IU vs Duke Post Game Thread

[BlueDevil 9,549]

From @janitorinthegym

Scouting report: let Brandon Ingram shoot #truestory ..we did, he scored...easy way out of slump .. Thanks #iubb

[HoosierAloha 30,102]

From @janitorinthegym

Scouting report: let Brandon Ingram shoot #truestory ..we did, he scored...easy way out of slump .. Thanks #iubb

 

In game adjustment, he's still hitting from outside?  Dang, leave him open he'll eventually miss.

[Josh 13,216]

Anyone have a video of the scuffle between Allen and Rojo. I stopped watching as soon as we got down by 20.

 

Typical Duke flop.  Not a scuffle at all.

[KingPG21 6,587]

At least the Pacers are good right now....?

PG SUPERSTAR

[Hovadipo 61,303]

PG SUPERSTAR

For real though.....

[BlueDevil 9,549]

For real though.....

MVP MVP MVP

[Hovadipo 61,303]

MVP MVP MVP

Steph's going to ruin anyone's hope at an MVP for a little while.

[BlueDevil 9,549]

Steph's going to ruin anyone's hope at an MVP for a little while.

Saw a stat where PG was second in the league in 3PT FG made and he is still almost 50 behind the chef.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Still refusing to feel bad for the players after that performance. Quotes from Doyle:

 

"The Blue Devils outrebounded Indiana 38-25. Duke missed 35 shots and grabbed the offensive rebound on more than half of them (19).

“We thought we could drive and get offensive boards if we were patient and strong,” said Krzyzewski.

The Blue Devils spent the game diving all over the court, diving over press row, diving into the cameras on the baseline. I saw IU sophomore James Blackmon Jr. hit the floor once, but he tripped. And while the ball was on the court near him, he just sort of reached for it. Duke’s Matt Jones then dived on the ball and passed it to a teammate for a bucket that gave Duke a 25-point lead.

Here’s a stat that illustrates what I’m talking about: Indiana’s starting frontcourt – Troy Williams, Thomas Bryant and Hartman – played 41 combined minutes in the first half and combined for zero rebounds.

None.

Another stat: Duke entered the game No. 1 in the country in points per possession at 1.18 – and were much, much better against Indiana. The Blue Devils scored 1.49 points per possession, their most efficient offensive game against a major-conference opponent in 20 years. Coach K tried to be diplomatic about that."

 

"Defense is effort. So is rebounding. And late in the second half, after nearly 36 minutes of basketball, the Hoosiers’ leading rebounder was someone called “TEAM.” That’s who gets credit for the rebound when it goes out of bounds. The team gets the rebound, not a player. And with 4 minutes left, “TEAM” was Indiana’s leading rebounder with five. Robert Johnson was next with four."

 

Zero heart from anyone outside of the first 8 minutes of the game until the second half of the second half when Yogi and Troy started playing like the experienced NBA-hopefuls they are. Crean was god awful in every regard, but every single player who set foot on the floor last night, and in Maui, failed.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Still refusing to feel bad for the players after that performance. Quotes from Doyle:

 

"The Blue Devils outrebounded Indiana 38-25. Duke missed 35 shots and grabbed the offensive rebound on more than half of them (19).

“We thought we could drive and get offensive boards if we were patient and strong,” said Krzyzewski.

The Blue Devils spent the game diving all over the court, diving over press row, diving into the cameras on the baseline. I saw IU sophomore James Blackmon Jr. hit the floor once, but he tripped. And while the ball was on the court near him, he just sort of reached for it. Duke’s Matt Jones then dived on the ball and passed it to a teammate for a bucket that gave Duke a 25-point lead.

Here’s a stat that illustrates what I’m talking about: Indiana’s starting frontcourt – Troy Williams, Thomas Bryant and Hartman – played 41 combined minutes in the first half and combined for zero rebounds.

None.

Another stat: Duke entered the game No. 1 in the country in points per possession at 1.18 – and were much, much better against Indiana. The Blue Devils scored 1.49 points per possession, their most efficient offensive game against a major-conference opponent in 20 years. Coach K tried to be diplomatic about that."

 

"Defense is effort. So is rebounding. And late in the second half, after nearly 36 minutes of basketball, the Hoosiers’ leading rebounder was someone called “TEAM.” That’s who gets credit for the rebound when it goes out of bounds. The team gets the rebound, not a player. And with 4 minutes left, “TEAM” was Indiana’s leading rebounder with five. Robert Johnson was next with four."

