Jump to content

Thanks for visiting BtownBanners.com!  We noticed you have AdBlock enabled.  While ads can be annoying, we utilize them to provide these forums free of charge to you!  Please consider removing your AdBlock for BtownBanners or consider signing up to donate and help BtownBanners stay alive!  Thank you!

IU_FanClub

Serious Question

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, MikeRoberts said:

I would like this post except for the part about bailing on woody. I could be wrong but I don’t see anyone or at least not many of any bailing on him. Just posting concerns that some easy to fix things are being easily fixed. As posted above, there is a small margin between winning hand losing and this easy fixes are what could be the difference between being 12-4 and 15-1 and that will continue to affect our record like that until it’s fixed

I read two forums and have seen posts about knowing he was a mistake, shouldn’t have hired him etc.  That’s where I was coming from.

 I agree with you that posting concerns are not the equivalent of bailing on him. I haven’t been happy, as an example, with his first half “hockey line” substitutions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

I hope JHS can be a quality D1 PG.  

What a world of difference it is when you have a PG like Yogi that you trust with the ball at the end of the game, usually makes good decisions and can take the ball to the rim and/or shoot from the perimeter. I think a lot of us, including me, thought/hoped that Woody would somehow transform X or Rob into much better PG’s. The reality, however, is that both of them had a ton of prior D1 experience and they are pretty much playing like their previous three years indicated they would.  The lack of a dependable PG, not to mention the need for a well rounded 2 that is a threat, is a major impediment of our progress.

Based on this, would it make sense to run the offense through Galloway? I say definitively yes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, MikeRoberts said:

Based on this, would it make sense to run the offense through Galloway? I say definitively yes

We all know the energy, play hard, glue-guy etc aspects Galloway brings to the floor.

If (IF) he can show that he can consistently hit threes, like the 2-3 he hit at Iowa, his game will go to a whole new level.  Prior to the Iowa game I’m sure he was scouted as a “let him shoot but not drive” guy.  One game is not a sample size but if he can hit 35%+ from the three….look out. 
 

EDIT: Not just 3’s. If Galloway develops into a threat from 15’ out his game goes to a new level. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

I’m as disappointed as anyone when we blow opportunities to win. Let’s face it, we could easily be undefeated or a one loss team. That being said Woody has reinvigorated my enthusiasm to watch games.  Anyone miss losing to Indiana State, Fort Wayne and getting smoked by other teams? I remember being “lectured” as someone with  “instant gratification” expectations because I posted complaints about Archies results in his FOURTH SEASON. He was still being excused in his fourth year, people sincerely posted it takes 3 years to learn his defense and now some are ready to bail on Woody after 1/2 season? I’m not sure how Woody will work out but he definitely deserves more time. There have been some incremental improvements but playing up to our capabilities for 40 minutes, in every game, is certainly not there yet. We have a reasonable shot to go 3-1 in the next 4 games (we could also go 1-3…we will see). If we are able to go 3-1 I think we will be on the path to making the tourney which would be a good 1st year accomplishment.

 

I think I've seen one post stating they have given up on Woody. There is a growing group that is questioning some of the issues that have plagued this team from early in the season. We are still in position to make the tourney. That's great and improvement. Woody should be praised for that. We have turnover issues, we have FT shooting issues, we have effort and intelligence issues, we have rebounding issues, we have individual defense issues, we have substitution issues, we have breaking pressure issues, etc. We've had these issues since the beginning of the season and they haven't been corrected. Fixing these issues would go a long way in winning those close road games, making the tourney, AND providing confidence this staff can get the team playing good basketball. The wins will come when those issues are improved upon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

I hope JHS can be a quality D1 PG.  

What a world of difference it is when you have a PG like Yogi that you trust with the ball at the end of the game, usually makes good decisions and can take the ball to the rim and/or shoot from the perimeter. I think a lot of us, including me, thought/hoped that Woody would somehow transform X or Rob into much better PG’s. The reality, however, is that both of them had a ton of prior D1 experience and they are pretty much playing like their previous three years indicated they would.  The lack of a dependable PG, not to mention the need for a well rounded 2 that is a threat, is a major impediment of our progress.

I really hope JHS comes in and dominates as a freshman, makes an All-Big 1.o team. That would be fantastic. I also hope Woody goes out and snags a solid upperclassman PG in the transfer portal in case JHS needs time to develop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having the tournament cancelled in 2020 set this program back more then people realize in my opinion.  That was an opportunity for some of these kids to experience a good moment during some down times.   At the time nothing too exciting about a 7-10 seed normally but in my opinion would of been a huge confidence booster for some of these returning players.   Instead the year after some of these players lost 12 of 13 they get the tournament taken away and they next year they follow that up with 12-15.   Terrible luck and yes they would of easily made it that year not even a question.   That canceled season effected this fan base more then people realize as well.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I really hope JHS comes in and dominates as a freshman, makes an All-Big 1.o team. That would be fantastic. I also hope Woody goes out and snags a solid upperclassman PG in the transfer portal in case JHS needs time to develop.

