Who Would Win?

[Demo]

6 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

For sure.

Personally, I really wish they would call this a travel.  The defender did a good job and Jalen should have been in deep trouble after the jump stop at 0:12 got him nowhere.  But, he gets another step to create some space at get a shot off.

Great shot, but c'mon.  

Yup, since they changed what constitutes a walk they’ve rendered even lesser players than a guy like Brunson completely unguardable. That’s great freaking defense by Vassell and Brunson just flat walked out of it.

[str8baller]

On 6/3/2026 at 8:24 AM, Stuhoo said:

My assertion is that the game has evolved dramtically from the early 1960's to today.

The league was only 15 years old during that championship series. If you watch enough of the 30 minute 1964 video, those teams have relatively terrible half court offense; spacing, shot selection, defensive close-outs - all of it. There are some superior athletes that would be outstanding still (Wilt, Sam Jones, Russell, Havlichek), but there's a whole bunch of under-skilled and not all that athletic guys too. But the video largely shows the shots that went in, and there a crap-ton of unguarded guys that take running hooks and one footed jump shots. Hands down and little pressure for perimeter defense, flinging the ball at the basket, etc. 

By the mid/late 1980's when Jordan started to dominate, the league was about 40 years old and the game film is pretty comparable to today's game. I expect that version of Jordan and his teammates would be very successful in any era. I also believe that those 1964 teams had players with dominant abilities, but that if you dropped those teams into the future against competent P5 currrent college teams, the 1964 teams would not fare especially well.

No, I’m agreeing with you in advances in the game. That’s why if you said the 64 team versus a current NBA team or maybe even Michigan (…maybe), the current team would win. But versus last years IU team??? No chance. It’d take Wilt 2min to realize he could just take 3 steps and plow everyone over and dunk on them…and that’s assuming you gave them no practice. There’s a good clip of Giannis getting the ball at half court, taking 3 big steps and dunking in a game. Wilt could do that every time against college players.  
 

I enjoy the topic though. Wilt is one of my favorite topics. I’ve done 180 on him over the years. Wish I could’ve seen him play like @AH1971!
 

 A related topic is probably “when did the game become modern,” so to speak. There’s no doubt guys like Bird could shoot it with the best of today’s guys but go back and look at his shooting splits and it’s pretty mind blowing. Guys just didn’t shoot from distance much 

[Pagoda]

I don’t know, I think Reed with his 21st century dribbling and footwork would put Wilt in a blender!

 

vbg

[Pagoda]

16 minutes ago, str8baller said:

A related topic is probably “when did the game become modern,” so to speak. There’s no doubt guys like Bird could shoot it with the best of today’s guys but go back and look at his shooting splits and it’s pretty mind blowing. Guys just didn’t shoot from distance much 

Yea, it's wild Larry only averaged 1.9 3pt attempts per game.  On top of that, of course he never played with a three point line until he turned pro... so growing up there was no three point line to practice from or consider as part of an offense.

But, if you watch him it's clear he was one of the all-time great shooters.

Era debates... very tricky. 

[RaceToTheTop]

21 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

Yea, it's wild Larry only averaged 1.9 3pt attempts per game.  On top of that, of course he never played with a three point line until he turned pro... so growing up there was no three point line to practice from or consider as part of an offense.

But, if you watch him it's clear he was one of the all-time great shooters.

Era debates... very tricky. 

Remember when the three point line was different in the ncaa and was determined by conference?

[Pagoda]

4 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Remember when the three point line was different in the ncaa and was determined by conference?

Oh, did not know that, before my time.  Pretty cool imo.  Interesting strategy challenges for coaches…

[LIHoosier]

40 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

Remember when the three point line was different in the ncaa and was determined by conference?

When the top of the key would be considered 'Steph Range' today

This was the ACC from about 1983-1986.

[Stuhoo]

2025 Hoosiers by 30 or more. Cousy would have been yanked and not seen the court again based on the first ten minutes of this video. I dare you to watch the video and tell me different:

 

[str8baller]

22 hours ago, Pagoda said:

Yea, it's wild Larry only averaged 1.9 3pt attempts per game.  On top of that, of course he never played with a three point line until he turned pro... so growing up there was no three point line to practice from or consider as part of an offense.

But, if you watch him it's clear he was one of the all-time great shooters.

Era debates... very tricky. 

One of my favorite stats is an IU one regarding the 3pt line. In like 84 or 85 they did the experimental 3pt line in non-conf play. It was Whitman and maybe Kitchell(??) who both went close to 50% without ever having it before.  
 

