Less than Rapid Reaction IU vs. UI

[mdn82 25,747]

I apologize for being late to the party.  I had to work today.  As you guys have discussed for a couple of hours now, our turnovers were the story of the game.  To me there were a few items that caused the outcome of the game.  

 

1.  Turnovers.  We had like what?  100 for the game?  If we continue to have the boneheaded turnovers we have had over the last few games more than early on, we won't win more than 7 B1G games.  There is no way you can turn the ball over close to 20 times per game in this conference and win.  We had 23 in this one.  That is downright disgusting.  If we hit 3s at a normal clip for us, we get beat big.  A better team beats us by 20 if we do that.  

 

2.  We got to the foul line in a manner we will have to if we want to compete against most teams.  We got there 30 times.  We have to do that in conference, because quite honestly our offense isn't any good.  Crean has everybody moving in a hectic pace, which is fine.  At some point you have to run something that involves setting picks away from the ball.  We don't do that.  We set easy picks to defend at the top of the key.  Whomever has the ball is always going one on one.  It is frustrating watching the ball movement for the sole purpose of making a move one on one.  

 

3.  Law of averages.  For the first 30 minutes we hit plenty of shots we should not have and normally won't hit.  We were also hitting shots that just aren't good.  For a team that is void of good shooters, I would hope we would take an extra effort of getting guys in position for an easier shot or lower stress shot.  Not a contested 3 at the top of the key, over and over again.  Yes they fell early, but if I am any coach in the B1G, I am telling my players to keep letting us take that.  They will eventually not fall.  

 

Unfortunately, I don't have too many nice things to add to the game.  I was really happy Crean released Stan a little.  His stat line wasn't great, but things happen when he is on the court.  That aspect of his game reminds me so much of Vic as a Freshman.  I know Troy is the ultra athletic kid Crean likes to compare to Vic, but Stan is the kid who reminds me most of Vic.  Dude is just where the ball is every time he is on the court.  That is what I remember more than anything about Vic.  Noah was an absolute beast when he was on the court today.  Unfortunately he fell into a little foul trouble today.  Many teams will try and go right at him to do just that.  If you take Noah away, we will not win.  We will see in the future the importance of this game.  Until then, we get a team on Saturday who we can only hope is looking forward to their top 5 showdown with OSU.  Unfortunately, they have a coach named Tom Izzo who won't allow that.  

[JSHoosier 21,345]

There were people complaining about Jeremy in the game thread, and while he didn't stand out by any means he was also second on the team in assists and rebounds and tied for second on the team in blocks for the game.

[bronkonagurski 894]

We pretty much were in a situation to win in spite of ourselves today.  Yogi had a big game but man oh man he had two very UGLY turnovers down the stretch in regulation.  I mean just literally "what the hell were you thinking" types of passes.  Can't give it away 20+ times and expect to win too many conference games.

 

I would not single out Crean and blame him for the loss but I thought he was too conservative with Noah's minutes in the last 4 minutes of regulation plus the OT period.  I wish he would have called timeout on that final possession of regulation.  I did think the play he called to end the game was pretty good, it just did not turn out.

 

Honestly I would rather not ever see Jeff Howard on the court unless it is garbage time. 

 

The team gave a great effort and did better than I expected.  I honestly thought we would get beat by 10-15 today.  But man, we had a golden chance to steal a road game and came up short.  It is going to be a tough season.  I liked our effort but we have to play with more intelligence and better execution. 

[mdn82 25,747]

There were people complaining about Jeremy in the game thread, and while he didn't stand out by any means he was also second on the team in assists and rebounds and tied for second on the team in blocks for the game.

 

I would agree he did not stand out.  It is unfortunate that if Crean doesn't run plays for him, he gets lost easily in the shuffle.  This should have been a game he has an impact.  I can't really go nuts over his 3 assists, and 1 block.  His rebounds were a positive.  He was 0-6 from the floor and had 4 turnovers.  We had 5 players with a negative assists to turnover ratio.  They had 2.  Wasn't trying to single him out or anything, but he did have 0 points on 0-6 shooting, 3 assists to 4 turnovers, 6 boards and 1 block.  

