(2017) PF Billy Preston to Kansas

[mdn82 25,793]

Brass, I truly think you need an itemized statement to understand your argument really does not make any sense in the grand scheme of things. Unfortunately, IU won't come off of that for us. This is an argument that neither side will ever agree on until either side could show what was truly spent. Like the recruiting trip to Arizona after Hawaii. That cost very little since they were on a return flight. Then they hit up Yogi's game. Those are personal expenses beyond that. Then in the summer at the EYBL tournaments you are viewing multiple players. Less money. Our costs are travel related due to not having the accommodations other programs have. We have to pay for rentals, which you aren't going to show up in a trash car. We have to pay for private jets as well. Those are expensive. The Jets are where our costs take off. The fact that UK has one, they just have to pay for fuel and maintenance. They go everywhere to land recruits. You ever notice we mainly stick in the Midwest and East coast? If you take the cost of travel away our budget gets cut in half. Unfortunately planes are expensive.


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[mdn82 25,793]

I understand we have been spending money for 4 years that doesn't make this years failures somehow more acceptable?  Not sure why that's so hard to get. 

I also don't get why as our budget has skyrocketed our results have gotten worse. 

Because we have expanded beyond Indiana and the DMV. Even if by recruiting site rankings we have failed (because not one of them have stepped foot on a college court. Lower probability of them being superstars but they haven't failed) it is impossible to know explicitly what money we have spent on this class alone. I would argue most of the money spent went to other classes as two of our top recruits we spent most of the time on were in state. They don't cost as much.


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[hoosierpap 14,300]

7 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

I understand we have been spending money for 4 years that doesn't make this years failures somehow more acceptable?  Not sure why that's so hard to get. 

I also don't get why as our budget has skyrocketed our results have gotten worse. 

 

It's a perceived failure. It's in your head. You don't know IU's 2016-2017 basketball recruiting budget, you don't know how and what classes it was spent on, and it's November 20th- meaning there is another signing period. 

You can try to throw it in my face that I'm being "positive"...the above is the reality. Those are the terms i'm living in.

[Brass Cannon 25,176]

2 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Because we have expanded beyond Indiana and the DMV. Even if by recruiting site rankings we have failed (because not one of them have stepped foot on a college court. Lower probability of them being superstars but they haven't failed) it is impossible to know explicitly what money we have spent on this class alone. I would argue most of the money spent went to other classes as two of our top recruits we spent most of the time on were in state. They don't cost as much.


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We're still spending big boy program money and getting Purdue level success though. That's the issue. 

And yes maybe we can win like that which is great. But why pay for the 5 star restaurant and get the corner joints food?  

We are spending enough money that we shouldn't have down years. And we are one Davis injury next year to having a REALLY bad year. Last years team could weather JBJs injury because we had a 4 star on the bench. 

[hoosierpap 14,300]

Just now, Brass Cannon said:

We're still spending big boy program money and getting Purdue level success though. That's the issue. 

And yes maybe we can win like that which is great. But why pay for the 5 star restaurant and get the corner joints food?  

We are spending enough money that we shouldn't have down years. And we are one Davis injury next year to having a REALLY bad year. Last years team could weather JBJs injury because we had a 4 star on the bench. 

3

This is literally based on no factual information. 

[Brass Cannon 25,176]

3 minutes ago, hoosierpap said:

It's a perceived failure. It's in your head. You don't know IU's 2016-2017 basketball recruiting budget, you don't know how and what classes it was spent on, and it's November 20th- meaning there is another signing period. 

You can try to throw it in my face that I'm being "positive"...the above is the reality. Those are the terms i'm living in.

The reality is we chased how many 5 stars and got none. That's not realistically a good thing. 

I don't know the budget it's fair to assume that if the previous few years have all been over half million then 2017 probably had around a half million on it  

yes there is another signing period are we in the mix with any of the kids?  Doesn't seem like it  we have exhausted our primary and secondary targets  pretty much everybody we watched during the July Evals is beyond us at this point  

5 minutes ago, hoosierpap said:

This is literally based on no factual information. 

It's based on what happened this year. They have a higher rated recruiting class spending a fraction of the money. 

[hoosierpap 14,300]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

The reality is we chased how many 5 stars and got none. That's not realistically a good thing. 