 

Zero heart from anyone outside of the first 8 minutes of the game until the second half of the second half when Yogi and Troy started playing like the experienced NBA-hopefuls they are. Crean was god awful in every regard, but every single player who set foot on the floor last night, and in Maui, failed.

Personally, I think it's too easy to look at the player's failure and not the reason for the player's failure. Is it more likely we ended up with a team full of selfish low-effort players or they have become selfish low-effort players in the system? TB last night is the not the same TB who played those first few games. Yogi has been worse every year he's on the floor. These were highly sought after, talented, athletic, intelligent kids in high school. Why aren't they now?

 

An example. Vonleh was an uncoordinated, selfish, terrible, messy player in his year at Indiana. I watch him on the Blazers now and he shows poise, good sense of defense, and confidence. The player I'm watching now is not the same player we had. If we had this Vonleh that year, it would have been a different team. So, what happened? Just NBA development? Or something more?

 

What is it we always hear about Vic? He had unique personal drive and spent hours on self-improvement outside of the system.

 

I've never done anything quite like our players or had as much weight on my shoulders, but I've worked places where the system sucked. And when your efforts don't get rewarded properly by higher-ups or you bust your balls and see no benefits and then you're frustrated and say "screw it, I'm not doing that for him anymore" and your attitude is never punished and nothing changed from when you put in the effort, it's hard to overcome that. Maybe the personal desire to get to the NBA should be enough for some players. Maybe some players think they're watching their NBA dreams slip away because they made a bad decision before they graduated high school and are playing from frustration. Without insight into their minds it's hard to tell.

 

All I know is the system is broken. I have trouble faulting the players too much for acting the way most people act in a broken system. Especially after years in the system. I don't like their effort level, I don't like them thinking it's OK to have an excuse, but I do understand it.

 

I guess it's ultimately similar to the concept frequently called "liberal guilt". If you're in a cycle of systemic poverty and violence and get pulled into the cycle and do something wrong, you have to be punished because you aren't blameless, but I wish you'd not been put in that position in the first place. If you work a corner because your brother is hungry and your mom is an addict and someone needs to provide for the family but you're too young/uneducated to get a real job and you get picked up and charged, you still did something wrong, but it is still tragic for you. These players have to be held accountable for their mistakes, but darned if I can help feeling bad they've been put in a system that pushes them towards exactly what they're being punished for.

[Josh 13,216]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2595354-indiana-player-bumps-coach-k-on-the-way-to-the-locker-room-at-the-half?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national

 

video of max bumping coach k...i guess this goes here lol....i think it does look intended.....i think he was just frustrated

 

Coach K flopped too.  Can we just call it the Duke flop no matter what the game is?

[KingPG21 6,587]

For real though.....

Kind of unreal how he has come back from his leg snapping in half and he looks like a better more well rounded offensive player, plus that defense. 

 

Sucks that the NBA got rid of their comeback player of the year award. PG would win it in the most monumental land slide in the history of voting. 

[8bucks 7,485]

I would not say I felt sorry for the kids but I believe that Crean is not getting the most out of them nor pushing them to become all they can be. For that I get the empathy idea and place the majority of this on Crean.

[johnsoniu 7,048]

This team stinks

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Personally, I think it's too easy to look at the player's failure and not the reason for the player's failure. Is it more likely we ended up with a team full of selfish low-effort players or they have become selfish low-effort players in the system? TB last night is the not the same TB who played those first few games. Yogi has been worse every year he's on the floor. These were highly sought after, talented, athletic, intelligent kids in high school. Why aren't they now?

 

An example. Vonleh was an uncoordinated, selfish, terrible, messy player in his year at Indiana. I watch him on the Blazers now and he shows poise, good sense of defense, and confidence. The player I'm watching now is not the same player we had. If we had this Vonleh that year, it would have been a different team. So, what happened? Just NBA development? Or something more?

 

What is it we always hear about Vic? He had unique personal drive and spent hours on self-improvement outside of the system.

 

I've never done anything quite like our players or had as much weight on my shoulders, but I've worked places where the system sucked. And when your efforts don't get rewarded properly by higher-ups or you bust your balls and see no benefits and then you're frustrated and say "screw it, I'm not doing that for him anymore" and your attitude is never punished and nothing changed from when you put in the effort, it's hard to overcome that. Maybe the personal desire to get to the NBA should be enough for some players. Maybe some players think they're watching their NBA dreams slip away because they made a bad decision before they graduated high school and are playing from frustration. Without insight into their minds it's hard to tell.

