BB, I want to conduct an experiment...

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,389]

Crap, sometimes I really hate being right. I have little faith in this administration to do right by the program right now, especially not while Glass has any input.

Another year of yelling "friggin move!!!" while multiple players stand around watching, making 8 in a row. Another year of not feeding the post with a talented big, making 4. Another year of mind boggling substitutions and inept zone offense. Yay, can't wait....

eh, this will be the year Crean figures it all out. ***holds breath***

[swatford 1,235]

Just because we predicted what happened correctly, doesn't mean that we are happy about it or wanted to be correct.

I'm not suggesting that people are happy about it, just that sometimes our passion for IU basketball makes us a little irrational from time to time. It certainly did seem, at least to me, that there was enough momentum behind the notion that Crean was going to get fired yet almost half of us thought he would be.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,773]

Sadly, he'll be back

I WIN!  I WIN!  WE LOST!  WE LOST!

[JSHoosier 20,253]

eh, this will be the year Crean figures it all out. ***holds breath***

Hasn't done it in 16 years, given far too much time maybe he will eventually....maybe, seriously doubt it but maybe.

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,389]

Yeah I agree. Those words were in a joking and wishful tone. I'm concerned as well.

[Darko240 15]

I say Yes and Yes.    Now my second yes comes with difficulty because I'd love to have a Brad Stevens who would teach basic fundamentals like defense rather then letting the team personality decide what they are going to focus on.   As much as I am a giant critic of Crean,  and many of us are because we have seen the greatest strategist in the history of college basketball and our current coach that is his weak point for sure.   Crean has delivered some pretty talented teams since he has been here.   Imagine last year with Trey Lyles actually staying.   This day and age recruiting is a bigger part of the game, and that is where Crean shines.   Those so quick to have him fired after pulling your hair during games have got to remember the next coach may not be able to land a single McDonalds All All American and Crean lands one every year.   

 

You've always got to remember that the grass may not be as greener on the other side as you think it is.

[swatford 1,235]

I say Yes and Yes.    Now my second yes comes with difficulty because I'd love to have a Brad Stevens who would teach basic fundamentals like defense rather then letting the team personality decide what they are going to focus on.   As much as I am a giant critic of Crean,  and many of us are because we have seen the greatest strategist in the history of college basketball and our current coach that is his weak point for sure.   Crean has delivered some pretty talented teams since he has been here.   Imagine last year with Trey Lyles actually staying.   This day and age recruiting is a bigger part of the game, and that is where Crean shines.   Those so quick to have him fired after pulling your hair during games have got to remember the next coach may not be able to land a single McDonalds All All American and Crean lands one every year.   

 

You've always got to remember that the grass may not be as greener on the other side as you think it is.

I'm going to be supportive of Crean in the near future. Long term.....we'll see

[JSHoosier 20,253]

I say Yes and Yes. Now my second yes comes with difficulty because I'd love to have a Brad Stevens who would teach basic fundamentals like defense rather then letting the team personality decide what they are going to focus on. As much as I am a giant critic of Crean, and many of us are because we have seen the greatest strategist in the history of college basketball and our current coach that is his weak point for sure. Crean has delivered some pretty talented teams since he has been here. Imagine last year with Trey Lyles actually staying. This day and age recruiting is a bigger part of the game, and that is where Crean shines. Those so quick to have him fired after pulling your hair during games have got to remember the next coach may not be able to land a single McDonalds All All American and Crean lands one every year.

You've always got to remember that the grass may not be as greener on the other side as you think it is.

Davis landed McD AAs IIRC as well as Sampson. Being Indiana would help a coach recruit, plus Crean didn't land any before he got here either.