I don't know the budget it's fair to assume that if the previous few years have all been over half million then 2017 probably had around a half million on it  

yes there is another signing period are we in the mix with any of the kids?  Doesn't seem like it  we have exhausted our primary and secondary targets  pretty much everybody we watched during the July Evals is beyond us at this point  

It's based on what happened this year. They have a higher rated recruiting class spending a fraction of the money. 

 

I see this is going nowhere lol. Think what you will man, just don't poison the water on your way.

[Uspshoosier 51,094]

We're still spending big boy program money and getting Purdue level success though. That's the issue. 

And yes maybe we can win like that which is great. But why pay for the 5 star restaurant and get the corner joints food?  

We are spending enough money that we shouldn't have down years. And we are one Davis injury next year to having a REALLY bad year. Last years team could weather JBJs injury because we had a 4 star on the bench. 

Last year's team was a Bryant injury away from having a bad year. Last year's team also had a not ranked grad transfer on the bench that stepped up as well


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[Brass Cannon 25,176]

1 minute ago, Uspshoosier said:

Last year's team was a Bryant injury away from having a bad year. Last year's team also had a not ranked grad transfer on the bench that stepped up as well


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And if we get another Max B I'll be the first to congratulate Crean. But experienced big men misused by their previous coach don't grow on trees. 

[Uspshoosier 51,094]

And if we get another Max B I'll be the first to congratulate Crean. But experienced big men misused by their previous coach don't grow on trees. 

I willing to bet there are more out there then u think. There was over 600 transfers last year and 15 percent of them were grad transfer. I would guess if those 600 there are some misused big men. 2 top 10 programs relied heavily on the transfer rule this year and ended up not working out. Michigan st got Ben carter because they knew they would be limiter in the post unfortunately for Ben he blew his knee out in practice and then Virginia got Austin Nichols because they were really hurting for low post productivity. Virginia was ranked high based on the fact he would be there. Now the analysis are saying they will be lucky to finish top 5 in the acc

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[Brass Cannon 25,176]

20 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

I willing to bet there are more out there then u think. There was over 600 transfers last year and 15 percent of them were grad transfer. I would guess if those 600 there are some misused big men. 2 top 10 programs relied heavily on the transfer rule this year and ended up not working out. Michigan st got Ben carter because they knew they would be limiter in the post unfortunately for Ben he blew his knee out in practice and then Virginia got Austin Nichols because they were really hurting for low post productivity. Virginia was ranked high based on the fact he would be there. Now the analysis are saying they will be lucky to finish top 5 in the acc

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That's fair. And I'll give Crean this with how stacked MSU looks for next year probably a good year to pick for a rebuild year

[Uspshoosier 51,094]

That's fair. And I'll give Crean this with how stacked MSU looks for next year probably a good year to pick for a rebuild year

Stacked on paper. I don't see bridges back and from the 10 games I have seen live of jaren Jackson over the years I don't see him coming in a making a miles bridges impact. Just my opinion though. MSU might be stacked next or they might not live up to there paper resume. Too early to speculate on a 2017-18 team

On paper Preston should make Kansas better in my opinion

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[WayneFleekHoosier 49,988]

I clearly see your points Brass Cannon.

On paper we are purdue recruiting this season without any argument.

What else can we reasonably compare it too? Just have faith? That's all?

As far as recruiting money 4 years vs 1 year. It doesn't matter.

You pay top 5 dollars you expect top 5 results. 2016 was a slightly down year. 2017 a WAY down year. Unless we get lucky in 2018 our previous recruiting wins go wasted. Our successful team this year will slowly dip to follow recruiting woes.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 49,988]

Furthering the thought. Imagine OG, TB, and Blackmon leave and we enter our nationally unheralded recruiting class. Are we ranked in the preseason? I say absolutely not. USPS thinks we will be but "on paper" which is how preseason rankings are determined, we lost our best 3 players and replaced them with mid level talent. Can we outperform those expectations? Of course. Will we be a top team? Not likely.

Preseason rankings matter to a degree. It's easier to stay up top than it is to rise to the top. Plus preseason rankings are "fairly" accurate of who the "real" contenders are.

Indiana, if being a top paying recruiting school, should be at the point to reload vs rebuild.


