Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[AH1971 1,447]

4 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

It's a better roster, it should be for all the millions spent, but a lot is based on projected improvement in shooting assisted by a coaching staff with a history of not being able to improve  shooting.  What could go wrong?

Mgbako shot 22% (10/44) November/December and 37% (40/109) Jan-March. But yeah....narratives.

[Home Jersey 6,709]

9 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Mgbako shot 22% (10/44) November/December and 37% (40/109) Jan-March. But yeah....narratives.

I know you are not a paid burner, but you truly deserve to get a paycheck for putting in all this work. 

Michael Woodson thanks you for your free labor. +500 true fan points for you, good sir. 

[Hoosierfan2017 20,947]

10 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Mgbako shot 22% (10/44) November/December and 37% (40/109) Jan-March. But yeah....narratives.

IU has gone 14th, 14th, and 13th in the conference in 3 point makes during Woodson’s tenure. It’s really not the hill to die on when defending him. 

[AKHoosier 6,748]

10 hours ago, IU Prof said:

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think that this roster is *that* talented. And I don't think the talent that has been assembled is particularly well-tailored to play with one another. Undoubtedly the roster has more dynamic guards than last year, but Rice and Carlyle largely feature overlapping skillsets, so they aren't really complementary pieces in my mind. And then it appears that Mgbako is going to be penciled in at the 3, even though it seems clear he's better at the 4, in order to once again allow Reneau to play out of position at the 4.

Sure, Rice and Carlyle will be able to take more guys off the dribble than the backcourt last year. But whenever Reneau and Ballo are on the court together, the guards are going to run into a lot of congestion once they get to the paint. Aside from Goode, we haven't while added any lockdown shooters for the new guards to dish to when they do break the defense down. I know people are hopeful Rice and Carlyle's 3 pt. shooting % will improve significantly from last year, that is hardly a guarantee.

And we haven't even gotten to Woodson's shortcomings coaching on the defensive end.

So while I'd be happy to be wrong, I just don't see the high ceiling many of you do for this roster, especially with this coaching staff. I think that a top 30-40 finish and a 12-8 B1G record are much more likely than a B1G Championship or Final Four run. And while that would certainly be an improvement over last year, I don't think that would be anyone's idea of a successful season. Again, hope I'm wrong, though!

Agreed. I drank the koolaid last year but I'm not getting burned again.

I recently listened to a Gary Parrish podcast from a few months ago and man they were not quite as bullish on Indiana.

We've done nothing to improve our 3 pt shooting from the guard spots. That will hurt us when teams just sag off our guards and clog the lane.

[Stuhoo 79,802]

24 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

I think the tint on your Crimson colored glasses may be a bit thick. Carlyle and Mgbako are borderline top 50 NBA draft prospects, maybe top 35-40 if you take out foreign players and no one else cracks top 100. It's a better roster, it should be for all the millions spent, but a lot is based on a  projected large improvement in shooting assisted by a coaching staff with a history of not being able to improve  shooting.  What could go wrong?

At the risk of redundantly repeating my reason for relative optimism?

Woody's roster construction for last year's 19-14 team was a horror show. ("Again, son") that's 100% on him. Last year we had a guard rotation of:

• Gallo (a positive),
• X (injured, volatile personality, and bad offensively),
• Cupps (completely not ready for a featured role),
• Gunn (aye caramba), and
• Leal (good at a certain role but forced into far too big a role).

For this year? While we need to have better perimeter shooting, the 'talent level' increase for the three guard rotation is strikingly improved. That doesn't mean the team will be dominant, but can you even imagine if Galloway had also missed substantial time last year? This year we're starting with him dinged up and we still project world's better because of the Rice and Carlyle additions, and hopefully because Cupps is more ready to fill a role.

