have at his position currently. I feel like Woody’s position here can use a little more flexibility and situational discretion. 

 

I'm sure there are plenty of coaches who make promises regarding NIL and playing time, and I'm sure it works. But outside of Woody, I can quickly think of one coach who has been on record saying something to the effect of if NIL is a player's top priority, the conversation ends there. Dan Hurley. He's not messing around with players who have NIL demands, he wants players who want to be there playing at UConn, and the NIL stuff will work itself out. I'd say he's doing well with his philosophy. Only pointing out here that there is a very relevant and successful example of Woody's general philosophy in this area working out quite well.

[Home Jersey 6,532]

6 minutes ago, NashvilleHoosier said:

I'm sure there are plenty of coaches who make promises regarding NIL and playing time, and I'm sure it works. But outside of Woody, I can quickly think of one coach who has been on record saying something to the effect of if NIL is a player's top priority, the conversation ends there. Dan Hurley. He's not messing around with players who have NIL demands, he wants players who want to be there playing at UConn, and the NIL stuff will work itself out. I'd say he's doing well with his philosophy. Only pointing out here that there is a very relevant and successful example of Woody's general philosophy in this area working out quite well.

... This may be where the similarities between Dan Hurley and Mike Woodson begin and end, though. Haha. 

I think that's purely a coincidentally shared view they have and does not speak to any similarities in their approach for running a program. Those UConn boys are getting paid too. Case in point? Cam Spencer. Literally an NIL mercenary. Hurley, like all coaches, likes to paint a certain picture...

[Uspshoosier 44,981]

https://x.com/trillydonovan/status/1750596132559032556?s=46

[Chris007 43,556]

22 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

https://x.com/trillydonovan/status/1750596132559032556?s=46

That was creepy 

[NashvilleHoosier 3,667]

33 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

... This may be where the similarities between Dan Hurley and Mike Woodson begin and end, though. Haha. 

I think that's purely a coincidentally shared view they have and does not speak to any similarities in their approach for running a program. Those UConn boys are getting paid too. Case in point? Cam Spencer. Literally an NIL mercenary. Hurley, like all coaches, likes to paint a certain picture...

I'm not comparing the two coaches. Just their general approach to NIL and players making it priority #1. Hurley's been pretty vocal about it. Whether he came off of that approach for Spencer? Maybe, I don't know. I agree there probably aren't many similarities between the two coaches. I was only responding to the general sentiment that we need to be going after players that have NIL requirements up front, etc, and giving a pretty real example to counter that.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,920]

Yeah this one is over. Trilly doing videos isn’t his thing.  Pretty cringy. 

obviously a reclass. Kansas would be frustrating.  

[Home Jersey 6,532]

55 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

I think people are taking this the wrong way. Assuming a negative . Woody must be doing this wrong too. This is my general problem with much of the fan base now. 

His attitude and approach worked just fine for Malik, Ware, JHS, Mgbako, McNeeley, Queen, etc

All that is being said is Sanon, Daquan, Love types are a little too interested in money, guarantees etc. It is a feeling like “I don’t want this headache” - Any coach of high level players knows what this means. 

Totally know what you mean about the headache. 

At the same time, with roster construction and the backcourt specifically being problems that Woody owns, it's fair for fans to question his approach to the recruitment of guards specifically. So it's not IMO that people are viewing it as just one more thing Woody is doing wrong, but concern about how we're going to address the elephant in the room. Landing stud guards would be a very impactful way for Woody to reinvigorate some energy from the fans (not that he's particularly interested in that) but more importantly it's what he needs to actually compete.

So it won't work out with Sanon because of his handlers/demands? In this instance, fine, I guess. But we best have confidence in our ability to land strong options in the portal, who are also likely to have a set of demands. Albeit as more of a known quantity. If you aren't willing to deal with any headaches, ever, coaching is absolutely not the profession for you. 

I'm not saying that as someone who is jonesing to get Woody out the door. But as someone who wants us to address the biggest challenge facing this team. I'm sure he wants that more than anyone... just hope their strategy pays off in the portal/spring. For now we don't have any momentum on the recruiting trail to track and a poor product on the court, so this discourse is to be expected. Only way it changes is when we start winning more games or if we land some studs for next year. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,920]

Still are not getting it my man. 

Of course portal, any recruit etc will have demands. This has nothing to do with Woody’s approach. 

You sometimes run across families and “camps” that are just not worth it. Some coaches may take more of a flyer smart coaches will not. Simple. people are using this now make this “a thing.”  Lot of conjecture in many of those statements above. Lot of it having nothing to do with this. This while continuing to ignore all the top guys his approach has worked fine for.

They learned some lessons this last year.  Lot of coaches did. Portal is still new. Been stated by lots and lots of people. If IU didn’t have 20+ years of failure, that wouldn’t be a big deal. People would not love, but be ok with a down year. However, those years are making everything carry more weight than it should. 

One guard takes the bait last portal season and 90% of this stuff is not even a conversation and not just talking recruiting.  It all seems a little bit dramatic. My personal opinion. 