I hope so too. You never know how 5* JHS will turn out but prior to KL we landed eight 5 stars since 2000 and all eight started right away and contributed heavily their freshman years. KL, who was overrated through no fault of his own, has been an anomaly. Hopefully JHS plays like a “typical” five star.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

I hope so too. You never know how 5* JHS will turn out but prior to KL we landed eight 5 stars since 2000 and all eight started right away and contributed heavily their freshman years. KL, who was overrated through no fault of his own, has been an anomaly. Hopefully JHS plays like a “typical” five star.

It's semantics but I'm not sure I would label Yogis freshman season as contributing heavily. He played his role on that team but didn't have any one area where he totally dominated and I don't recall his numbers being anything above average.

Noah Vonleh put up some impressive numbers but someone had to on a losing team.

JBJ came in and put up numbers but had obvious weaknesses throughout his career.

Thomas Bryant (I believe he was a 5*) was solid as a frosh.

My overall point is that it appears we're hoping that JHS comes in and needing him to be a junior or senior Yogi level impact player immediately to improve upon this season.. We will most likely be losing quite a bit from the current team that is struggling to improve on obvious issues. We have a LONG way to go as a program to be a consistent tourney team which appears to be the minimum expectations of most on this board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

It's semantics but I'm not sure I would label Yogis freshman season as contributing heavily. He played his role on that team but didn't have any one area where he totally dominated and I don't recall his numbers being anything above average.

Yogi started every game as a freshman. Not claiming he was all-world dominant but he heavily contributed. A few sentences from his wiki page….

Ferrell finished the season averaging 7.6 points, 4.1 assists, and 2.8 rebounds in 28.1 minutes per game.[18] He also shot 40.3% from the field and 79.8% from the free throw line. His 132 single-season assists by a freshman ranked among the top two in the Indiana record book.[19] He was honored with a spot on the Big Ten's All-Freshman Team by the coaches and All-Big Ten Honorable Mention honors from the media.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

It's semantics but I'm not sure I would label Yogis freshman season as contributing heavily. He played his role on that team but didn't have any one area where he totally dominated and I don't recall his numbers being anything above average.

Noah Vonleh put up some impressive numbers but someone had to on a losing team.

JBJ came in and put up numbers but had obvious weaknesses throughout his career.

Thomas Bryant (I believe he was a 5*) was solid as a frosh.

My overall point is that it appears we're hoping that JHS comes in and needing him to be a junior or senior Yogi level impact player immediately to improve upon this season.. We will most likely be losing quite a bit from the current team that is struggling to improve on obvious issues. We have a LONG way to go as a program to be a consistent tourney team which appears to be the minimum expectations of most on this board.

Not expecting JHS to be equivalent to a senior Yogi but yes, we have a long way to go. If TJD and Race both leave (TJD is gone)…..let’s just say there are holes to fill underneath.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DChoosier said:

Yogi started every game as a freshman and a few sentences from his wiki page….

Ferrell finished the season averaging 7.6 points, 4.1 assists, and 2.8 rebounds in 28.1 minutes per game.[18] He also shot 40.3% from the field and 79.8% from the free throw line. His 132 single-season assists by a freshman ranked among the top two in the Indiana record book.[19] He was honored with a spot on the Big Ten's All-Freshman Team by the coaches and All-Big Ten Honorable Mention honors from the media.

I stand corrected, he did dominate with his passing. He also played his role on that team distributing the ball. Will JHS have a Zeller, Watford, Oladipo, Hulls, and Sheehey to finish those plays? Yogi was setup for success with pieces around him. Will JHS be setup for success like that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

I stand corrected, he did dominate with his passing. He also played his role on that team distributing the ball. Will JHS have a Zeller, Watford, Oladipo, Hulls, and Sheehey to finish those plays? Yogi was setup for success with pieces around him. Will JHS be setup for success like that?

No, JHS will not be set up like Yogi was and it is highly, highly unlikely he will be as good as a junior Yogi. I agree with your premise that Yogi’s early success was aided by being surrounded by a great group of players.  Unfortunately it’s pretty easy, using that criteria,  to say that no positions are readily set up for success next year.  Will an incoming 4 be set up as well as Watford was since we don’t have a Zeller type 5 that pulls the defense away from the 4? Will an incoming 2 get open if we don’t have threats underneath? Etc, Etc.

I’m just looking/hoping for a guy that can play more controlled than X and can impact the game offensively more than Rob. It would be great to feel good about a specific player having the ball in his hands at crunch time. Hopefully JHS will be that guy but who knows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, DChoosier said:

No, JHS will not be set up like Yogi was and it is highly, highly unlikely he will be as good as a junior Yogi. I agree with your premise that Yogi’s early success was aided by being surrounded by a great group of players.  Unfortunately it’s pretty easy, using that criteria,  to say that no positions are readily set up for success next year.  Will an incoming 4 be set up as well as Watford was since we don’t have a Zeller type 5 that pulls the defense away from the 4? Will an incoming 2 get open if we don’t have threats underneath? Etc, Etc.

