BTown Banners guide to success 2013-14

[schoosier 3,487]

Instead of the topics that end with I love Coach he is our savior or I hate Coach he can't coach, I thought I would start a topic regarding what you think it will take for us to be successful. What offense would you utilize our guard heavy team? What defense would you have Crean run to maximize our strengths? Press?

Then, what do you think our opponents will play against us both offense and defense? I have made several references on both, but I'm interested in our collective basketball knowledge. I would be esp interested in some different thinking, as I think its going to some of this to win. I will respond if you want my ideas although most probably know.

[bleedhoosier 3,627]

Well with out putting too much into this post since I'm smashing homemade bikits and gravy (AKA CAT HEADS AND POOR DEW) with homemade rasberry jelly, I would literally feed the post or force a switch out up top so Hanner and DD have to guard the guards then drive on them.. This is an instant formula for making our thin post play, non existent.

[bleedhoosier 3,627]

And we have never had guard depth like we have right now in Crean's tenure so if he ever wanted to hush them puppies, this would be the year to engage the "hush puppy press"...

[Lt. John McClaine 541]

I see us as a Drive and Kick kind of offense with lots of movement, and some more high screen and roll action that we've seen in years past.  I would think that we'd shoot more 3's than our opponent in about 85% of our games.  Defensively, I do not see us pressing much, but I could see us trapping occasionally just to slow teams down a bit, and I see us playing man to man and Zone when the situation allows for it.  

 

I see teams attacking us like they always do.  Slowing down the Pace!  Teams will force us to play defense and eat up the shot clock against us.  They will have to know that we're thin up front so Coaches will want to make our bigs play defense, they will feed the post and utilize head fakes, shot fakes, and reversals to get our guys to foul or get out of position.  This is the first year in a while that I actually want us to play Zone defense, exclusively, because I think we have the personnel to be successful at it.  GO IU!

[JSHoosier 20,266]

Defensively I'd press, but we haven't seen Crean do that much here expect for having a player just shadow the ball handler up the court giving token pressure.  Half court defense in theory would be a 2-3 zone; it's designed to protect the paint, where we're thin at, and with our athletes we could be aggressive and trap to try and create turnovers.  Although I've never been a fan of seeing us run zone, I'd have to see numbers from a much larger sample than one or two games showing that we're any good at it.

 

Teams are going to try and attack us inside, if we run man our perimeter players will have to stay in front of their man to help limit the foul opportunities of Hanner and Davis (Holt is an undersized true freshman, I wouldn't expect much from him this year).  Defensively I wouldn't be surprised to see our opponents let Hanner and Davis "get their's" and force them to beat them.

[schoosier 3,487]

We need to be uptempo so a press would be n obvious choice. Our depth concerns me and so I think a 3/4 or half court trap with Troy out front would work and puts him in an offensive position if we can get some steals. I also agree this year the high screens would be an excellent choice for penetration and kick outs. The defense would either have to hedge the screens to protect the drive or lay off which would give us the jumpers.

Our opponents will exploit our lack of depth so they will immediately go underneath to try and get Hanner and devin in foul trouble. This is where a trap could be effective to make it hard for passing entries to the post. I also think they will allow Yogi to shoot all he wants; the same for Troy and Stan since all three slash well. JB2 will be blanketed so I could see a box and one used on JB2.

If we could get some quality minutes from Z, Colin, Max, and Holt we could really utilize the uptempo game. Long term in the B1G, I think a frenetic pace with high scoring will put us in the most succesful position to succeed. Of course other teams will try to slow us down, but our goal should be getting shots up in the fast break, secondary break, or soon into the shot clock.

[schoosier 3,487]

I'm in agreement that using a zone helps with inside protection. It also slows down the game without forcing the tempo. Maybe a combo 1-3-1 zone strating at halfcourt with trapping employed in it may help, but this may channel penetrations to our bigs which has me concerned. We could wait until the ball gets into the deep corners before trapping and slide a guard over to the middle to protect the cutters. I think a trapping defense could also be changed lot so it would be hard for teams to game plan, but we're talking top coaches in our league.

