Mike DeBord Retiring

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Lol why back up your blind hatred with facts when petty insults will do. 
Ramsey is a game manager asking him to score 30+ points a game was a flawed proposition from the start. The defense from 2 years ago wins the minny and Purdue games and one of the others. 
Dont ask a player to do something out of their scope then blame them. That would be like playing Juwan Morgan as a point then say he’s struggling because he can’t do it. 

Game managers don’t throw as many interceptions as Ramsey did this past season. DeBord was boring, but Ramsey was not of the caliber needed either.


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[Brass Cannon 24,068]

5 hours ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Game managers don’t throw as many interceptions as Ramsey did this past season. DeBord was boring, but Ramsey was not of the caliber needed either.


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They do when they are behind the whole game being asked to win the game

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

They do when they are behind the whole game being asked to win the game

Listen, you’re being stubborn because you’re trying to win the argument that’s been going on with Old Friend for months now. Ramsey has plenty of flaws as does DeBord. They are a terrible combination. However, pretending like either is the sole problem is ignorant.


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[Hoosierfan2017 19,912]

7 hours ago, Old Friend said:

What did you possibly see out of the kid that excites you?  He has a weak arm, slow feet in the pocket, and he's inaccurate beyond 10-15 yards.  Seriously, man....Ramsey is what he is.  He's very, very average as a quarterback.  All of you that love to sling blame other directions make me question what you're watching.  Fact :  Peyton Ramsey was 93rd of 129 FBS schools in yards per attempt.  More than five yards behind the top 2 and 2 yards behind the top 20.    How you place zero blame on him for that is simply laughable.  He is captain check down. Why? Because he can''t make the throws down the field consistently.

I'm excited because I think he made good improvements from last year to this year and I expect the same next year with another offseason of training. Yes, he had a low YPA, but I believe that was more of a product of the playcalling than it was his abilities. He showed the ability to make some throws downfield when given the opportunity. 

There seems to be two basic beliefs among IU fans: either 1) the coaches didn't open up the playbook because Ramsey has a very weak arm; or 2) Ramsey has an adequate arm but couldn't really demonstrate it because of the playcalling. If Ramsey is the starting quarterback next year we're likely to find out who's right. I'm excited by the possibility of IU consistently throwing the ball downfield and seeing if Ramsey is capable. The 6 yard passes on 3rd and 8 drove me nuts. 

It also drove me nuts watching us in the shotgun every single snap, even when we were running it on 4th and 1. The style of offense we ran didn't really work with our personnel. Our defense was our calling card, yet we ran a fast tempo offense that often didn't stay on the field for long. Ramsey isn't the kind of quarterback you want throwing the ball 40+ times a game. You want him around 25 attempts a game with a strong dosage of the run. We have talented running backs so we should be able to make that happen. I'm hopeful that a new OC can come in and make these adjustments. 

[Brass Cannon 24,068]

33 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

Listen, you’re being stubborn because you’re trying to win the argument that’s been going on with Old Friend for months now. Ramsey has plenty of flaws as does DeBord. They are a terrible combination. However, pretending like either is the sole problem is ignorant.


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Never said they were. Don’t put words in my mouth then call me stubborn. 

But to argue the Ramsey couldn’t Trent dilfer his way to a winning record is just blind ignorance and hate

He had 3 multi interception games both were losses by 2 TDS.  The other was Minny which was only a 1 TD game because Ramsey led 3 TD drives in the 4th quarter

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Never said they were. Don’t put words in my mouth then call me stubborn. 
But to argue the Ramsey couldn’t Trent dilfer his way to a winning record is just blind ignorance and hate
He had 3 multi interception games both were losses by 2 TDS.  The other was Minny which was only a 1 TD game because Ramsey led 3 TD drives in the 4th quarter

You’ve certainly said Ramsey is not the problem and that DeBord is. If you disagree, that’s fine.

Ramsey has potential for sure. He’s also flawed. His strength became a weakness from one year to the next with a massive increase in turnovers. I’m glad we’re going to have a new OC and hopefully a new option in Penix or Tuttle.


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[Brass Cannon 24,068]

Just now, Walking Boot of Doom said:

You’ve certainly said Ramsey is not the problem and that DeBord is. If you disagree, that’s fine.

Ramsey has potential for sure. He’s also flawed. His strength became a weakness from one year to the next with a massive increase in turnovers. I’m glad we’re going to have a new OC and hopefully a new option in Penix or Tuttle.


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I guess he’s only a problem if you think we should be shooting for more than a 7-5 or 8-4 record. Which I think is silly.  Frankly we aren’t going to keep getting guys that can go to the NFL  Gotta take what you can get.  Try to go out there with a gunslinger probably end up with a guy losing us games like our last QB

Built a good D + game manager QB = success this program hasn’t seen in ages 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I guess he’s only a problem if you think we should be shooting for more than a 7-5 or 8-4 record. Which I think is silly.  Frankly we aren’t going to keep getting guys that can go to the NFL  Gotta take what you can get.  Try to go out there with a gunslinger probably end up with a guy losing us games like our last QB
Built a good D + game manager QB = success this program hasn’t seen in ages 

I agree with that recipe, which is why Ramsey was so disappointing this year. 19 TDs and 13 INTs isn’t what I’d call managing a game.

