College Bball Thread

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Anyone catch the Brad Davison elbow that they reviewed and didn't call a flagrant?  Michigan bench was incensed and got called for a technical.  Juwan Howard said it fired his team up and then did seem to go on a run after that in their win.
Certainly looked flagrant to me......don't know many guys who go in for layups with their elbows spread and leaning into the defender.  Dude is as cheap a player as I've seen.
 

Do you know if there is video

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[Uspshoosier]

11 minutes ago, brumdog45 said:

My point is that they changed the horrible tool to just a slightly better one that is STILL worse than a couple of systems whose founders will tell you their systems shouldn't be used for selections.

Again, you've cited NET as a 'sorting tool'.  But, again, 31 and 51 aren't comparably ranked teams.  We aren't talking about teams a few spots apart.  

In the top 11 teams in NET is one team that is rated as a 9 seed in the bracket matrix and another that is a 13 seed IF they win their conference.  

My point is simple:  what is the point of the NCAA having their own tool IF that tool is worse than tools that already exist and those tools aren't even designed to do what NET does?  Isn't NET supposed to correct things that Pom or Sagarin does to put them into a more ranked form used to compare teams for selection?  Because if that is what it is supposed to do, it is failing miserably.

https://www.ncaa.com/video/basketball-men/2020-05-12/net-rankings-update-dan-gavitt-breaks-down-changes-2020-21-season

I’m not aware of the committee  using the NET to correct things to Pom and Sagarin. They wanted a system that took into account predictive and results base.  Pom is predictive and RPI was results base.   NET combines both predictive and results base into their formula.  
 
I found this video from earlier in the year

hope this helps answer your question on some of the things that go into the NET 

[RaceToTheTop]

58 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

https://www.ncaa.com/video/basketball-men/2020-05-12/net-rankings-update-dan-gavitt-breaks-down-changes-2020-21-season

I’m not aware of the committee  using the NET to correct things to Pom and Sagarin. They wanted a system that took into account predictive and results base.  Pom is predictive and RPI was results base.   NET combines both predictive and results base into their formula.  
 
I found this video from earlier in the year

hope this helps answer your question on some of the things that go into the NET 

My point is that while the NCAA says NET 'combines both predictive and results base into their formula', it does a horrible job of it.  Stated intention speaks nothing as to success of that intention.

Let's assume that the NCAA's goal was to produce the most deserving -- based on both results and predictive -- group of teams and we simply went from highest rated on down to choose them.  My point is that the group of teams that Pom or Sagarin would produce with this method would produce a better field both in terms of results and prediction than NET does.....so what is the point of having NET if it doesn't produce results better than systems which aren't even designed to accomplish this feat.

Final question:  if you took the thirty highest rated at large teams from last year (or this year) on NET, Pom, and Sagarin, which set in your opinion would produce:  1.  the best teams based on the game results of their season?  and 2.  the best teams based on their future predictive power?  My contention is that in BOTH cases, it would be Pom or Sagarin.  If NET isn't getting the best teams in #1, what is the point of using it?

[Uspshoosier]

10 hours ago, brumdog45 said:

 

Final question:  if you took the thirty highest rated at large teams from last year (or this year) on NET, Pom, and Sagarin, which set in your opinion would produce:  1.  the best teams based on the game results of their season?  and 2.  the best teams based on their future predictive power?  My contention is that in BOTH cases, it would be Pom or Sagarin.  If NET isn't getting the best teams in #1, what is the point of using it?

Not sure on which would produce the best teams.   NET has only been used for 2 seasons since last year was cancelled.  I will try and go back and look but if I had to guess I would say that for the most part  they  will produce the majority of the same teams.     Each will produce teams that will scratch your head on why they are high.   This is why  one metric is  not the end of all be all of a teams selection.   Each committee member factors in what they think is important.   While Ken Pom doesn’t like the fact his metric is used during selection  doesn’t mean it isn’t used by committee members.   All the important metrics are  on the team sheets.  
 

With Ken Pom you can go back and click on each year and by the team he will display what seed they got in the tournament and non bold number by NIT teams so you can see how is final projections matched up.  I always found them interesting.   Not sure if the other metrics do that but something to check out if you got the time 

[Uspshoosier]

I absolutely love the bracketology and metric discussion.   It’s always good to see how others feel on the process.    

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

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[LIHoosier]

If qualifying schools don't opt out, this proposed NIT will likely have more brand names than the NCAA's

 

[LIHoosier]

Anybody want to suit up and travel to Tobacco Road tomorrow?

