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Stuhoo

IU Basketball News and Notes

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1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Calipari would have pounded every team we had under Archie (save the Covid year team)  Archie wasn’t interested in trying to test Indiana vs the best. He knew. I love Woodson trying to make Indiana top shelf. Just hope he can get the talent to keep it competive.  We’ve watched IU/Duke enough in the challenge to see what happens when top talent faces Indiana.  As much as everyone disagrees, we have a lot of work to be a top team next year. Not exactly sure what the plan is, but if he is scheduling Kentucky he must feel good about it. Also, it’s a giant money grab game, one of the biggest. 
 

 

But you’re only talking about IU under CAM, that’s not representative. As Scott pointed out we were beating UK (and the tourney game we lost with Vic was when they hit almost every free throw and iirc Vic fouled out). We were bad on all fronts under CAM, that’s over.

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3 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

But you’re only talking about IU under CAM, that’s not representative. As Scott pointed out we were beating UK (and the tourney game we lost with Vic was when they hit almost every free throw and iirc Vic fouled out). We were bad on all fronts under CAM, that’s over.

And during Calipari‘s four Archie years, Kentucky underachieved relative to their preseason ranking in a major way every single year. They weren’t bad except for one year (which was far worse than anything Archie did), but they also weren’t special. They were about Iowa good.

Kentucky did manage to win the battle of preseason polls every one of Archie‘s years.

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12 hours ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

The “in CMW I trust” approach is silly. He’s not infallible. He’s a second year coach who finished 9th in the conference and got blown out by a mid major in the round of 64 last year. He made mistakes last season. One of his biggest mistakes was his rotations. He killed us numerous times by playing 5 bench players at once. The best teams play shorter rotations. Our 2013 conference champion team had 6 guys play 10+ mpg in conference play. The 2016 team had 8 guys play 10+ mpg. Last year Wisconsin’s team had 6, and last year’s Illinois team had 7. We don’t have the talent to have a 10 man rotation. If we’re playing some cupcake, sure. Play them all. But when we’re playing the best teams on our schedule we need to play 7-8 guys, and our starters need to be playing 30+ mpg. 

Well I disagree, I think the depth is there to play 10.  Also, none of them team you mentioned made the final 4.  With College Basketball playing more games now, depth is important to allow teams to be a little fresher come tournament time and that’s when he should most likely shorten the rotation, IMO

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We beat Cal 2 out of the last 3 meetings

I’m aware. My point is we’ve been bad for a while since then. That’s not been the holdup. Cal wasn’t waiting on us to be bad again. Cal/Archie/Crean we’re the reasons, along with home court vs neutral court. 2 of the most memorable wins over the past 15 years. Let’s hope Woody has the team he wants/needs.


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But you’re only talking about IU under CAM, that’s not representative. As Scott pointed out we were beating UK (and the tourney game we lost with Vic was when they hit almost every free throw and iirc Vic fouled out). We were bad on all fronts under CAM, that’s over.

That’s my point. CAM was our coach since Crean. Cal wasn’t dodging us because we were good under CAM. Cal dodged us during Crean. Fair, fine, and funny. Sucky Crean can always brag about that about Cal going forward. Pretty funny really, considering the 2 coaches resumes.

Anyway, CAM was scared of the big games. Woody is not, hence the likely return of the series. I just hope Woody can pull off the Crean against Cal.


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51 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Well I disagree, I think the depth is there to play 10.  Also, none of them team you mentioned made the final 4.  With College Basketball playing more games now, depth is important to allow teams to be a little fresher come tournament time and that’s when he should most likely shorten the rotation, IMO

In the national championship game both UNC and Kansas had six players play 10+ minutes. UNC’s 6th guy played 18 minutes, and the 7th guy played 2. KU’s 7th guy played 7 minutes, #8 player 3 minutes, and #9 played 2. 

In the Duke/UNC final four game, UNC played five guys 10+ minutes. They only played 8 guys the entire game. Duke played 7 guys the entire game. In the Kansas/Nova game, each team had six players play 10+ minutes. 

I don’t understand the obsession with having such a big rotation. We’re not 2014/2015 Kentucky. We don’t have Devin Booker coming off our bench. Depth is great insurance for injuries. That doesn’t mean you need to play a 10 man rotation. Find your best 7-8 guys and roll with them. 