This is such a bad take full of what ifs. “Smart” coaches? Apparently Does Not equal winning coaches because Calipari dances with the devil every recruiting cycle and wins. Kansas does the same. Others….

 

“One guard takes the bait”. That’s called Woody not valuing his roster properly and thinking he has enough with X and Trey and Gunn. That’s not Woody being smart. That’s Woody making a massive mistake with internally giving his own guys all the projected minutes. That’s Woody falling for X and not seeing what he’s done throughout career.

 

But the elephant in the room is Woody’s playing style is going to make EVERYTHING harder than necessary. It might not matter who he gets unless he gets a 4th year TJD. And even that season was underwhelming with a absolute superstar player with little pieces around him.

 

 

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[Home Jersey 6,532]

24 minutes ago, Ngw7183 said:

Still are not getting it my man. 

Of course portal, any recruit etc will have demands. This has nothing to do with Woody’s approach. 

You sometimes run across families and “camps” that are just not worth it. Some coaches may take more of a flyer smart coaches will not. Simple. people are using this now make this “a thing.”  Lot of conjecture in many of those statements above. Lot of it having nothing to do with this. This while continuing to ignore all the top guys his approach has worked fine for.

They learned some lessons this last year.  Lot of coaches did. Portal is still new. Been stated by lots and lots of people. If IU didn’t have 20+ years of failure, that wouldn’t be a big deal. People would not love, but be ok with a down year. However, those years are making everything carry more weight than it should. 

One guard takes the bait last portal season and 90% of this stuff is not even a conversation and not just talking recruiting.  It all seems a little bit dramatic. My personal opinion. 

What did I say that was conjecture? I guess I am not getting it because I don't see what the last 20+ years of failure has to do with us needing 2, maybe 3 new guards on next year's roster. Respectfully, I only see conjecture in your last statement (which I happen to agree with but we'll never know because we didn't go get a guard). 

We're in agreement there will be camps/families you don't want to deal with. The very talented players usually do have some level of that around them. There must be some way they assess who is worth dealing with... vibes are probably a big part of that. But there's no denying we need backcourt play. If you don't want to commit to a kid like Sanon for his baggage, as I said, fine... but with our backcourt situation, there's no denying the approach is to rely on the spring period/transfer portal. That also may be fine, but again, bit of a risk if you can make a promise and land a fish like Sanon.

No doubt there will be opportunities to do that. Will they have more or less baggage? Can we convert those opportunities? We shall see. They very well may be better options with more experience under their belt. It could work out great. Just gotta wait..... I guess?

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,920]

What did I say that was conjecture? I guess I am not getting it because I don't see what the last 20+ years of failure has to do with us needing 2, maybe 3 new guards on next year's roster. Respectfully, I only see conjecture in your last statement (which I happen to agree with but we'll never know because we didn't go get a guard). 
We're in agreement there will be camps/families you don't want to deal with. The very talented players usually do have some level of that around them. There must be some way they assess who is worth dealing with... vibes are probably a big part of that. But there's no denying we need backcourt play. If you don't want to commit to a kid like Sanon for his baggage, as I said, fine... but with our backcourt situation, there's no denying the approach is to rely on the spring period/transfer portal. That also may be fine, but again, bit of a risk if you can make a promise and land a fish like Sanon.
No doubt there will be opportunities to do that. Will they have more or less baggage? Can we convert those opportunities? We shall see. They very well may be better options with more experience under their belt. It could work out great. Just gotta wait..... I guess?

If the kid with baggage (camp with demands) is good enough to warrant starting minutes on a winning team everyone wins.

Now getting a kid like that, that doesn’t warrant the PT that’s a misssed scout and a nightmare.

I DO want kids that WANT to win. I don’t care about money, PT, etc. all that stuff will work itself out if you get kids that want to win with talent to win.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 47,920]

Disagree greatly with your first sentence. I have seen lots of kids with baggage, crazy parents, etc derail a team. No matter how good they are. Good coaches know how to sniff those out and avoid them. 

You are inferring Woody is a good coach. Good coaches get good players to play together as a team and win games. Those PLAYING while WINNING are have a great time. It’s the strategy of having a good self promoting program.

I understand the concept of a cancer in team sports but there is a fine line on todays recruiting demands and what you are referencing.

If our staff had demonstrated they know what they are doing, you can just blindly trust these decisions. But they misevaluated existing talent and recruited talent so badly this year they lose the benefit of the doubt. In addition, our team chemistry is poor this season anyway, so whatever they are trying to accomplish isn’t working anyway.

The nice thing is they can scrap it, and try again next year and learn some things. We’ll see how that pans out.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 47,920]

I just don’t think one has anything to do with the other. You can make a mistake or even be inherently bad at roster construction but still sniff out “issues.”  
you inferring roster chemistry is poor, based on what? Them losing and being tired of being booed at home? Looking frustrated? Maybe they should smile and be told they don’t care? 
I have seen guys cheering like crazy, picking each other up, pats on the back, etc. This is exactly what I mean when I say fans are inserting a lot of their feelings and turning things into facts. 
find me a source, I would even accept Chris, that says roster chemistry is an issue. Lack of leadership I buy but not the topic. 
You can be upset about roster construction and it not mean Woody doesn’t not how to evaluate potential issues - fyi… more than IU is backing off Sanon. Not everything a recruit posts is 100% truth.  Maybe their tune changes or maybe it is Emomi Bates level. 
I think if we were taking about this in person, we would mostly agree FWIW

I don’t particularly care about Sanon whatsoever. I just want a coach who has an identity, knows what he wants, knows how to win, and demonstrates it. I think if your coach is chasing 5 star freshman as his primary recruiting effort, they better get used to massaging egos of the player and their camp.