[HoosierReb01 7,511]

I say Yes and Yes.    Now my second yes comes with difficulty because I'd love to have a Brad Stevens who would teach basic fundamentals like defense rather then letting the team personality decide what they are going to focus on.   As much as I am a giant critic of Crean,  and many of us are because we have seen the greatest strategist in the history of college basketball and our current coach that is his weak point for sure.   Crean has delivered some pretty talented teams since he has been here.   Imagine last year with Trey Lyles actually staying.   This day and age recruiting is a bigger part of the game, and that is where Crean shines.   Those so quick to have him fired after pulling your hair during games have got to remember the next coach may not be able to land a single McDonalds All All American and Crean lands one every year.   

 

You've always got to remember that the grass may not be as greener on the other side as you think it is.

I agree with a lot of what you say. But I could care less how many Mickey D's we get if I have to watch the crappy basketball I keep seeing. I don't care if we have the best athletes in the country if we can't play good, hard nosed fundamentally sound basketball. Recruiting is very important, but I'm not really all that impressed with the "let's recruit the next shiny new 4 star" approach. No balance of any sort in the recruiting either by class or position makes Crean's shine in that area somewhat grimy.

[Class of '66 Old Fart 84,773]

I agree with a lot of what you say. But I could care less how many Mickey D's we get if I have to watch the crappy basketball I keep seeing. I don't care if we have the best athletes in the country if we can't play good, hard nosed fundamentally sound basketball. Recruiting is very important, but I'm not really all that impressed with the "let's recruit the next shiny new 4 star" approach. No balance of any sort in the recruiting either by class or position makes Crean's shine in that area somewhat grimy.

 

Amen!

[CrossboneIU22 1,193]

I'm not suggesting that people are happy about it, just that sometimes our passion for IU basketball makes us a little irrational from time to time. It certainly did seem, at least to me, that there was enough momentum behind the notion that Crean was going to get fired yet almost half of us thought he would be.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying but I don't think it was irrational though to think and feel he should have been gone because, that is what should have happened. The reason people didn't think it would happen even though it should have is due to no confidence in the AD to do the rational and correct thing which was to get rid of Crean and get the correct guy in here (which is clearly not Crean).

[CrossboneIU22 1,193]

You've always got to remember that the grass may not be as greener on the other side as you think it is.

You're correct in that the grass may not always be greener, but when your grass is brown, patchy, and sometimes hanging on by a thread, even though your giving it good seed and fertilizer, the other side has a much better likelihood of being better than what you have.

[Old Friend 8,389]

Look...right now, if not Crean, we have "our guy."   The "right man" for Indiana is a one man list if Crean were not here.   If we can't get Brad Stevens, there's no point in making a change.   He's the one guy I think most everyone would agree is "right" for this job, this program, this university, and this state; and I'd bet on him giving great odds.  I would not say that about any other coach right now.   So....Go Tom.

 

In the coming years, he'll either figure it out or he won't.   He'll either figure out ball movement or he won't.  He'll value defense or he won't.  He'll stop putting up with poor effort and arrests or he won't.   He'll either win consistently, or he won't.    Next season is - in reality - of little to no consequence.  We may be very, very good.  But in 2016, we lose at least 4 or 5 very good players; and we'll be left again with a very young, devoid-of-leadership team....unless some things change.    And....they either will....or they won't.   

 

I think at some point in the next 3-6 years, Brad Stevens coaches college basketball again.   If he does, Indiana needs to hire him regardless of who has the job or how he's doing.   If he decides he's an NBA lifer and won't coach in college again....then, IU needs to re-evaluate.   But...Tom Crean cannot hide the fact that without Cody Zeller, he is 1-8 against Northwestern.  He cannot hide that his 6th and 7th seasons at IU resulted in an overall record of just 37-29 with no post-season wins and a losing conference record.  He cannot hide that he has a losing or .500 conference record in 5 of his 7 seasons at Indiana.  That simply is not good enough.  He knows it.  Glass knows it.  We all know it.  The trustees know it.  The foundation (who collects donations) knows it.   The Varsity Club knows it.  And one season - 2015-2016 - won't change the facts.   If Stevens won't come right now...okay.   It's Tom Crean's program because it makes no sense to buy him out for "some other guy."  It would for Stevens.  So...it's put up or shut up time.   Tom Crean HAS to win in EACH of his next 2-3 seasons.  He cannot have one good one and then another year like two seasons ago or even last season.   Not good enough.