While it would be nice, we don't need a guard rotation of Yogi Ferrell and Steve Alford level shooters. But we sure as hell need a guard rotation that isn't getting severely outplayed by every team in the B1G and more than a few cupcakes, like they were last year. And I cannot imagine that Rice, Galloway, and Carlyle are a below average guard rotation in the B1G.

[AH1971 1,447]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

IU has gone 14th, 14th, and 13th in the conference in 3 point makes during Woodson’s tenure. It’s really not the hill to die on when defending him. 

What does that have to do with the Mgbako who was named specifically who unequivocally improved his shooting? Over the course of his freshman season nonetheless. 

[AH1971 1,447]

1 minute ago, AKHoosier said:

We've done nothing to improve our 3 pt shooting from the guard spots. That will hurt us when teams just sag off our guards and clog the lane.

Rice and Carlyle will be All-American's if teams sag off them like they did Galloway, Cupps, XJ last year. 

[iu eyedoc 1,861]

11 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Mgbako shot 22% (10/44) November/December and 37% (40/109) Jan-March. But yeah....narratives.

 IU was 271st in 3 pt %, below 200 2 of the last three seasons.

But yeah that one guy, if you ignore the first half of the season...narratives indeed.

[Hoosierfan2017 20,947]

5 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

What does that have to do with the Mgbako who was named specifically who unequivocally improved his shooting? Over the course of his freshman season nonetheless. 

You’re the one who named Mgbako specifically as definitive proof that the claim this staff can’t develop shooting is a “narrative.” And even he shot 32.7% from 3 last year. The proof is in the pudding that IU has been the worst 3pt shooting team in the Big 10 over Woodson’s tenure. Just look at the numbers. But, as the big dog said himself, it’s not his job to get players shots. 

[AH1971 1,447]

1 minute ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

You’re the one who named Mgbako specifically as definitive proof that the claim this staff can’t develop shooting is a “narrative.” And even he shot 32.7% from 3 last year. The proof is in the pudding that IU has been the worst 3pt shooting team in the Big 10 over Woodson’s tenure. Just look at the numbers. But, as the big dog said himself, it’s not his job to get players shots. 

No I didn't.

25 minutes ago, iu eyedoc said:

I think the tint on your Crimson colored glasses may be a bit thick. Carlyle and Mgbako are borderline top 50 NBA draft prospects, maybe top 35-40 if you take out foreign players and no one else cracks top 100. It's a better roster, it should be for all the millions spent, but a lot is based on a  projected large improvement in shooting assisted by a coaching staff with a history of not being able to improve  shooting.  What could go wrong?

The direct player named improved his shooting tenfold in a matter of months. 

[iu eyedoc 1,861]

7 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

At the risk of redundantly repeating my reason for relative optimism?

Woody's roster construction for last year's 19-14 team was a horror show. ("Again, son") that's 100% on him. Last year we had a guard rotation of:

• Gallo (a positive),
• X (injured, volatile personality, and bad offensively),
• Cupps (completely not ready for a featured role),
• Gunn (aye caramba), and
• Leal (good at a certain role but forced into far too big a role).

For this year? While we need to have better perimeter shooting, the 'talent level' increase for the three guard rotation is strikingly improved. That doesn't mean the team will be dominant, but can you even imagine if Galloway had also missed substantial time last year? This year we're starting with him dinged up and we still project world's better because of the Rice and Carlyle additions, and hopefully because Cupps is more ready to fill a role.

While it would be nice, we don't need a guard rotation of Yogi Ferrell and Steve Alford level shooters. But we sure as hell need a guard rotation that isn't getting severely outplayed by every team in the B1G, and more than a few cupcakes like they were last year. And I cannot imagine that Rice, Galloway, and Carlyle are a below average guard rotation in the B1G.

Good God, I would hope one of the richest NIL pools in NCAA MBB, at a historic program, with great facilities could buy you an above average roster. MW sure as hell isn't going to put in the work to recruit that talent. That said, what about this coach  staff instills confidence that they can, you know...coach? Do you not expect another season of hockey line changes, MW pissing and moaning to refs every time out, and eventual blank stares of indifference.