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59 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

And during Calipari‘s four Archie years, Kentucky underachieved relative to their preseason ranking in a major way every single year. They weren’t bad except for one year (which was far worse than anything Archie did), but they also weren’t special. They were about Iowa good.

Kentucky did manage to win the battle of preseason polls every one of Archie‘s years.

Iowa good? In those four years Kentucky went 26-11 (sweet 16); 30-7 (elite 8); 25-6 (tournament canceled, won the SEC); and then 9-16. Iowa hasn’t won the Big 10 since 1979, hasn’t made a sweet 16 since 1999, and hasn’t made an elite 8 since 1987. Iowa hasn’t won 30 games since 1987, and has only won 25+ games 3 times since 1987.

That doesn’t really compare to what UK did during the Archie era. UK did in 4 years what Iowa has done in 35.. Calipari gets pretty underrated around here, honestly. I get that people don’t like his ways, but over the last 10 NCAA tournaments he’s went round of 64, missed tournament, elite 8, sweet 16, elite 8, round of 32, final four, NC game, missed tournament, NC. 

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28 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Iowa good? In those four years Kentucky went 26-11 (sweet 16); 30-7 (elite 8); 25-6 (tournament canceled, won the SEC); and then 9-16. Iowa hasn’t won the Big 10 since 1979, hasn’t made a sweet 16 since 1999, and hasn’t made an elite 8 since 1987. Iowa hasn’t won 30 games since 1987, and has only won 25+ games 3 times since 1987.

That doesn’t really compare to what UK did during the Archie era. UK did in 4 years what Iowa has done in 35.. Calipari gets pretty underrated around here, honestly. I get that people don’t like his ways, but over the last 10 NCAA tournaments he’s went round of 64, missed tournament, elite 8, sweet 16, elite 8, round of 32, final four, NC game, missed tournament, NC. 

Alright, for those four years UK was about Purdue good.

And that’s with a UK preseason ranking of top-five for three of the four years and top ten every year.

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Given their recruiting success, I think it's fair to say they have under achieved. The best team I have seen them have was the year they lost to Wisconsin. That loss, in my opinion, was completely on Calipari. To me, he is a great salesman who has a line that appeals to some very good kids but a mediocre coach. With the talent he has had he should have multiple National Championships by now. And the one they have, could have easily have been ours.

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59 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Alright, for those four years UK was about Purdue good.

And that’s with a UK preseason ranking of top-five for three of the four years and top ten every year.

Preseason rankings are just that, preseason. UK will almost always be ranked highly in a preseason poll because of the UK brand. When IU had a good brand it got the same treatment in the polls. 

In 2018 UK was 5th in the preseason, 18th in the final, won the SEC tournament, and made the sweet 16. In 2019, UK was 2nd in the preseason, 7th in the final, and made the elite 8. In 2020, UK was 2nd in the preseason, 8th in the final, won the SEC, and then the tournament was canceled. 2021 UK sucked, and then in 2022 UK was 10th in the preseason and 7th in the final, though they lost in the first round.

Has UK underachieved the past half decade? Eh, I guess you could say that. Arguably their best team was in 2020 and that team didn’t get to play in the tournament, which makes it harder to evaluate. But UK’s results while underachieving are better than the vast majority of schools during that same timespan. To the extent either team “needs” the game, IU needs it a lot more than UK. UK has an outstanding national brand and continues to reload with top 2-3 classes every year. They’re fine either way. We need to be in these kinds of games. 

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On 10/3/2022 at 1:56 PM, Stuhoo said:

Parker Stewart was entirely a Kenya Hunter get.

Cmon... The HC still "oks" it. Either Archie screwed up getting Parker, or Archie screwed up allowing Kenya to get Parker. Regardless, there is still plenty of blame on Archie, and as you mentioned... plenty on Hunter, as well. 

Massive addition by subtraction, though, imo. 

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14 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Well I disagree, I think the depth is there to play 10.  Also, none of them team you mentioned made the final 4.  With College Basketball playing more games now, depth is important to allow teams to be a little fresher come tournament time and that’s when he should most likely shorten the rotation, IMO

Look at the final four from last year and every team had at least 3 starters to play 30+mpg. UNC had 5 over 30.  To me it is best to play a 8 man rotation who plays the majority of the minutes.