[KingPG21 6,587]

Do we even have the personal to run the press consistently? Yogi is up there defensively, then who? None of the freshmen from last really showed enough consistently to instill confidence. JBJ by all accounts isn't very good defensively, so I would feel comfortable running him in that defense. Not to mention if they beat our press, which with our personal seems to happen more likely than not, leaves Hanner (whose positioning sucked last year) or DD as our last line of defense against multiple guys

[bleedhoosier 3,627]

Do we even have the personal to run the press consistently? Yogi is up there defensively, then who? None of the freshmen from last really showed enough consistently to instill confidence. JBJ by all accounts isn't very good defensively, so I would feel comfortable running him in that defense. Not to mention if they beat our press, which with our personal seems to happen more likely than not, leaves Hanner (whose positioning sucked last year) or DD as our last line of defense against multiple guys

From my couch it looked like Stan had big time defensive potential. When he wanted to be, he was an excellent on ball defender and I think we see that become more of his identity this year but u are correct on that no one else stood out. Troy is long enough to be a very good deflector and steal guy. I'm excited to see how Devin looks as a more experienced junk yard dog

[KingPG21 6,587]

From my couch it looked like Stan had big time defensive potential. When he wanted to be, he was an excellent on ball defender and I think we see that become more of his identity this year but u are correct on that no one else stood out. Troy is long enough to be a very good deflector and steal guy. I'm excited to see how Devin looks as a more experienced junk yard dog

Potential is kind of meaningless until they show anything. Stan actually showed flashes, Troy never showed anything, DD didn't really either. 

[bleedhoosier 3,627]

Potential is kind of meaningless until they show anything. Stan actually showed flashes, Troy never showed anything, DD didn't really either.

We're on the same page. Stan showed "flashes" aka potential. Troy showed he is lengthy enough to disrupt passes but had poor positioning and would get tired and stand up instead of keeping his but down.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Good idea for a topic.

 

I think this team is going to have to play a fair amount of zone to stay out of foul trouble. If Hanner's missteps defensively are somewhat corrected, it may not have to be a regular thing but I'll believe that when I see it.

 

Offensively, I think IU is working towards a team similar to Crean's last at MU. Ferrell-Blackmon-Johnson instead of James-McNeal-Matthews. All three guys attack the rim, all three play in the mid range, and all three you can't leave open on the outside. Troy and Stan should have some good spots to do their thing as well; when you have guys who make baskets, it's a whole different game. Hanner, Devin, and Holt should have lots of offensive rebounding opportunities as well as chances to finish above the rim off of perimeter drives and dump downs.

 

Big questions/concerns are how Indiana guards the post considering Hanner and Devin have shown little ability to keep it away from their man. He's still a freshman, but Holt is a guy that seems to have a knack for playing one on one down there. He has a knack for getting his hands/arms in a lot of plays at the rim. On nights when we may not shoot as well, it will be interesting to see if Troy's talent or James' talent can take over and make plays.

 

Yogi had a pretty good year last year all things considered; it's exciting to think about what he can do with some really skilled and knowledgable players around him. This team should be pretty hard to guard if they move the ball like they did this summer.

[BostonCooler 34]

Can someone explain the pros and cons of the 1-3-1 and 2-3 zones? And would the teams length and lack if post play, would a zone be a better fit?

[Lt. John McClaine 541]

I don't think that I want to see us play a full court pressing defense.  Like someone else noted,Coach Crean will occasionally have one guy, usually a Yogi, or Oladipo when he was here, apply pressure to the ball handler, but that's about it.  I'd much rather see our staff take a page out of John Belein's book and run an unconventional trapping style defense to just slow the other team down, and then we can fall much easier into a 1-3-1 zone or 3-2 zone or whatever they choose to run.  I'm very optimistic that we'll be better at playing Zone this year, because we've had a head start at learning it.  The Canada trip will definitely pay dividends this year. Remember last year, Yogi and Will were in Russia playing for the Amateur USA team and they didn't even join the team back in Bloomington until October I believe.  We've got to be miles ahead this year compared to where we were last year.  