[iu eyedoc 1,861]

8 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

No I didn't.

The direct player named improved his shooting tenfold in a matter of months. 

Not even 2 fold, but as you said, narratives.

[Hoosierfan2017 20,947]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

No I didn't.

The direct player named improved his shooting tenfold in a matter of months. 

You cut that portion of the post out when you responded to it. 

And your numbers are wrong. Mgbako shot 36-104 from 3 in January-March, which is 34.6%. That’s nothing to write home about. He shot 14-49 from 3 in November-December, which is 28.6%  so, a 6% increase, far from an increase of “tenfold in a matter of months,” and the increased percentage still wasn’t good. 

[AH1971 1,447]

7 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

You cut that portion of the post out when you responded to it. 

And your numbers are wrong. Mgbako shot 36-104 from 3 in January-March, which is 34.6%. That’s nothing to write home about. He shot 14-49 from 3 in November-December, which is 28.6%  so, a 6% increase, far from an increase of “tenfold in a matter of months,” and the increased percentage still wasn’t good. 

38% on volume for a true freshman in a 20 game conference slate isn't good? You're an idiot!

[AKHoosier 6,748]

21 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Rice and Carlyle will be All-American's if teams sag off them like they did Galloway, Cupps, XJ last year. 

Yeah we'll just have to strongly disagree there.

Rice will be a nice player, but he shot <30% from 3 last year. Carlyle not much better.

[AH1971 1,447]

3 minutes ago, AKHoosier said:

Yeah we'll just have to strongly disagree there.

Rice will be a nice player, but he shot <30% from 3 last year. Carlyle not much better.

This has been discussed 100 times over. Rice was shooting 36% until an 0-22 slump the last 6 games of the season plummeted his average...call it a "freshman wall". Carlyle shot over 40% from 3 playing off the ball, a role he will primarily play here at Indiana. But glad you know how to read a box score. 

[Hoosierfan2017 20,947]

3 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

38% on volume for a true freshman in a 20 game conference slate isn't good? You're an idiot!

Now you’re shifting the goalposts because the numbers you initially quoted were wrong. And lol at calling me an idiot for a statement I never made because you’re upset I corrected your misinformation. 

This 38% doesn’t include the 1-10 he shot from 3 in the conference tournament. Picking and choosing which games you want to count and not count is the definition of pushing a narrative.

This whole discussion is dumb. Defend Woodson until the cows come home if you want, but there’s no defending his teams’ 3pt shooting. 

[Hoosierfan2017 20,947]

5 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

This has been discussed 100 times over. Rice was shooting 36% until an 0-22 slump the last 6 games of the season plummeted his average...call it a "freshman wall". Carlyle shot over 40% from 3 playing off the ball, a role he will primarily play here at Indiana. But glad you know how to read a box score. 

“He’s a good shooter if you take out his 0-22 stretch during the most important part of the season” is a helluva take.

[AH1971 1,447]

3 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

“He’s a good shooter if you take out his 0-22 stretch during the most important part of the season” is a helluva take.

I consider a 30 game sample size a much more appropriate measure than a 5 game sample set that included a massive slump to end the year for a first year player coming off radiation therapy. But you do you. Keeping receipts and taking names. March will be fun, too bad you won't be watching...but I'll be sure to be here to give you the recap. 

[iu eyedoc 1,861]

5 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

This has been discussed 100 times over. Rice was shooting 36% until an 0-22 slump the last 6 games of the season plummeted his average...call it a "freshman wall". Carlyle shot over 40% from 3 playing off the ball, a role he will primarily play here at Indiana. But glad you know how to read a box score. 

So, if we forget MM first half of last season, Rice's second half of last season, and Carlyle on ball shooting % and this staffs history of bad 3 pt shooting...

 

LOL, for one that claims others are writing a narrative, you sure are going Tom Clancy on these stats.