 

He's the coach, and I'm rooting for the team to win, despite what our resident curmudgeon Mr. Bloyer says.   But....I don't think anyone needs to be patient anymore, and I don't think anyone should limit their judgement of Tom Crean to whatever happens next season.   The DNA of Indiana in the modern era (since the 1970's) is "we're in the Big Ten conversation every year."   That should be the bare minimum; and it simply has not been so under Crean.   That has to change...or he's gone.

[swatford 1,235]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying but I don't think it was irrational though to think and feel he should have been gone because, that is what should have happened. The reason people didn't think it would happen even though it should have is due to no confidence in the AD to do the rational and correct thing which was to get rid of Crean and get the correct guy in here (which is clearly not Crean).

I think a lot of people would agree that the rational and correct thing would be to would be not to fire your coach unless you know you have a home run replacement lined up. That is what was the main reason I thought Glass would not fire Crean. Yes, we could've dumped him for an Archie Miller or Greg Marshall but they're not top echelon coaches (great coaches, but IU deserves one of the best, i.e. Stevens or Donovan).

 

Like I've stated elsewhere in this forum, Crean has my support for the short-term, but we'll see for the long-term.

 

Edit: Old Friend beat me to my comments

[ALASKA HOOSIER 11,276]

Look...right now, if not Crean, we have "our guy."   The "right man" for Indiana is a one man list if Crean were not here.   If we can't get Brad Stevens, there's no point in making a change.   He's the one guy I think most everyone would agree is "right" for this job, this program, this university, and this state; and I'd bet on him giving great odds.  I would not say that about any other coach right now.   So....Go Tom.

 

In the coming years, he'll either figure it out or he won't.   He'll either figure out ball movement or he won't.  He'll value defense or he won't.  He'll stop putting up with poor effort and arrests or he won't.   He'll either win consistently, or he won't.    Next season is - in reality - of little to no consequence.  We may be very, very good.  But in 2016, we lose at least 4 or 5 very good players; and we'll be left again with a very young, devoid-of-leadership team....unless some things change.    And....they either will....or they won't.   

 

I think at some point in the next 3-6 years, Brad Stevens coaches college basketball again.   If he does, Indiana needs to hire him regardless of who has the job or how he's doing.   If he decides he's an NBA lifer and won't coach in college again....then, IU needs to re-evaluate.   But...Tom Crean cannot hide the fact that without Cody Zeller, he is 1-8 against Northwestern.  He cannot hide that his 6th and 7th seasons at IU resulted in an overall record of just 37-29 with no post-season wins and a losing conference record.  He cannot hide that he has a losing or .500 conference record in 5 of his 7 seasons at Indiana.  That simply is not good enough.  He knows it.  Glass knows it.  We all know it.  The trustees know it.  The foundation (who collects donations) knows it.   The Varsity Club knows it.  And one season - 2015-2016 - won't change the facts.   If Stevens won't come right now...okay.   It's Tom Crean's program because it makes no sense to buy him out for "some other guy."  It would for Stevens.  So...it's put up or shut up time.   Tom Crean HAS to win in EACH of his next 2-3 seasons.  He cannot have one good one and then another year like two seasons ago or even last season.   Not good enough.

 

He's the coach, and I'm rooting for the team to win, despite what our resident curmudgeon Mr. Bloyer says.   But....I don't think anyone needs to be patient anymore, and I don't think anyone should limit their judgement of Tom Crean to whatever happens next season.   The DNA of Indiana in the modern era (since the 1970's) is "we're in the Big Ten conversation every year."   That should be the bare minimum; and it simply has not been so under Crean.   That has to change...or he's gone.

