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mdn82

Tom Crean Poll

Tom Crean Poll  

86 members have voted

  1. 1. How long does Tom Crean stay at IU?



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[quote name="JSHoosier" post="45274" timestamp="1394168538"]Boeheim still had more success than Crean at the same point in their careers. Tom Crean has been a head coach for 15 years and the only thing he has done with any consistency is wallow in mediocrity. In Boeheim's first 15 years he appeared in the Sweet 16 7 times, the Elite 8 twice, the Final Four once and the NC game once; he also won at least a share of the Big East 5 times, had only 1 season with less than 20 wins and missed the tournament a total of twice (one of which was an NIT runner up).

He didn't have a championship, but that is far more success in his first 15 years than Tom Crean has seen.[/quote]


"But this is Indiana... Only Championships matter". So I guess you are stuck with the 20 year comparison again. :)


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Boeheim still had more success than Crean at the same point in their careers.  Tom Crean has been a head coach for 15 years and the only thing he has done with any consistency is wallow in mediocrity.  In Boeheim's first 15 years he appeared in the Sweet 16 7 times, the Elite 8 twice, the Final Four once and the NC game once; he also won at least a share of the Big East 5 times, had only 1 season with less than 20 wins and missed the tournament a total of twice (one of which was an NIT runner up).
 
He didn't have a championship, but that is far more success in his first 15 years than Tom Crean has seen.


listen, friend...I don't care what JB has accomplished...I was merely using him as an example...
Syracuse hasn't faced B1G competition...

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"But this is Indiana... Only Championships matter". So I guess you are stuck with the 20 year comparison again. :)


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I haven't said that, but championships and Final Fours absolutely should be the expectation.  The one time he did that he had 3 NBA players one of which is a hall of famer, the overwhelming majority of his career has been wildly mediocre.

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listen, friend...I don't care what JB has accomplished...I was merely using him as an example...
Syracuse hasn't faced B1G competition...

I was merely pointing out he's not a good comparison because he was far more successful than Crean at the same point in their careers.

 

The Big East is still a good conference.

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listen, friend...I don't care what JB has accomplished...I was merely using him as an example...
Syracuse hasn't faced B1G competition...

Just curious what is the head to head won/loss record between Crean and Boeheim? I honestly don't know. Just googled it. Including this year 4-0 Boeheim. But it seems they would have played more than that. 9-1 versus Beilein and 4-1 versus Izzo.

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listen, friend...I don't care what JB has accomplished...I was merely using him as an example...
Syracuse hasn't faced B1G competition...

In the 80s, the top of the Big East was amazing. The bottom of the conference then left a lot to be desired, but it wasn't like a Gonzaga situation where they have 1-2 tough games from Jan 1 to the tournament.

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Tough to answer right now.

Does Noah come back? If yes, Crean lasts 2 - 4 more years, maybe more depending on recruiting. If Noah leaves, I'd guess next year is it for Crean. I voted 2 - 4 because I'm trying to be positive.

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I was merely pointing out he's not a good comparison because he was far more successful than Crean at the same point in their careers.

 

The Big East is still a good conference.

 

IMO, Pintino is the only coach off the top of my head that even comes close to a comparison due to situation.  Successful at previous stop.  Came to a Blue Blood decimated by sanctions.  Pitino didn't win a title with a better team his first go around.  That is what I am hoping for here.  Is either outcome possible?  Sure they are.  We can't predict the future.  The only thing Crean can do is continue to recruit the way he did that has brought him some of the players that he has.  Not all players will work out.  But, for his sake he has to have a consistent balance of shooter, big, ball handler, and athleticism.  Some systems allow for you to lack in certain areas.  Crean has to have those 4.  That is the way it was in Marquette.  That is the way it has been so far here.  Time will tell.  Just thought this would be a fun exercise to see where people truly stand.  

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Tough to answer right now.

Does Noah come back? If yes, Crean lasts 2 - 4 more years, maybe more depending on recruiting. If Noah leaves, I'd guess next year is it for Crean. I voted 2 - 4 because I'm trying to be positive.

 

I am like you to a degree.  So many unknown variables.  Unfortunately, that comes down to how he recruits and coaches.  If you don't have enough bigs to overcome two freshman leaving (without a senior scholarship big leaving) you didn't recruit bigs enough.  If you feel you did, yet your coaching doesn't allow for the ones you have to be successful, that also falls on you.  With or without Noah, there can't be excuses, because he ultimately disregarded recruiting a big like a Luke with basketball skill after Cody until Luke.  He 100% recruited upside trying to hit the lottery.  Sometimes the best bet is the safe one.  That is on him.  IMO

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I don't have the numbers but the way I look at crean is subtracting the terrible iu rebuilding years, while also subtracting the Dwayne wade years at marquette and looking at his record from there. It shows a slightly above average coach, but his recruiting so far has been been pretty good. I'm agreeing with the majority on the opinion that 2016 would be the make or break year. The main thing I've seen out of him is the only way to camouflage his coaching weaknesses is with a damn good recruiting class every year. It's on crean to make that the culture at iu from here on out. He's a good coach if his game plan is sound, but falls apart with adjustments and subs. Then again, maybe this team didn't have the right chemistry. Either way, this year is way too soon to pull the trigger. He is the coach that brought about the revival, and did it the clean way. Gotta be some points for that. Just my two cents


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Frankly...here is how I see it. 