 

Usually the B1G is exclusively a man to man defensive conference.  Most of the good teams in Conference play strictly man to man, there are a few exceptions but that's seems to be the case each year.  Teams that play Zone in the B1G usally do so out of necessity because of size or lack of quickness or to avoid fouls.  However, I really like our ability or potential, if you will, to play an effective Zone defense.  We definitely have quickness with the amount of guards that we have on the roster.  We also have length with guys like Troy, Hanner, Holt, and even Ziesloft and Hoetzel to an extent.  If coached correctly and the team buys in, then I feel that our length will make us a decent Zone defensive team.  The scary part of playing a Zone is just giving up a lot of Three Pointers with the Ball Reversals, but that is where the length comes in.  If we can score at a high rate on Offense it will only help our Zone defense.  I'm kind of excited about the Zone, if you can't tell. Go IU. 

[JSHoosier 20,266]

Can someone explain the pros and cons of the 1-3-1 and 2-3 zones? And would the teams length and lack if post play, would a zone be a better fit?

A 2-3 is designed to protect the paint, which would actually help our thin front court if we could run it effectively. It's more difficult to rebound out of a zone though and it's open in the high post and can be beaten if a team is shooting well from outside.

 

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/23zonedefense.html

 

A 1-3-1 puts more pressure outside and on the high post.  It's weak if you attack from the corners.

 

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/131zonedefense.html

 

EDIT:  I knew about the 2-3, but not the 1-3-1.  I provided the links so you could read more about them.  Personally, I'm not a fan of a zone I prefer man defense.

[Lt. John McClaine 541]

I'm curious to see if Crean will play Devin Davis and Hanner at the same time, or be reluctant to since he'll most likely sub them in for each other and for the fear of quick foul trouble.  I know he likes to use a play making 4 rather than a traditional bruiser at 4, so I see Troy being that guy.    Last year he tried and tried to make Jeremy Hollowell that guy but he just kept turning the ball over and he couldn't score.  I really don't know who will be his back up, though.  It might actually be a guard like a Zeisloft or a Stan Robinson, and we go real small.  

 

To me Troy, Devin and Hanner are the keys for us this year.  I have complete faith in our back court, and I think that we'll have one of the better back courts in conference.  Our Front court has many more question marks but if Troy can take a big step, which many think that he will, then that will help out immensely.  Many people think that he'll make an Oladipo sized jump, and if so, well imagine the power forwards in Conference trying to guard him.  He's the one guy in our front court that I can see getting the other teams forwards in foul trouble.  Now, as far as Hanner and Devin, they absolutely have to play smart and play defense without silly fouls, they also have to give us something offensively so we are harder to guard.  We can't be a team that only has our guards scoring, we have to have our Front Court draw fouls, and by doing that they all have to be aggressive, hit the glass, and go to the rim hard.  Is it inconceivable to see Hanner and Devin doubling their scoring output from last year?  I don't think so, and if they do, then I really think we'll be a tough team to defend.  Teams might actually have to go small to match up against us, rather than us having to play big to match them.  

[BostonCooler 34]

A 2-3 is designed to protect the paint, which would actually help our thin front court if we could run it effectively. It's more difficult to rebound out of a zone though and it's open in the high post and can be beaten if a team is shooting well from outside.

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/23zonedefense.html

A 1-3-1 puts more pressure outside and on the high post. It's weak if you attack from the corners.

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/131zonedefense.html

EDIT: I knew about the 2-3, but not the 1-3-1. I provided the links so you could read more about them. Personally, I'm not a fan of a zone I prefer man defense.

Thanks. These articles put it into perspective. I've just never played a game organized enough to do anything other than man.

[ou812dude 3,326]

can somebody please x/o the ozone?

I hear so much talk about it, but never...I mean ever hear IU fans discuss the ozone...

 

I mean...it's time we Hoosiers get up with the uptick of all things defensive...

why the hell is there no discussion of this ozone, and it's breakdown?

[rebelhoosier848891 9,588]

Like this thread that is actually about basketball instead of bashing!

 

I agree we are guard heavy and need to look at up tempo offense--I would love to see some increased trapping and pressing schemes.

But we will definitely need to space the floor and drive and draw the defense and then pass it out to our multitude of 3 point shooters.

 

On Defense I think we have to play a lot of zone unless our bigs play better than we expect.

[Geometry Hoosier 1,151]

can somebody please x/o the ozone?
I hear so much talk about it, but never...I mean ever hear IU fans discuss the ozone...

I mean...it's time we Hoosiers get up with the uptick of all things defensive...
why the hell is there no discussion of this ozone, and it's breakdown?

Supposedly there are some big holes in the ozone.