There are huge mental barriers to sports that once broken sometimes open the floodgates. Bannister and the 4min mile is a good one. I think once he finally did it some else did like a month later, then a bunch of people did. 

[Stuhoo]

15 minutes ago, str8baller said:

One of my favorite stats is an IU one regarding the 3pt line. In like 84 or 85 they did the experimental 3pt line in non-conf play. It was Whitman and maybe Kitchell(??) who both went close to 50% without ever having it before.  
 

There are huge mental barriers to sports that once broken sometimes open the floodgates. Bannister and the 4min mile is a good one. I think once he finally did it some else did like a month later, then a bunch of people did. 

Why were they able to shoot 50% from three? This might have something to do with it:

During the 1982-83 college basketball season, the Big Ten experimented with a three-point line. The conference set the arc at 17 feet, 9 inches from the center of the basket.

[BA47591]

Players from other era's. The special ones from the 60's and 70's. The guys with the measurables for their position, couldn't time travel to today and play the same game. However, I can comfortably rattle of a petty long list of players, that if they were born in this era and raised to develop additional skills, would still be stars. Throw in the nutrition and training. 

Wilt Chamberlain, pre-injury Arvydes Sabonis, Kareem, immediately come to mind. 

Bill Russell would be Rodman without the headaches. 

Bob Pettit would be perfect for today's game. 

[str8baller]

On 6/5/2026 at 1:16 PM, Stuhoo said:

Why were they able to shoot 50% from three? This might have something to do with it:

During the 1982-83 college basketball season, the Big Ten experimented with a three-point line. The conference set the arc at 17 feet, 9 inches from the center of the basket.

If anyone on a recent team shot 50% from 18ft, IU nation would do back flips.  
 

And Kitchel shot 65%.

[Stuhoo]

51 minutes ago, str8baller said:

If anyone on a recent team shot 50% from 18ft, IU nation would do back flips.  
 

And Kitchel shot 65%.

Kitchel and Whitman were better shooters than anyone on the current IU not named Lamar.

But them shooting from an under 18 feet three point line explains the high number 

[RaceToTheTop]

On 6/8/2026 at 7:58 PM, Stuhoo said:

Kitchel and Whitman were better shooters than anyone on the current IU not named Lamar.

But them shooting from an under 18 feet three point line explains the high number 

And Kitchel shot 65% on a sample of 32 shots, so only shooting them from the widest open of shots.  As a team, IU took 50 three point shots in 30 games.

[str8baller]

4 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

so only shooting them from the widest open of shots.

What a concept. I bet that coach was pretty good

[Stuhoo]

41 minutes ago, str8baller said:

What a concept. I bet that coach was pretty good

That small sample size likely spurred RMK to be ahead of the curve when the 3pt line became a full time thing about five years later. Knight got some shooters and it was bombs away for Alford and Jay Edwards.

[RaceToTheTop]

1 hour ago, str8baller said:

What a concept. I bet that coach was pretty good

If someone shoots 65% from three but only takes 32 threes all year, that's not a good concept.  That's an under utilization of the three point line.  At that point the college game had not learned how to maximize the three point line.

Four years later Alford would make 53% of his threes and took 202 of them (and from a farther distant three point line).  I assume you are not going to seriously argue that Ted Kitchel's three point game in his last season impacted the team as much as Alford's did.

[str8baller]

17 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

That small sample size likely spurred RMK to be ahead of the curve when the 3pt line became a full time thing about five years later. Knight got some shooters and it was bombs away for Alford and Jay Edwards.

Alford launched them. But iirc that team was only average for its time in total 3’s shot.

16 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

If someone shoots 65% from three but only takes 32 threes all year, that's not a good concept.  That's an under utilization of the three point line.  At that point the college game had not learned how to maximize the three point line.

Four years later Alford would make 53% of his threes and took 202 of them (and from a farther distant three point line).  I assume you are not going to seriously argue that Ted Kitchel's three point game in his last season impacted the team as much as Alford's did.

I know, I know…with all the training, nutrition, and video technology you think Archie Miller is a better coach than Bob Knight. Times change, eh?

[RaceToTheTop]

4 hours ago, str8baller said:

I know, I know…with all the training, nutrition, and video technology you think Archie Miller is a better coach than Bob Knight. Times change, eh?

I see you like making strawman statements.

[str8baller]

2 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

I see you like making strawman statements.

Like your claim Bobby Knight underutilized the 3 point line??? 
 

Seems like you think modern nutrition has made Reed Bailey Wilts equal and modern analytics has made today’s coaches Bobbys equal. There’s a name for that particular history fallacy but it isnt “strawman.”