[JSHoosier 21,345]

I would agree he did not stand out.  It is unfortunate that if Crean doesn't run plays for him, he gets lost easily in the shuffle.  This should have been a game he has an impact.  I can't really go nuts over his 3 assists, and 1 block.  His rebounds were a positive.  He was 0-6 from the floor and had 4 turnovers.  We had 5 players with a negative assists to turnover ratio.  They had 2.  Wasn't trying to single him out or anything, but he did have 0 points on 0-6 shooting, 3 assists to 4 turnovers, 6 boards and 1 block.  

Yogi had a negative assist to turnover ratio, 4 to 6.  Outside of hitting shots I wouldn't say he played all that well, and hitting shots can hide a lot.

 

I'm not going nuts over his 3 assists and one block, I was just pointing out it was second on the team.

[mdn82 25,747]

We pretty much were in a situation to win in spite of ourselves today.  Yogi had a big game but man oh man he had two very UGLY turnovers down the stretch in regulation.  I mean just literally "what the hell were you thinking" types of passes.  Can't give it away 20+ times and expect to win too many conference games.

 

I would not single out Crean and blame him for the loss but I thought he was too conservative with Noah's minutes in the last 4 minutes of regulation plus the OT period.  I wish he would have called timeout on that final possession of regulation.  I did think the play he called to end the game was pretty good, it just did not turn out.

 

Honestly I would rather not ever see Jeff Howard on the court unless it is garbage time. 

 

The team gave a great effort and did better than I expected.  I honestly thought we would get beat by 10-15 today.  But man, we had a golden chance to steal a road game and came up short.  It is going to be a tough season.  I liked our effort but we have to play with more intelligence and better execution. 

 

Couldn't agree more.  Loved the effort, but its rough to watch.  This year will be tough to swallow, but we must remember they are young.  I agree with DD during the game where he said this far into Crean's tenure, you can't go through another rebuild which is what he is selling everyone on.  IU fans aren't as patient as they were 3 years ago.  I definitely agree with DD there.  I don't think we make the tournament this year.  Next year we need to win, but I don't think that will be a problem at all.  

[mdn82 25,747]

Yogi had a negative assist to turnover ratio, 4 to 6.  Outside of hitting shots I wouldn't say he played all that well, and hitting shots can hide a lot.

 

I'm not going nuts over his 3 assists and one block, I was just pointing out it was second on the team.

I agree with both.  

[bronkonagurski 894]

Couldn't agree more.  Loved the effort, but its rough to watch.  This year will be tough to swallow, but we must remember they are young.  I agree with DD during the game where he said this far into Crean's tenure, you can't go through another rebuild which is what he is selling everyone on.  IU fans aren't as patient as they were 3 years ago.  I definitely agree with DD there.  I don't think we make the tournament this year.  Next year we need to win, but I don't think that will be a problem at all.  

 

Growing pains are to be expected but I'm not ready to write off any and all struggles on that premise.  We need to build winning habits.  Wasn't it Crean early in his tenure at IU that said never accept in defeat things that you would not accept in victory?  Maybe I am butchering that one, but I recall something along those lines. 

[bronkonagurski 894]

One thing I will say, I've never ever seen a sports message board that had an actual Thank You thread for a loss until tonight.  That is a bizarre twist from that other place. 

[JSHoosier 21,345]

Growing pains are to be expected but I'm not ready to write off any and all struggles on that premise.  We need to build winning habits.  Wasn't it Crean early in his tenure at IU that said never accept in defeat things that you would not accept in victory?  Maybe I am butchering that one, but I recall something along those lines. 

He said do not accept in victory what you would not accept in defeat.  I made it a part of my signature on a different board because some posters seemed happy to overlook problems if it resulted in a W.

 

One thing I will say, I've never ever seen a sports message board that had an actual Thank You thread for a loss until tonight.  That is a bizarre twist from that other place. 

I saw that.  Look at the poster though, he believes that to be a true fan you have to blindly support everything.