 

For Crean to be able to really succeed, he needs top notch talent.  He need this kind of talent to compensate for his, mediocore at best, offensive system (and don't get me started on his zone offense.  The zone offense that I ran as a fresman in high school could run circles around CTC's zone offense...and my coach was awful).  After winning the Big 10 last year, and then not making the tournament this year, it is going to get harder and harder for him to recruit "top" talent.  

 

So, unless he starts to watch some old videos from the masters of the game and teach his kids how to move on offense and set some screens, he is doomed to fail.  Just my opinion...I hope that I am wrong.  And just to be clear, I do think that he is the right man for the job, as he loves our school and its basketball tradition, but if he doesn't make the necessary adjustment, someone else will. 

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IMO, Pintino is the only coach off the top of my head that even comes close to a comparison due to situation.  Successful at previous stop.  Came to a Blue Blood decimated by sanctions.  Pitino didn't win a title with a better team his first go around.  That is what I am hoping for here.  Is either outcome possible?  Sure they are.  We can't predict the future.  The only thing Crean can do is continue to recruit the way he did that has brought him some of the players that he has.  Not all players will work out.  But, for his sake he has to have a consistent balance of shooter, big, ball handler, and athleticism.  Some systems allow for you to lack in certain areas.  Crean has to have those 4.  That is the way it was in Marquette.  That is the way it has been so far here.  Time will tell.  Just thought this would be a fun exercise to see where people truly stand.  

I wouldn't say Crean was all that successful at Marquette.  He had one, only one, good year.  He followed it up with completely missing the tournament two years in a row and then couldn't get past the second round.  He was decent, and that's about it.

 

Pitino was at UK for 8 years and made the Elite 8 5 times, the Final Four 3 times, the championship game twice and won once.  He even led Providence to a Final Four, in only two years there.

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I'm seeing a very interesting trend in who is voting for which time period.....

 

This is honestly why I wanted to do it this way.  Some people want him fired now, but understand there are things beyond his coaching that are being taken into account.  That said, you can't overlook them forever.  This also shows the divide in perception, imo.  I am glad this hasn't turned into a pissing match, and hopefully is an eye opener to everyone on both sides.  Both sides are closer than they would like to admit, but it just comes down to verbiage.  

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I wouldn't say Crean was all that successful at Marquette.  He had one, only one, good year.  He followed it up with completely missing the tournament two years in a row and then couldn't get past the second round.  He was decent, and that's about it.

 

Pitino was at UK for 8 years and made the Elite 8 5 times, the Final Four 3 times, the championship game twice and won once.  He even led Providence to a Final Four, in only two years there.

 

I look at Marquette like Providence.  Crean did not get us obviously as far as we needed to go last year.  Next year will be huge for him.  That is the parallel I was drawing.  That and both teams came off of major sanctions when they both came in.  

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I look at Marquette like Providence.  Crean did not get us obviously as far as we needed to go last year.  Next year will be huge for him.  That is the parallel I was drawing.  That and both teams came off of major sanctions when they both came in.  

Still though, Pitino was only at Providence for 2 years and one of those was a Final Four run.  Crean was at Marquette 9 years, had one good year but was wildly mediocre overall.  It's the reason I voted 2-4 only because of his buyout, the only thing he has really proven is that he can have decent results and I really don't think we can look at his results and feel comfortable about him getting the job done here.

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Still though, Pitino was only at Providence for 2 years and one of those was a Final Four run.  Crean was at Marquette 9 years, had one good year but was wildly mediocre overall.  It's the reason I voted 2-4 only because of his buyout, the only thing he has really proven is that he can have decent results and I really don't think we can look at his results and feel comfortable about him getting the job done here.

I am with you.  If the buyout weren't so high, and he wasn't getting record donations he probably wouldn't last.  Thing is, he does have those.  He sells the program real well.  As fans, we aren't satisfied.  But truthfully, I remember a time in 2000s when UNC was winning and everyone at Duke was calling for Coach Ks head.  There is a reason fans aren't in control.  Not saying there is a parallel from this to that situation, but fans are too impulsive of everyday results.  

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