Hollowell & Etherington transferring..

[8bucks 6,456]

[quote name="Baltimore Hoosier" post="53796" timestamp="1395842473"]Vonleh and Zeller are the only two Crean players to leave early if memory serves correct.. And guys like Hollowell? Do we really want them on this team to mentor the younger players? I think not.[/quote]

Vic left early as well.

You are right, we may not want attitude issues and if JH had those he should leave if not willing to buy in. So on a stand alone basis his leaving is fine but when you add up the numbers the last couple years the turnover is too high. These are all kids Crean recruited so when several do not work out that is on the coaching staff too.

We were too young last year and relied on freshman and sophomores you said in another post. Well, that is where we will be next year too but now you are optimistic regarding next years freshman and sophomores?

I do not really care if we win with young kids or with veterans but everyone wanted to use youth as an excuse in 13/14. OK, well what changes next year? Sure I think we have to be better than this year but optimism for me is not barely getting into tourney but being a top 16 team with a shot to do even better.

If 2014/15 is the bridge year to an even better 2015 I am cool with that to some extent but at this point I am not seeing any 2015 recruits. If Blackman bolts aster one year then 2015 looks a little less promising.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 48,390]

Indiana BB Guess Who?
#1
 
7.4 PPG
1.1 SPG
3.7 RPG
59% 2P%
30% 3P%
.9 AST
1.4 TO
 
#2
 
7.3 PPG
.8 SPG
4.4 RPG
57% 2P%
21% 3P%
.9 AST
1.8 TO

Without research, player 2 is Troy and player 1 is Evan Gordon??

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,390]

Without research, player 2 is Troy and player 1 is Evan Gordon??

Nah, Evan didnt rebound that well. I am stumped on player 1. Your point?

[EvilleAngler 636]

Sounds to me like JH picked the ganja over his current(past) situation. Not a surprise, knowing a few people in similar situations it doesn't seem that uncommon. None of them seem to be doing well in life, generally.  Best of luck to him.(and everyone else in that boat)

[IUc2016 7,121]

[quote name="Baltimore Hoosier" post="53793" timestamp="1395841529"]Indiana BB Guess Who?
#1

7.4 PPG
1.1 SPG
3.7 RPG
59% 2P%
30% 3P%
.9 AST
1.4 TO

#2

7.3 PPG
.8 SPG
4.4 RPG
57% 2P%
21% 3P%
.9 AST
1.8 TO[/quote]

Player 1 is Vic (freshman year)?


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[eddiejames 25]

[quote name="IUc2016" post="53832" timestamp="1395846894"]Player 1 is Vic (freshman year)?


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Player 2 is Troy


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[IUc2016 7,121]

[quote name="eddiejames" post="53834" timestamp="1395846970"]Player 2 is Troy


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Yeah I know, so I am guessing that is his comparison. The stats are pretty similar



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[Hwy 1 2,053]

You can bet that coach is selling Troy on he can be the next Vic. If he puts the work in he very well could be very similar.

[EvilleAngler 636]

If Troy can improve his shot and quicken his first step along with a crossover, look out. I think with weight training and drills he will be there soon.

 

Was always amazing to see guys I played sports with come back from a summer break to see their improvements. Almost always came down to confidence and attitude.  Those two things made them so much better.

[eddiejsmall 37]

Troy is what Crean likes to call "high-motor". Sometimes he's a little too hyped and causes a few turnovers, but if he can slow down his game. LOOK OUT! Great thing about Vic was his ability to be patient, and then strike when the opportunity presented itself. Troy just seemed to be 120mph the entire time he was in, so I hope to see that improvement over time.


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[IUc2016 7,121]

Yeah I think the patience from Vic came later. I still think he and Troy were one in the same in that early on they always tried to hit the home run. Get on sports center type of plays, rather than making the smart play. Victor was able to realize that making the smart play was better for the team, and his game really improved from it. Hopefully Troy can realize that as well


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[Hovadipo 56,262]

[quote name="LazOffTheBench" post="53879" timestamp="1395851421"]Vic is unique. There will never be another player like him.[/quote]

My thought exactly. Neither Troy nor Stan remind me at all of Vic at any point. Sure, Troy and Vic were both athletic early in their careers. Yogi's athletic. Hanner is athletic. So what? Stan, Troy, and Vic are 3 completely different players.


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[CR3AMnCR1MS0N 1,867]

[quote name="EvilleAngler" post="53840" timestamp="1395847596"]If Troy can improve his shot and quicken his first step along with a crossover, look out. I think with weight training and drills he will be there soon.

Was always amazing to see guys I played sports with come back from a summer break to see their improvements. Almost always came down to confidence and attitude. Those two things made them so much better.[/quote]

Crean is a great wing developer. With as much potential as Troy has, he COULD develop into one of the greatest IU players ever.


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[Rayl 527]

Troy is what Crean likes to call "high-motor". Sometimes he's a little too hyped and causes a few turnovers, but if he can slow down his game. LOOK OUT! Great thing about Vic was his ability to be patient, and then strike when the opportunity presented itself. Troy just seemed to be 120mph the entire time he was in, so I hope to see that improvement over time.