I'm rooting for Crean and IU too!

[CrossboneIU22 1,193]

I think a lot of people would agree that the rational and correct thing would be to would be not to fire your coach unless you know you have a home run replacement lined up. That is what was the main reason I thought Glass would not fire Crean. Yes, we could've dumped him for an Archie Miller or Greg Marshall but they're not top echelon coaches (great coaches, but IU deserves one of the best, i.e. Stevens or Donovan).

 

Like I've stated elsewhere in this forum, Crean has my support for the short-term, but we'll see for the long-term.

 

Edit: Old Friend beat me to my comments

 

I don't disagree that the "one" is Brad Stevens.  But you can't just sit back on your hands waiting for something that may never happen.  The only way in my opinion that you don't make the move this offseason (too late now in my opinion to do anything this offseason) is if you are 100% sure that you can get that "one".  If there is the slightest chance that you cannot get him, i.e. he never becomes available, then you have to move on to the next option because IU deserves better than what we have.  Greg Marshal would have been my 1B (Stevens obviously 1A) and as I said before, if you are not 100% you can get Stevens, then you make the move now.  Anyone who teaches solid D, runs a fundamentally sound offense who does not rely on gimmicks or pure athleticism would be an upgrade.  Basketball is not that complicated of a sport.   Archie Miller would even be a better choice than Crean.  At least with him, there would be hope.  Crean has lost all hope.  He has shown that he cannot adjust and grow as a coach.  The only thing that has changed from year 1 to year 7 is the talent level.  The coaching is still poor.  The substitutions and lineups are poor, the offensive sets are poor, the defense is poor, the preparation and half time adjustments are terrible.  The only thing under Crean that works is our transition game.  If you take that away, we are well below a .500 team over his time here and that is just unacceptable.  

 

I will almost guarantee you how this season will go.  

 

1.  We will win the cupcakes by 20-30 points early in the season.

2.  We will play well in Maui but will lose at least 1 game.

3.  We will play well the rest of the non conference season but will possibly lose 1 more game somewhere in there.

--This puts us somewhere around 12-1, 11-2 or at worst 10-3 heading into conference play.  (10 - 3 or worse and you're going to start hearing rumblings early from the fan base)

 

4.  To start conference play will depend on what the schedule looks like.  If its a tough beginning, then looking at a 3-3 or 4-2 start.  Easy schedule and we looking at probably a 5-1 or 6-0 start.

5.  Then we are going to hit a patch where we play terrible one game, great the next, win one or two we shouldn't and lose one or two we shouldn't and come out 3-3 or 4-2.

 

--This puts us somewhere in the neighborhood of 9-3, 8-4 or 7-5 in conference play, probably anywhere around 2nd-5th place in the league.

 

6.  Then the wheels fall off.  We go anywhere in the neighborhood of 1-5 or 2-4 or at the very best 3-3.  Putting us somewhere around .500% or slightly above in conference play and a 5th,6th or 7th place finish with a 5 - 8 seed in the NCAA tourney and a sweet 16 exit.

 

And this would be an unacceptable season. 

[XLevel 144]

What makes you think his relationships with players is so great, he seems to run a lot of them off.

Bryant hasn't commited yet and his recruiting is actually highly suspect, if you have paid attention.

Ability to develop talent? Seriously?

Yes, develop talent. Oladipo has been a rocketship. Wade is likely a HOF'er. Zeller continues to play well. Vonleh will likely start next year with the finish he had.

Yes, his players love him. Wade, Oladipo, Zeller, etc. continue to come back to support him in recruiting, etc. Yogi & Troy both said they would only return for CTC.

AND now we have Bryant.

Guess my post wasn't as far fetched as you thought.