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On 10/4/2022 at 10:05 AM, HoosierX said:

Kopp is the best weak side defender and communicator on the team. There's a reason he played as much as he did last season.

Are you referencing Kopp helping off his man and being too slow to get back out to him, leaving them wide open from deep or being off-balance in both closeouts and defending 1v1? He was a net negative for the team and I'm sure the numbers back that up. His shot selection was terrible for an upperclassman.

Again, if he has a repeat performance from last season the team won't reach their goals.

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On 10/4/2022 at 9:46 AM, HoosierHoopster said:

I agree with this in part Aloha. I was really frustrated with Kopp's shooting last season, but more so for the lack of attempts and the way Woodson used him. I'm a believer in Woodson, but I was really surprised we shot around the same number of outside shots that we did under CAM, that's just mind boggling. We did not use the perimeter. We leaned way to heavily on the frontcourt. What I hope to see this season is guys like Bates, Kopp, JHS, X and yes JG taking those outside shots with the space that I think JHS and X will create with the inside dominance of TJD and Race and some Ren. Not having an inside-out game with these guys on the floor makes no sense, and Kopp can shoot, if he actually takes the dang shots.

One thing I liked in Ren's interview from ITH, he talked kick-outs. 

The begins with Kopp. He had some good looks but would take a dribble or two into his pull up game where he started the foundation for the next Assembly Hall. Woody should have pulled him for those bad shots but you could see it coming when last summer Kopp mentioned choosing IU because Woody would allow him to expand his game.

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On 10/4/2022 at 9:54 AM, Hoosierfan2017 said:

Unfortunately he’s about the closest thing we have to a maker. If the returning players only Johnson shoots better from 3, and most of his 3s seemed to be on wide open attempts. 

This is the problem. He's not really an outstanding shooter, isn't a plus defender, has bad shot selection, and doesn't rebound well. I guess he communicates? I haven't looked at the stats for awhile but I believe his eFG% was pretty bad and towards the bottom of rotation players.

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1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Look at the final four from last year and every team had at least 3 starters to play 30+mpg. UNC had 5 over 30.  To me it is best to play a 8 man rotation who plays the majority of the minutes.

I still say this:  “come tournament time and that’s when he should most likely shorten the rotation”. It just makes since to have our top 8 players fresher come tournament time by utilizing a deeper bench during the season.  If we play only 8 guys, who would you say sits?  Galloway, Geronimo, Bates, Reneau just to name 4 and there maybe others who emerge worthy of minutes 

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48 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

If we play only 8 guys, who would you say sits?  Galloway, Geronimo, Bates, Reneau just to name 4 and there maybe others who emerge worthy of minutes 

Galloway although he will play if his perimeter shooting has improved. It is not likely Galloway will play ahead of Bates, Geronimo or Reneau. Bates is apparently the most improved player on the team and Galloway spent the summer recovering from surgery. Geronimo and Reneau will play in front court. Obviously if someone gets hurt or production on the court is poor, Galloway could see more time.

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2 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I still say this:  “come tournament time and that’s when he should most likely shorten the rotation”. It just makes since to have our top 8 players fresher come tournament time by utilizing a deeper bench during the season.  If we play only 8 guys, who would you say sits?  Galloway, Geronimo, Bates, Reneau just to name 4 and there maybe others who emerge worthy of minutes 

If it was up to me Galloway and Kopp would probably play 10mpg. Obviously those 4 teams didn't have trouble getting to the final with mainly playing 8 players 

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2 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

We would be collectively [insert inappropriate phrase] if we had cal's record the past decade. The reason we nitpick is because they're a "rival." That "underachieving" is what we've been winning in the offseason for years.

That’s why I really disagree with the downplaying of Calipari’s results. Would I be upset if we had his classes but got his results? Sure, maybe. It’s an impossible question for me to answer because I root for a team that hasn’t made it past the sweet 16 since I was in the first grade. He’s made 7 elite eights and 4 final fours at UK. How many schools have had better results over that span? 

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