Turnovers

[Dalton26 16,909]

My biggest pet peeve is when players leave their feet then try to make a pass. Nothing irritates me more than those turnovers.


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[OliviaPope40 6,967]

Can we make this a New Year's resolution?

Edited January 1, 2014 by OliviaPope40

[Parakeet Jones 3,868]

I'd love to see some accountability, teach the players those things won't be accepted or tolerated.  Do it twice in a row?  Sit down and get comfortable, you're going to be there a while.

 

He's not holding players accountable for those stupid, boneheaded mistakes so he might as well be throwing the ball himself IMO.

 

I'm not saying I disagree with you and I'm not directing this at you, so don't take it that way, but if Crean did that we'd just read more moaning about his substitution patterns and how he doesnt' let anyone get in a rhythm in the game and probably that he has them afraid to make mistakes.  

 

I can live with a guy screwing up getting a little too aggressive going to the basket, but the cringe-worthy, lazy passes are what I believe he needs to crack down on.  I'm all for using the bench to work on that.  

[JSHoosier 21,345]

I'm not saying I disagree with you and I'm not directing this at you, so don't take it that way, but if Crean did that we'd just read more moaning about his substitution patterns and how he doesnt' let anyone get in a rhythm in the game and probably that he has them afraid to make mistakes.  

 

I can live with a guy screwing up getting a little too aggressive going to the basket, but the cringe-worthy, lazy passes are what I believe he needs to crack down on.  I'm all for using the bench to work on that.  

You wouldn't hear it from me.  When a player, in this case Yogi, makes not one but two straight remarkably stupid decisions they shouldn't be on the court.

 

His substitution patterns usually don't let a unit get into a rhythm anyway, I was beyond stunned he went 7 minutes without subbing at the start of the game.  With plays like those two passes though the player should be pulled, and it's not about being aggressive they were just insanely stupid passes.

[mamasa 15,634]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="26798" timestamp="1388600977"]I'd love to see some accountability, teach the players those things won't be accepted or tolerated. Do it twice in a row? Sit down and get comfortable, you're going to be there a while.

He's not holding players accountable for those stupid, boneheaded mistakes so he might as well be throwing the ball himself IMO.[/quote]

So then, everyone complains that our "best players/scorers/ball handlers/ etc" are on the bench? This is an issue to be rectified through practice, but if it's not a priority for the coach, it won't be for the team.


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[JSHoosier 21,345]

So then, everyone complains that our "best players/scorers/ball handlers/ etc" are on the bench? This is an issue to be rectified through practice, but if it's not a priority for the coach, it won't be for the team.


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I wouldn't do it in practice, I'd do it right there in the moment.  They'd know without mistake why they were benched.  The'd also learn, if you want to play don't make indescribably stupid decisions.

 

Turnovers aren't getting better, if anything they're getting worse.  At this point I'd say either he's not addressing it in practice, or his message isn't getting across and either one falls on Crean's shoulders.

[mdn82 25,747]

I am all for a fast paced team.  But, when it is causing more harm than good, you need it to slow it down to your personnel.  I understand the fast break, and the secondary break is our offense at this point.  Once you get in a situation you understand you aren't scoring with the break, slow the offense down.  What is our offense at this point?  Everyone complained the last few years because of our lack of movement.  Comparing this team to the 4 years prior and those 4 years might as well be RMK motion offense compared to this.  Crean has to work with these guys on offense.  I don't know if he was so used to having to teach defense to his last couple of teams, and not offense, that he does not spend as much time as others.  To me its like having a rookie QB.  You minimize the playbook and get them comfortable.  We need to do that at this point cause this isn't working.  IMO

[JSHoosier 21,345]

I am all for a fast paced team.  But, when it is causing more harm than good, you need it to slow it down to your personnel.  I understand the fast break, and the secondary break is our offense at this point.  Once you get in a situation you understand you aren't scoring with the break, slow the offense down.  What is our offense at this point?  Everyone complained the last few years because of our lack of movement.  Comparing this team to the 4 years prior and those 4 years might as well be RMK motion offense compared to this.  Crean has to work with these guys on offense.  I don't know if he was so used to having to teach defense to his last couple of teams, and not offense, that he does not spend as much time as others.  To me its like having a rookie QB.  You minimize the playbook and get them comfortable.  We need to do that at this point cause this isn't working.  IMO

Something has to be done.  Right now I watch the games like Jets fans watch Mark Sanchez, "please don't screw up too bad, please don't screw up too bad, please don't screw up too bad.  (butt fumble)  Son of a....."

[8bucks 6,860]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="26582" timestamp="1388543942"]It's part of it, but I won't place all of it on youth.

As I've said, turnover problems are consistent with Crean teams. Go back to his first year at Marquette and the best his teams have done is average 13 a game, with several years averaging more than that. It's a part of his offense, he wants them to just push push push and doesn't seem to care much about the consequences.[/quote]

This year things are terrible. No sugar coating that. You were spot on about the TO rate of Marquette while CTC was there but for fun I took the same time period for Duke. MU turnover average was 13.7 Duke was 13.95.

I did not pull up any other teams. MUs highest rate was 14.8 Dukes highest was 15.4. I am not sure it is fair to claim that CTCs teams have consistent TO problems unless you think Duke does too.

This year has been terrible and yet seems to be an aberration compared to the MU years. If it is not corrected it will be our Achilles heel all year. I also agree with others that this is not just a freshman issue. Yogi had a great game but those two TOs at the end of regulation were killers.

Noticed CTC responded to two tweets today which is not common for him. Probably getting some tweet heat from fans or just tired of things right now.


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[JSHoosier 21,345]

This year things are terrible. No sugar coating that. You were spot on about the TO rate of Marquette while CTC was there but for fun I took the same time period for Duke. MU turnover average was 13.7 Duke was 13.95.

I did not pull up any other teams. MUs highest rate was 14.8 Dukes highest was 15.4. I am not sure it is fair to claim that CTCs teams have consistent TO problems unless you think Duke does too.

This year has been terrible and yet seems to be an aberration compared to the MU years. If it is not corrected it will be our Achilles heel all year. I also agree with others that this is not just a freshman issue. Yogi had a great game but those two TOs at the end of regulation were killers.

Noticed CTC responded to two tweets today which is not common for him. Probably getting some tweet heat from fans or just tired of things right now.


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Since 2008-2009, which would be Tom Crean's first year here, Duke hasn't averaged more than 12 per game (according to ESPN), with 3 seasons of no more than 11.  In that time the best we've done is 13, and have had 3 seasons (counting this year) of 16 or more.

 

Yes, they were similar while Crean was at Marquette, you're right.  Duke has been better the last 6 years though.  Now, admittedly, Crean has a real mess on his hands and had a couple years of both Jeremiah Rivers and Verdell Jones, and nothing against Jones but those two could combine for 10 most nights.

[All_Hoosiers 873]

Each of Indiana's starters have turnover rates of 20+%, with Troy Williams and Jeremy Hollowell leading the way at 25.6% and 25.1% respectively.

 

Not good (understatement).

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

[quote name="mdn82" post="26576" timestamp="1388540883"]Crean has to sell the kids on this point. I think this was a coin flip game we had to take to make tournament. Whether or not that is true will be determined later. There is some good to be taken from it however. If you take the game film and show them every turnover, then show them the score, that is all that is needed. Clean it up, and that is the difference between winning and losing today. [/quote]

That or Noah doesn't get the land violation and yogi hits his free throw :)