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Troy got much better about that at the end of the season. His overall efficiency on offense went from the low 90s in the first half of the conference season to just over 100 by the end of the season. Looking at the entire season, Troy wasn't quite as efficient as freshman Vic, but I think Troy was equal to Vic by the end of the season.

 

It's probably not fair to expect Troy to turn into junior Vic, but if Troy can improve his shooting and handles half as much as Vic did, he'll be great for us.

[IUc2016 7,121]

Troy got much better about that at the end of the season. His overall efficiency on offense went from the low 90s in the first half of the conference season to just over 100 by the end of the season. Looking at the entire season, Troy wasn't quite as efficient as freshman Vic, but I think Troy was equal to Vic by the end of the season.

 

It's probably not fair to expect Troy to turn into junior Vic, but if Troy can improve his shooting and handles half as much as Vic did, he'll be great for us.

I wholeheartedly agree. Nobody could have expected freshman victor to turn into junior victor. But looking back and seeing the improvement just shows how special he was, and that it can be done. 

 

So like everybody else has been saying.... JUST LIVE IN COOK HALL TROY!! 

[JSHoosier 20,266]

So Crean is to blame for sloppy ball handling? He started 2 or 3 freshmen, and a sophomore every game this season.

 

How could you possibly blame the first 2 or 3 seasons on Crean? He started with NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. He recruited his players and made this a winning team. They went from the basement to the sweet 16 in back to back years. Now this year he's a few games over .500 with a completely revamped lineup and the sky is falling?

 

What was IU doing that was so great before Crean got here? 2002 was an amazing run, but before the last two seasons, if i remember correctly, IU hadn't been to the Sweet 16 in quite some time. This isn't 1987. Crean has had to completely rebuild the IU brand,. Is he the best in-game coach? Absolutely not. Does he make some questionable decisions at times? Yup. But he's built a nice group of recruiters, and has this program back on the right track. Stop hating on the guy for having a mediocre season.

Year 3 should count, it was primarily the same roster as year 4 with only one contributor different and he had players that had been in his system for a minimum of 3 years.  The only reason it shouldn't count is a person wanting to move the goal post so a losing season doesn't count against him, and it doesn't make sense to me.

 

You can blame the youth on Crean.  There hasn't much been roster stability and no class balance at all.  So the youth of the team can and should be placed on his shoulders.  There also wasn't any improvement as a team, individually yes, but not as a team.  That is on him.

 

This wasn't a 'mediocre' season, this was a bad season at best.  More appropriately it's a disaster of a season.  If you can't even make the NIT with 2 McDonald's AAs and a 1,000 point scorer you completely failed, nothing mediocre about it.  If you look at his career, not just his fluke Final Four, mediocre seasons are the norm with some bad mixed in.  He was the coach at Marquette for 9 years and 8 of them were wildly mediocre at best.  I don't think it's fair to say people are "hating" on him for one season, they're uncomfortable with a season that's more in line with his career.  He's only won his conference twice in 15 years, Mike Davis as won it 3 times in 9.

[JSHoosier 20,266]

Good post. I'm with you on this one. I think we are going to be good next year. I think we fill the biggest void we lacked which is shooting. A big isn't essential in Crean's system, so I don't know why people get so bent out of shape on not having a big next year.


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False, a big is essential.  Just because his system sucks at utilizing a big doesn't mean it's not essential.  He needs a big down there to draw the defenses attention and keep them honest, without it they can cheat out on the shooters and take their chances with the other guy.  Think about the difference between year 3 and 4, there was only one real difference and that was the addition of Zeller to keep the defense honest.

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

[quote name="Baltimore Hoosier" post="53793" timestamp="1395841529"]Indiana BB Guess Who?
#1

7.4 PPG
1.1 SPG
3.7 RPG
59% 2P%
30% 3P%
.9 AST
1.4 TO

#2

7.3 PPG
.8 SPG
4.4 RPG
57% 2P%
21% 3P%
.9 AST
1.8 TO[/quote]

Victor & Troy their freshman years? I did zero research to see if that's right.


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[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="53905" timestamp="1395852947"]False, a big is essential. Just because his system sucks at utilizing a big doesn't mean it's not essential. He needs a big down there to draw the defenses attention and keep them honest, without it they can cheat out on the shooters and take their chances with the other guy. Think about the difference between year 3 and 4, there was only one real difference and that was the addition of Zeller to keep the defense honest.[/quote]

I don't think you can compare those players per Zeller to what we have now. This team coming in won't need a big to attract attention. If you close out on our shooters they will drive on you, help side defense comes and they'll kick it out to an open shot from a shooter. I agree a big helps, but I don't think it's necessary in Crean's offense.


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[Rayl 527]

I don't think you can compare those players per Zeller to what we have now. This team coming in won't need a big to attract attention. If you close out on our shooters they will drive on you, help side defense comes and they'll kick it out to an open shot from a shooter. I agree a big helps, but I don't think it's necessary in Crean's offense.


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We could debate whether a big is necessary on offense, but I think we would probably just agree that a big is definitely very helpful if for no other reason than one of the hallmarks of Crean's good teams has always been exceptional offensive rebounding as it is one of the reasons his teams have been able to overcome mediocre to bad turnover rates.

 

We do need a big on defense. I don't think that's really all that debatable.