Im excited to see what Penix and Tuttle can do. They both seem to have much higher ceilings.


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[Brass Cannon 24,068]

30 minutes ago, Walking Boot of Doom said:

I agree with that recipe, which is why Ramsey was so disappointing this year. 19 TDs and 13 INTs isn’t what I’d call managing a game.

Im excited to see what Penix and Tuttle can do. They both seem to have much higher ceilings.


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Any game manager is going to throw picks when you ask him to go out there and gunsling because the D gave up 35 points. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Any game manager is going to throw picks when you ask him to go out there and gunsling because the D gave up 35 points. 

DeBord’s play calling explicitly did not ask Ramsey to “gunsling”. That’s been a main point of debate around DeBord’s effectiveness as OC.

Once again, glad we’ll have new options at both OC and QB. Neither were effective last year. You’re clearly not going to change your opinion, so I’ll leave it at that.


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[Brass Cannon 24,068]

Gunsling is probably the wrong word but a game manager should not be throwing it 40 times a game. Ramsey did it 6 times. Once even going above 50. 

Its not a coincidence that in 4 of our 5 wins he threw it less than 30 times. 

[Stuhoo 75,778]

It seems to me that based on our current personnel, we should be looking to open the field for our best offensive weapon, Scott.

I’m no football coach, but common practice to free up a big back is to throw downfield a bit more than usual to keep safeties out of the box. Throwing frequent dink and dunk passes only squishes in the defense, and exacerbates the problem. Course ya need a receiver or two that can get downfield and a qb with arm strength to pull it off.

 

[ap2345 7,099]

It seems to me that based on our current personnel, we should be looking to open the field for our best offensive weapon, Scott.
I’m no football coach, but common practice to free up a big back is to throw downfield a bit more than usual to keep safeties out of the box. Throwing frequent dink and dunk passes only squishes in the defense, and exacerbates the problem. Course ya need a receiver or two that can get downfield and a qb with arm strength to pull it off.
 

You aren’t wrong. I think IU should try to utilize the types of things that the colts have done this year. Here is why. They have to utilize short passes because they don’t have a great O-line until proven other wise. They do need to run the football with their group of running backs, and they need to throw the ball down field to open that up. So I guess they need to be better at taking what the opposition is giving them but for that to happen the OC needs to be flexible and the QB needs to be able to make all the throws and not just 5-15 yard throws.


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[8bucks 6,144]

Is the OC job here that attractive? I know we would love to hire a solid OC but if you were such a person and had a chance to go to a school where the HC could be on the hot seat if the team does not go to a bowl game would this be better than other options you have?

You could spin it to we are a good offense away from going bowling but if this OC is moving up because they are coveted that means they are likely trading stability for $.

This OC might also have an opportunity to go to a start up opportunity with a program bringing in a completely new staff. In this situation he likely has a few years to make the transition whereas here he may need to dramatically improve our offense in one year or we could see the entire staff let go.

I think this job has some appeal but we may find our first choices have better or more stable options.


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[Crimson and Cream 5,707]

I'll just be happy to not see QB draws called for one yard gains anymore

[Hoosier116 318]

On Ramsey, I believe he is an ok qb who would make any team happy to have as their backup. I tend to believe that papaw Debo had plenty of plays called to get the ball downfield and Ramsey wouldn’t do it. Penix would come in and IMMEDIATELY look to push the ball downfield. And back to OC topic..anybody hearing anything?? It’s very quiet on the rumor front


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[JSHoosier 19,580]

11 minutes ago, Hoosier116 said:

On Ramsey, I believe he is an ok qb who would make any team happy to have as their backup. I tend to believe that papaw Debo had plenty of plays called to get the ball downfield and Ramsey wouldn’t do it. Penix would come in and IMMEDIATELY look to push the ball downfield. And back to OC topic..anybody hearing anything?? It’s very quiet on the rumor front


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Penix's yards per attempt this year was the same as Ramsey, 6.4 each.  Smaller sample size of course.

[JSHoosier 19,580]

1 hour ago, Crimson and Cream said:

I'll just be happy to not see QB draws called for one yard gains anymore

Hey, at least we didn't see designed QB runs for a statue.  Granted it's because the statue graduated.

[Hoosier116 318]

Penix's yards per attempt this year was the same as Ramsey, 6.4 each.  Smaller sample size of course.

Yeah that’s definitely something to see if that changes if penix gets more time. He also didn’t complete passes while pushing downfield so absolutely not a sure thing on penix it anything


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[JSHoosier 19,580]

3 minutes ago, Hoosier116 said:

 

Yeah that’s definitely something to see if that changes if penix gets more time. He also didn’t complete passes while pushing downfield so absolutely not a sure thing on penix it anything


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It's a much smaller sample size, but I didn't see anything to say he's a better option than Ramsey is.  His rushing numbers were maybe better but that's not what a QB needs to be able to do, if anything his passing was equal to or less than Ramsey.

His best yards/attempt was 9.4 against Florida International (10 passes), and cratered against Penn State with 4.9 in 19 attempts.  

I can't look at those and say the problem is more on Ramsey and less on DeBord.