[hoosha61 386]

Call me crazy , but I was encouraged by what I saw. Obviously the TO were awful, that has to be corrected. I thought we were the more aggressive team most of the game and seemed more than up for the challenge. We can't count on Yogi to score 30 a game, He and NV need another scorer to show up on a consistent basis. Again, call me crazy but I really feel JH is the key to this whole thing. If we can get him to play to his potential, we can be a really good team. Go HOOSIERS


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

[mesaiufan 30]

One thing I will say, I've never ever seen a sports message board that had an actual Thank You thread for a loss until tonight.  That is a bizarre twist from that other place.

Agree. To me this place is a breath of fresh air.

[mdn82 25,747]

Agree. To me this place is a breath of fresh air.

 

Yeah, we have our opinions as every person does.  We are IU fans as you guys know.  At the same time, we try and allow you guys the space to say your peace either way.  Now, if its something that becomes a distraction of the mass or just plain annoying over time, we step in.  Luckily we haven't had to do that much.  People here are pretty cool about that.  

[JSHoosier 21,345]

Agree. To me this place is a breath of fresh air.

No kidding, I post here a lot more than I do there.

 

I made a post in that thread that will probably get lambasted by the same posters that want us to think everything is roses and rainbows.  All well.

[incrediboy 928]

One point I haven't seen made: Illinois, IMO, wasn't all that much better last year than this year. We certainly were, though. Yet we played them to the same point with this full-of-growing-pains group in Champaign that last year's team did.

 

My only serious criticism (and, yes, I saw all the turnovers, I saw Jeremy, I saw the whole shootin' match) was that Crean did not call time out and draw up a play in the closing seconds of regulation. It would have been sweet to have come out of there stealing a win on the road.

 

I'm also wondering when Will is going to start hitting his corner shots.

[JSHoosier 21,345]

One point I haven't seen made: Illinois, IMO, wasn't all that much better last year than this year. We certainly were, though. Yet we played them to the same point with this full-of-growing-pains group in Champaign that last year's team did.

 

My only serious criticism (and, yes, I saw all the turnovers, I saw Jeremy, I saw the whole shootin' match) was that Crean did not call time out and draw up a play in the closing seconds of regulation. It would have been sweet to have come out of there stealing a win on the road.

 

I'm also wondering when Will is going to start hitting his corner shots.

Crean said that play was a set play.  Oh, I really hope not.

[HoosierAloha 30,092]

One point I haven't seen made: Illinois, IMO, wasn't all that much better last year than this year. We certainly were, though. Yet we played them to the same point with this full-of-growing-pains group in Champaign that last year's team did.

 

My only serious criticism (and, yes, I saw all the turnovers, I saw Jeremy, I saw the whole shootin' match) was that Crean did not call time out and draw up a play in the closing seconds of regulation. It would have been sweet to have come out of there stealing a win on the road.

 

I'm also wondering when Will is going to start hitting his corner shots.

 

At the moment, I was wondering the same thing.  Young team, chance to win the game on the last shot, call the TO and get them setup.  However, we turned the ball over several times on inbound plays and that could have given them a chance to win ala last season at UI.  The play wasn't that bad and I would be happy with that shot most of the time to win the game.

[All_Hoosiers 873]

Illinois played great defense on that final possession of regulation. I wanna say the play wasn't designed for Evan Gordon to shoot the ball, but Illinois forced him to.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[mdn82 25,747]

One point I haven't seen made: Illinois, IMO, wasn't all that much better last year than this year. We certainly were, though. Yet we played them to the same point with this full-of-growing-pains group in Champaign that last year's team did.

 

My only serious criticism (and, yes, I saw all the turnovers, I saw Jeremy, I saw the whole shootin' match) was that Crean did not call time out and draw up a play in the closing seconds of regulation. It would have been sweet to have come out of there stealing a win on the road.

 

I'm also wondering when Will is going to start hitting his corner shots.

 

They are a completely different team and roster.  That is why I didn't comment on them not improving much in the article.  Groce had a lot of turnover on the roster.  

[JSHoosier 21,345]

Illinois played great defense on that final possession of regulation. I wanna say the play wasn't designed for Evan Gordon to shoot the ball, but Illinois forced him to.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

He had to, if the other four were replaced with statues there might have been more movement.  Easy to play defense when 4 of the 5 players aren't moving.