[Old Friend 8,389]

I don't disagree that the "one" is Brad Stevens.  But you can't just sit back on your hands waiting for something that may never happen.  The only way in my opinion that you don't make the move this offseason (too late now in my opinion to do anything this offseason) is if you are 100% sure that you can get that "one".  If there is the slightest chance that you cannot get him, i.e. he never becomes available, then you have to move on to the next option because IU deserves better than what we have.  Greg Marshal would have been my 1B (Stevens obviously 1A) and as I said before, if you are not 100% you can get Stevens, then you make the move now.  Anyone who teaches solid D, runs a fundamentally sound offense who does not rely on gimmicks or pure athleticism would be an upgrade.  Basketball is not that complicated of a sport.   Archie Miller would even be a better choice than Crean.  At least with him, there would be hope.  Crean has lost all hope.  He has shown that he cannot adjust and grow as a coach.  The only thing that has changed from year 1 to year 7 is the talent level.  The coaching is still poor.  The substitutions and lineups are poor, the offensive sets are poor, the defense is poor, the preparation and half time adjustments are terrible.  The only thing under Crean that works is our transition game.  If you take that away, we are well below a .500 team over his time here and that is just unacceptable.  

 

I will almost guarantee you how this season will go.  

 

1.  We will win the cupcakes by 20-30 points early in the season.

2.  We will play well in Maui but will lose at least 1 game.

3.  We will play well the rest of the non conference season but will possibly lose 1 more game somewhere in there.

--This puts us somewhere around 12-1, 11-2 or at worst 10-3 heading into conference play.  (10 - 3 or worse and you're going to start hearing rumblings early from the fan base)

 

4.  To start conference play will depend on what the schedule looks like.  If its a tough beginning, then looking at a 3-3 or 4-2 start.  Easy schedule and we looking at probably a 5-1 or 6-0 start.

5.  Then we are going to hit a patch where we play terrible one game, great the next, win one or two we shouldn't and lose one or two we shouldn't and come out 3-3 or 4-2.

 

--This puts us somewhere in the neighborhood of 9-3, 8-4 or 7-5 in conference play, probably anywhere around 2nd-5th place in the league.

 

6.  Then the wheels fall off.  We go anywhere in the neighborhood of 1-5 or 2-4 or at the very best 3-3.  Putting us somewhere around .500% or slightly above in conference play and a 5th,6th or 7th place finish with a 5 - 8 seed in the NCAA tourney and a sweet 16 exit.

 

And this would be an unacceptable season. 

I think we'll be better than that next season.    Not because of Crean's system or because he'll do anything differently, but because we'll have experienced players, we'll be longer and more athletic; we'll have less dead weight on the bench, and God willing, we'll be healthy.   As long as this group puts any kind of effort into defense, they'll win 24+ games next season and be ranked all year.  The key is how do they follow that up?    If you're right, he's gone.  There is no chance he comes back without a drastic, noticeable, tangible improvement over the last couple of seasons.   I think he'll show that, but he has to keep it up.   If he doesn't....he's also gone.

[Old Friend 8,389]

Yes, develop talent. Oladipo has been a rocketship. Wade is likely a HOF'er. Zeller continues to play well. Vonleh will likely start next year with the finish he had.

Yes, his players love him. Wade, Oladipo, Zeller, etc. continue to come back to support him in recruiting, etc. Yogi & Troy both said they would only return for CTC.

AND now we have Bryant.

Guess my post wasn't as far fetched as you thought.

Cherry pick, much?  Ask Austin Etherington what he thinks of him.   Ask Matt Roth.  Ask Maurice Creek.  Ask Bobby Capobianco.   Ask Nick Williams.   Etc.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Cherry pick, much? Ask Austin Etherington what he thinks of him. Ask Matt Roth. Ask Maurice Creek. Ask Bobby Capobianco. Ask Nick Williams. Etc.

Those guys aren't even in the same universe potential-wise, except Creek who suffered all of those terrible injuries. He gave examples of individuals who Crean helped develop to a level well beyond expectations. A comparison like Hollowell or Stanford would have been much more appropriate.