Does Creans system create good shots?

[NotTheReal HoosierHoopster 67]

I saw a quote that said that if your system relies on great players creating shots, then you really don't have a system. I thought that it sounded an awful lot like Creans tenure here. What the offense was before and after Zeller and VO and what it was with them.

[djsalway 4,161]

...

[Hovadipo 60,125]

Couldn't agree more. Great post.


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[djsalway 4,161]

Don't all teams pretty much rely on their great players to create and make shots at certain points. It's the nature of the game. This year we had Yogi doing whatever he wanted when the "set plays" broke down. It's just how basketball works.

[IUfan_Charlie 3,867]

Nailed it. 

[mdn82 25,923]

Nailed it. 

Charlie how can you agree with this?  Curious because you in one thread say how outmanned a potential Junior All-American is to an incoming freshman in his first month.  Then in the next thread you talk about coaching being the issue?  I see this argument a lot and I am curious how this is.  Are the players not talented because of the system, or is it the system is no good because of the players.  You have essentially picked both sides of this fence in two consecutive threads.  As a fan, not a mod, I am honestly curious how that is possible?  

[HoosierReb01 7,511]

No. The system doesn't. 

[JSHoosier 21,729]

It doesn't.  The system doesn't seem to create a darn thing, it's entirely reliant on a player creating his own shot.  It's why someone can be a good shooter and it won't matter if they don't have the athleticism to create their own shot.  We don't run plays that are designed to get someone open and it's something I hate about this offense.  That and 3 to 4 players standing around watching the ball handler.

[IUfan_Charlie 3,867]

Charlie how can you agree with this?  Curious because you in one thread say how outmanned a potential Junior All-American is to an incoming freshman in his first month.  Then in the next thread you talk about coaching being the issue?  I see this argument a lot and I am curious how this is.  Are the players not talented because of the system, or is it the system is no good because of the players.  You have essentially picked both sides of this fence in two consecutive threads.  As a fan, not a mod, I am honestly curious how that is possible?  

I misunderstood the post lol

[mdn82 25,923]

I misunderstood the post lol

Its all good man.  I am just asking about the difference between coaching and talent.  In one thread the players aren't talented enough.  In another thread the coaching is the cause of everything.  RMK proved you can take mediocre talent with solid coaching and win.  Stevens is the popular modern coach who has shown that.  Is IU a talent issue or a coaching issue?  

[IUfan_Charlie 3,867]

Its all good man.  I am just asking about the difference between coaching and talent.  In one thread the players aren't talented enough.  In another thread the coaching is the cause of everything.  RMK proved you can take mediocre talent with solid coaching and win.  Stevens is the popular modern coach who has shown that.  Is IU a talent issue or a coaching issue?  

imo coaching, I'd be willing to bet Michigan has a better season this year than we did last year even though they have less talent than we did. We had dumb players not untalented ones (mostly). Dumb and immature players stems from a weak coaching staff imo. 

[mdn82 25,923]

imo coaching, I'd be willing to bet Michigan has a better season this year than we did last year even though they have less talent than we did. We had dumb players not untalented ones (mostly). 

Fair enough.  I personally think UM does what they have done historically and that is have 2 or 3 good seasons followed by massively bad seasons.  I think that starts this year.  If they don't?  I will give you props for calling that.  I just don't see it.  They are in worse shape than us down low.  Guard play is ok, but we had better guards.  They don't turn the ball over so that will be telling stat next year for them.  I think coaching was a huge part of the issues last season for us.  I also agree with Crean on the maturity thing.  Even an average intelligence team takes better care of the ball than we did.  I think we had too many high upside athletes instead of some good smart ball players.  Luke is the type of player that comes to mind on an intelligence discussion.  

[NotTheReal HoosierHoopster 67]

Well the excuse that we heard all year was that we didnt have any shooters. I think this is BS because Yogi, Stan, Sheehey, Vonleh and Gordon could all shoot at varying degrees.

[mdn82 25,923]

Well the excuse that we heard all year was that we didnt have any shooters. I think this is BS because Yogi, Stan, Sheehey, Vonleh and Gordon could all shoot at varying degrees.

 

Ha, Yogi and Will yes.  Noah to a degree.  He just took smart shots.  Gordon and Stan?  Not so much.  We should have had athletes going to the rim.  If we were a jumpshooting team we were losing.  Every team tried getting us to do that.  

[KingPG21 6,587]

Well the excuse that we heard all year was that we didnt have any shooters. I think this is BS because Yogi, Stan, Sheehey, Vonleh and Gordon could all shoot at varying degrees.

You might be the first person that I've ever seen say Stan could shoot the ball well

[Hovadipo 60,125]

[quote name="mdn82" post="62889" timestamp="1398538047"]Its all good man. I am just asking about the difference between coaching and talent. In one thread the players aren't talented enough. In another thread the coaching is the cause of everything. RMK proved you can take mediocre talent with solid coaching and win. Stevens is the popular modern coach who has shown that. Is IU a talent issue or a coaching issue? [/quote]

Same thing happened with me. My post was when the OP only said "..." So yeah...


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[Hovadipo 60,125]

[quote name="KingPG21" post="62963" timestamp="1398551180"]You might be the first person that I've ever seen say Stan could shoot the ball well[/quote]

He must've been reading all of the ITH posts that said Stan would be our 3 point threat his first year.


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[KingPG21 6,587]

He must've been reading all of the ITH posts that said Stan would be our 3 point threat his first year.


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I guess, because watching him shoot jump shots this year it was never consistently there. And he obviously has his strengths, getting to the basket, getting to the basket, and getting to the basket again. But shooting the ball wasn't one of them this year

[JSHoosier 21,729]

Well the excuse that we heard all year was that we didnt have any shooters. I think this is BS because Yogi, Stan, Sheehey, Vonleh and Gordon could all shoot at varying degrees.

Stan is a pretty bad shooter, and Gordon has never been much of a shooter himself him being here had as much to do with who his brother is as to what he could bring.

[Myrmidon76 614]

Hate to answer a question with a question, but ...do we set screens as a part of our offense...there's your answer.