Lots of ways to win, find one and excel at it. Woody is throwing darts at the board. Figuring out the college landscape and a changing recruiting landscape all at the same time. And not appearing to be excelling at any of it.

As far as chemistry. It’s the bench often times. It’s the hustle plays for each other. I agree it’s hard to judge because we stink and everyone is depressed but that complicates chemistry as well. We aren’t one, that is for sure. We’ve got mixed agendas on this roster and low overall IQ. The booing is synonymous with bad teams and bad play. I don’t love it, it’s not my style, but as an Indiana player you know the expectations. Getting blitzed by Purdue at home by 20+ is going to bring out the boo birds. Shooting under 50% from free throw might too. These aren’t wild expectations.


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[Maedhros 627]

13 hours ago, Ngw7183 said:

I think people are taking this the wrong way. Assuming a negative . Woody must be doing this wrong too. This is my general problem with much of the fan base now. 

His attitude and approach worked just fine for Malik, Ware, JHS, Mgbako, McNeeley, Queen, etc

All that is being said is Sanon, Daquan, Love types are a little too interested in money, guarantees etc. It is a feeling like “I don’t want this headache” - Any coach of high level players knows what this means. 

Quoting this post, for being the most concisely stated, lol.

I generally agree with your larger point, that fans have become quick to find fault in damn near everything. Something must be done. Landing a top guard like Sanon is certainly something. Therefore, it must be done. This isn't a smart approach for every individual recruit. But there's a larger trend that's not nothing.

With Sanon, and Davis, I think you're begging the question. We don't know if they're too interested in money, guarantees, or are just bad eggs. Sanon could be asking for the moon, but that didn't scare off Kansas, recent national champion, preseason number one, and the most consistent program of the last 40 years. Davis visited Shrewsberry at Notre Dame before committing to Kim English at Providence. He's still ranked outside the top 100. Doesn't seem like he's one to be asking for a bundle. Maybe his is an attitude thing, but that's something I can't know.

What I do know is we backed off Coen Carr, only for him to be snatched up by Michigan State and Tom Izzo, the most accomplished coach in the Big Ten. We backed off Jaeden Mustaf, whose weakness is admittedly shooting, but a 6'5" CG who does everything else well sounds awfully useful. 

It's not that Sanon, and Davis, are make or break for Woodson. It's that I have no idea what the plan is at the position. We (ostensibly) went all in on Fland, missed that one too, but had no other targets left on the board. Now two names have surfaced, yet we've backed off both of them as well. What's the strategy here? I could trust that Woodson is sagely avoiding potential headaches if I could see the vision, but right now I just don't.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 83,823]

Almost like we're in Vegas and we're down but we know the next roll of the dice will be our big winner.

[WayneFleekHoosier 47,920]

59 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

Quoting this post, for being the most concisely stated, lol.

I generally agree with your larger point, that fans have become quick to find fault in damn near everything. Something must be done. Landing a top guard like Sanon is certainly something. Therefore, it must be done. This isn't a smart approach for every individual recruit. But there's a larger trend that's not nothing.

With Sanon, and Davis, I think you're begging the question. We don't know if they're too interested in money, guarantees, or are just bad eggs. Sanon could be asking for the moon, but that didn't scare off Kansas, recent national champion, preseason number one, and the most consistent program of the last 40 years. Davis visited Shrewsberry at Notre Dame before committing to Kim English at Providence. He's still ranked outside the top 100. Doesn't seem like he's one to be asking for a bundle. Maybe his is an attitude thing, but that's something I can't know.

What I do know is we backed off Coen Carr, only for him to be snatched up by Michigan State and Tom Izzo, the most accomplished coach in the Big Ten. We backed off Jaeden Mustaf, whose weakness is admittedly shooting, but a 6'5" CG who does everything else well sounds awfully useful. 

It's not that Sanon, and Davis, are make or break for Woodson. It's that I have no idea what the plan is at the position. We (ostensibly) went all in on Fland, missed that one too, but had no other targets left on the board. Now two names have surfaced, yet we've backed off both of them as well. What's the strategy here? I could trust that Woodson is sagely avoiding potential headaches if I could see the vision, but right now I just don't.

It seems to me at least the vision is to hold until portal season and hit a Homer.  I mean, in general I love that. Mature guards with experience.  But they had X on the roster for 3 years and thought he was the answer.  This entire board knew we needed a Great guard in this last portal to complete this team, yet…..

 

My faith in their selection and usage is way down.  I’m not sure who or where the next can’t miss thing is, but this staff needs to find it.   And it better not be Connor Essegian if they are truly trying to win.