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[Uspshoosier 51,094]

I clearly see your points Brass Cannon.

On paper we are purdue recruiting this season without any argument.

What else can we reasonably compare it too? Just have faith? That's all?

As far as recruiting money 4 years vs 1 year. It doesn't matter.

You pay top 5 dollars you expect top 5 results. 2016 was a slightly down year. 2017 a WAY down year. Unless we get lucky in 2018 our previous recruiting wins go wasted. Our successful team this year will slowly dip to follow recruiting woes.


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I guess u hope it compares to the Michigan st. They are a top level program no one would argue that and in 2013 and 2014 recruiting classes had back to back years on the recruiting front that were not to the message board posters standards ( 2013-schilling(137) Ellis-(290), van dyke (nr). 2014-tum tum(117), Clark-(217 and transferred), Bess-(148). Michigan st still competed for a top 4 finish in big 10 despite a couple down years in recruiting.
When u tell me they had a national player of the year candidate on their team just remember he was (129)


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[Sota Hoosier 450]

I thought I heard this somewhere but isn't Bridges MSU's first ever 5*? I'm disappointed we didn't land any of our top-level targets and can fully understand the wasted resources argument. That said, I think we'll be top 5 in the B1G next year and could even surprise some and finish top 3. I'm assuming we will get a grad transfer and likely Tucker in this argument too. It's pretty important that we perform well in March this year and make a run to stay relevant on the national stage. We'll get more respect next year if we do.


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[Uspshoosier 51,094]

Furthering the thought. Imagine OG, TB, and Blackmon leave and we enter our nationally unheralded recruiting class. Are we ranked in the preseason? I say absolutely not. USPS thinks we will be but "on paper" which is how preseason rankings are determined, we lost our best 3 players and replaced them with mid level talent. Can we outperform those expectations? Of course. Will we be a top team? Not likely.

Preseason rankings matter to a degree. It's easier to stay up top than it is to rise to the top. Plus preseason rankings are "fairly" accurate of who the "real" contenders are.

Indiana, if being a top paying recruiting school, should be at the point to reload vs rebuild.


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"On paper" we would have a senior backcourt coming back(one of those a top 50 player and the other top 120 player), a junior top 75 SF/PF that can handle the ball, a top 40 sophomore big man in the middle. A (top 70, top 40 by ESPN I will use ESPN because it helps me look better lol) sophomore guard. Do u think st Mary's this year has more talent then that? They started out the season ranked 17th. I say absolutely yes we could be ranked to start out next year even with losing all of that


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[Uspshoosier 51,094]

I thought I heard this somewhere but isn't Bridges MSU's first ever 5*? I'm disappointed we didn't land any of our top-level targets and can fully understand the wasted resources argument. That said, I think we'll be top 5 in the B1G next year and could even surprise some and finish top 3. I'm assuming we will get a grad transfer and likely Tucker in this argument too. It's pretty important that we perform well in March this year and make a run to stay relevant on the national stage. We'll get more respect next year if we do.


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Davis last year was borderline 5 star. Some had him 5 others had him high 4


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[WayneFleekHoosier 49,988]

"On paper" we would have a senior backcourt coming back(one of those a top 50 player and the other top 120 player), a junior top 75 SF/PF that can handle the ball, a top 40 sophomore big man in the middle. A (top 70, top 40 by ESPN I will use ESPN because it helps me look better lol) sophomore guard. Do u think st Mary's this year has more talent then that? They started out the season ranked 17th. I say absolutely yes we could be ranked to start out next year even with losing all of that


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St. Mary's argument isn't equal to ours. They returned the bulk of a successful roster. Not ranked on paper but by the groups collective success.

Our roster will be depleted of its 3 best players. Will take a lot of projection to guess if we'll be good with no great recruits incoming.


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[Cletus20 56]

,Izzo has recruited 14 McDonald’s All-Americans (Mateen Cleaves - 1996, Jason Richardson - 1999, Marcus Taylor and Zach Randolph - 2000, Kelvin Torbert - 2001, Paul Davis - 2002, Shannon Brown and Brandon Cotton - 2003, Keith Appling - 2010, Branden Dawson - 2011, Gary Harris - 2012, Deyonta Davis –

Gotta think there were a few 5 stars