 

All I know is the system is broken. I have trouble faulting the players too much for acting the way most people act in a broken system. Especially after years in the system. I don't like their effort level, I don't like them thinking it's OK to have an excuse, but I do understand it.

 

I guess it's ultimately similar to the concept frequently called "liberal guilt". If you're in a cycle of systemic poverty and violence and get pulled into the cycle and do something wrong, you have to be punished because you aren't blameless, but I wish you'd not been put in that position in the first place. If you work a corner because your brother is hungry and your mom is an addict and someone needs to provide for the family but you're too young/uneducated to get a real job and you get picked up and charged, you still did something wrong, but it is still tragic for you. These players have to be held accountable for their mistakes, but darned if I can help feeling bad they've been put in a system that pushes them towards exactly what they're being punished for.

Here's my question: Why did Watford, Zeller, Oladipo, and Hulls overcome Crean's deficiencies, and these players can't?

[brandct 675]

Here's my question: Why did Watford, Zeller, Oladipo, and Hulls overcome Crean's deficiencies, and these players can't?

 

Senior Leadership and these players had a high basketball IQ which seems to be lacking with the current team.

[MartintheMopMan 7,765]

Here's my question: Why did Watford, Zeller, Oladipo, and Hulls overcome Crean's deficiencies, and these players can't?

Did they? Rewatch the end of either season and tell me they didn't look worse than at the season's start.

 

They still faded down the stretch. Players often looked lost on defense, especially in 2012. Away games were a plague. Neutral courts a disaster. We can all point to games where they won despite the coaching and schemes not because of it.

 

They still did better than this year's team, that's true. And a lot comes down to leadership within the team. Oladipo especially had a one-in-a-million level of dedication. That dedication rubs off on other players. When Zeller sees him put in an extra session, he starts to think maybe he should too. If O and Z are at the gym, then there is a little pressure on others. And then once everyone is doing it, it's self-sustaining. We lose this core, and suddenly who is showing the fire? Yogi and Sheehey. But, Yogi is a sophomore who lacks the natural drive to Oladipo's level and just doesn't keep the same traditions. Sheehey had age and fire but was wanting in a lot of other areas from all the personal stories I've heard and was not a leader. So, no one follows their lead. No one outside is encouraging them to continue, the team's performance drops significantly. They start to hear the team is not going to succeed anyway and bad behavior is being rewarded. It's a "rebuilding year" and Crean's excuses start to rub off on the players. Maybe instead of an extra hour in the gym, we should spend the extra hour getting laid, we aren't going to win anyway. Some bad apples join the program and don't have solid leaders to counter them.

 

There were also different fan expectations. People were down on the team early, stopped showing up, the team feels less cared for, starts to care less too.

 

At some point they needed a leader to step-up and take charge but no one was up to it. The team has suffered since then.

 

I don't know Yogi well-enough to say why he isn't a leader. Maybe starting point freshman year gave him a big head. Maybe the pressures of being the one to carry the team as a sophomore broke him. You can watch it though, if you put in the time. Watch Yogi's decline from a confident, intelligent, active player to what he is today.

 

No one from the outside can know for sure why that group enjoyed limited success despite the system, but it's hard to look at Yogi each year and compare them and not think there was a fundamental change. His statistics improved but his fundamentals get worse and worse.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,075]

Good reasonable synopsis. I think many of those players were absolutely tired of losing and being embarrassed. Getting Zeller and Oladipo gaining confidence, and Watford playing his role well gave us enough talent to compete and the desire to FINALLY win was strong for that group. Hulls, Oladipo, Jones, and others talked about how hard those losing seasons were. Built character and toughness.

[BlueDevil 9,549]

Dick Vitale on the Dakich show said he talked to Bob Knight about 20 minutes before he came on. Said Knight didn't watch the game. Didn't figure he did but interesting nonetheless. Talked about team defense.

[FortWayneHoosier 6,691]

Dick Vitale on the Dakich show said he talked to Bob Knight about 20 minutes before he came on. Said Knight didn't watch the game. Didn't figure he did but interesting nonetheless. Talked about team defense.

id wouldnt doubt it if he hasnt watched in years(besides the time he called that game in 2012)....he wants nothing to do with Indiana, much like the fan base right now lol