 

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

7 minutes ago, LIHoosier said:

Anybody want to suit up and travel to Tobacco Road tomorrow?

 

Im in. 

[RaceToTheTop]

20 hours ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

Do you know if there is video

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Sorry, meant to get back to you.  Can't find a real good video on it.  Big Ten didn't put it in their highlight reel.  Here is CBS's game highlights but still doesn't show the actual contact.  You can see it in real time from a bad angle.  Start around the 10:35 mark.  They show it again about 15 seconds later, but the footage starts after the contact.  It was pretty clear he had extended his elbows out into Smith.

 

[RaceToTheTop]

IU v Iowa in 60 on BTN right now.

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Sorry, meant to get back to you.  Can't find a real good video on it.  Big Ten didn't put it in their highlight reel.  Here is CBS's game highlights but still doesn't show the actual contact.  You can see it in real time from a bad angle.  Start around the 10:35 mark.  They show it again about 15 seconds later, but the footage starts after the contact.  It was pretty clear he had extended his elbows out into Smith.
 

I don't like him, but truthfully, to me, I didn't think there was anything flagrant.

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[Class of '66 Old Fart]

Duke freshman forward and projected lottery pick Jalen Johnson has opted out the remainder of the 2020-21 season, multiple sources confirmed to ZAGSBLOG Monday.  Johnson cleaned out his locker this morning, per source.  Johnson, a 6-foot-9, 220-pound small forward out of Nicolet (WI) High School, is averaging 11.2 points, 6.1 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 1.2 blocks and 1.2 steals per game in 21.4 minutes per game.  Johnson is rated as the No. 6 best prospect in ESPN’s 2021 NBA Draft best available players list.  After a 19-point, 19-rebound performance in his season-debut against Coppin State on Nov. 28, Johnson has seen his minutes decrease throughout this season.  Johnson has been absent from the starting lineup the last three games.   He played only eight minutes and scored three points in Duke’s win over NC State on Saturday.

[kreigh8]

3 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

Duke freshman forward and projected lottery pick Jalen Johnson has opted out the remainder of the 2020-21 season, multiple sources confirmed to ZAGSBLOG Monday.  Johnson cleaned out his locker this morning, per source.  Johnson, a 6-foot-9, 220-pound small forward out of Nicolet (WI) High School, is averaging 11.2 points, 6.1 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 1.2 blocks and 1.2 steals per game in 21.4 minutes per game.  Johnson is rated as the No. 6 best prospect in ESPN’s 2021 NBA Draft best available players list.  After a 19-point, 19-rebound performance in his season-debut against Coppin State on Nov. 28, Johnson has seen his minutes decrease throughout this season.  Johnson has been absent from the starting lineup the last three games.   He played only eight minutes and scored three points in Duke’s win over NC State on Saturday.

Would love to be a fly on the wall in those draft interviews when he's asked why he quit on his team. Talent wins in the NBA, but that's not a good look. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart]

4 minutes ago, kreigh8 said:

Would love to be a fly on the wall in those draft interviews when he's asked why he quit on his team. Talent wins in the NBA, but that's not a good look. 

Another case of a badly bruised ego.

[LamarCheeks]

The No. 32 ranked player in the 2022 class just decommitted from Michigan State because he sees a logjam in their frontcourt. BTW, he's 6-10 and 240 pounds and is from Canada.

Hey Enoch -- we got no logjam anywhere. Come on down! 
 

 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

This is why I don't have a problem not recruiting high 5 stars. It's bad enough only having them 1 year, but now this. Maybe part of it is Duke may not go to Tournament.

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[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

This is why I don't have a problem not recruiting high 5 stars. It's bad enough only having them 1 year, but now this. Maybe part of it is Duke may not go to Tournament.




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Here is the article

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[HoosierAloha]

FSU is taking UVA to the woodshed early.


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[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, woodenshoemanHoosierfan said:

I don't like him, but truthfully, to me, I didn't think there was anything flagrant.

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From the angles shown there, I didn't think so as well.  The first angle was behind the play and the second video started after the contact.  But the best view was an overhead shot they had which showed him leading with his elbow......not saying he was intentionally trying to elbow him in the head, but he definitely was trying to clear space with his elbow.  And it was really unnecessary -- Smith never left the floor and isn't any kind of shot blocker anyway.  My thing is that regardless of whether he was trying to hit him in the head, it was clear he was clearing space with his elbows -- something that is a flagrant foul.  And there is enough in his background that I don't think he deserves any benefit of the doubt.