I’m just looking/hoping for a guy that can play more controlled than X and can impact the game offensively more than Rob. It would be great to feel good about a specific player having the ball in his hands at crunch time. Hopefully JHS will be that guy but who knows.

Completely agreed, we have a long way to go before we continue to have these holes in our roster year in and year out. Good programs stack good recruiting classes that fill their needs. I'd like to get a little insurance with a solid PG transfer. We also need some complete wings, a stretch 4, and a solid post presence next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Completely agreed, we have a long way to go before we continue to have these holes in our roster year in and year out. Good programs stack good recruiting classes that fill their needs. I'd like to get a little insurance with a solid PG transfer. We also need some complete wings, a stretch 4, and a solid post presence next year.

I think it at least hope that in 3 years we will have the roster set to where we stack those recruiting classes. We could have a junior in Bates and Duncomb and sophomores in JHS and Banks with freshman's Cupp and Newton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

I think it at least hope that in 3 years we will have the roster set to where we stack those recruiting classes. We could have a junior in Bates and Duncomb and sophomores in JHS and Banks with freshman's Cupp and Newton

Hopefully we have someone on staff developing those players. Juniors Bates and Duncomb and sophomores Banks and JHS aren't exactly what I was picturing when stacking recruiting classes. Those could be pieces but it'll take more than that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, HoosierAloha said:

Hopefully we have someone on staff developing those players. Juniors Bates and Duncomb and sophomores Banks and JHS aren't exactly what I was picturing when stacking recruiting classes. Those could be pieces but it'll take more than that.

I would think we will have more recruits than that, plus transfers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

I have more faith in this staff than the previous one and that isn’t based on where the last one ended, but started.

that said, they need to get some things ironed out ASAP. Not next year or the following year. We can’t afford to piss away this season and not make the tourney when we have the team that could and should make it.

when I read that we were right there with a chance to win in those 4 road loses I can’t help but wonder what you think that means? We had zero chance of winning that game at Iowa once they took the lead in the second half it was over. It’s not like we were even in the game with a minute or two left. Same with Wisconsin and same with PSU. They fold at the first sign of pressure or adversity and aren’t in it to even have a chance at the end.

We’re at that point where the season improves or goes down the toilet as our schedule only gets harder. These easy to fix issues that haven’t been fixed easily need to be fixed or we will be watching us miss out yet again 

I mean it was less 5 minutes to play and we were right there to have that chance to swing momentum back but instead made a few more bad plays over the next couple minutes it totally got away from us by then.  I think any time you are on the road and you are within 2 possessions, you have that chance to swing momentum and take back control of the game! 
 

I still think we were better than those 4 teams but didn’t make the plays

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I mean it was less 5 minutes to play and we were right there to have that chance to swing momentum back but instead made a few more bad plays over the next couple minutes it totally got away from us by then.  I think any time you are on the road and you are within 2 possessions, you have that chance to swing momentum and take back control of the game! 
 
I still think we were better than those 4 teams but didn’t make the plays

It always feels like we’re more talented than Wiscy. However, they have had a system and culture. They recruit to that system and culture. They almost always get the most out of their talent.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/14/2022 at 3:21 PM, WayneFleekHoosier said:


“Tons of obvious reasons to see we are getting better”??

Are we watching the same team? We’ve had good moments and good performances. But many of the same problems continue to creep up. We haven’t won a game on the road. This includes a historically bad half allowing Wisconsin their best comeback win of all time. Losing to a not too good Penn State team in an empty gym. A bad Syracuse team that will miss the tourney. A decent Iowa team that was suppose to be junk. Ohio State was a very nice win. But it’s a home win. They will return serve if we play there.


Sent from my iPad using BtownBanners mobile app

I think we're watching the same team.... But seems like we look at different things during the games or just see the same things differently.

So, we're clearly better defensively, since we're one of the best defensive teams in D1 as of right now, right? And with mostly the same guys -- to me, that says a lot about what Woodson and staff have already done to improve the team.

But take a minute to compare offensive stats to date

#1 is 2020-21, #2 is this year's team

Points: #1 69.7 (218th)  / #2 74.9 (116th)

2PT% #1 48.5 (239th) / #2 54.6 (60th)

3PT% #1 32.4 (243rd) / #2 34.8 (134th)

FT% #1 66.5 (299th) / #2 68.1 (262nd)

Assists #1 13.9 (119th) / #2 15.8 (54th)

Offensive boards #1 9 (227th) / #2 9.6 (211)

So, we're better in basically every offensive category as a team - so far, on stats. We're only 6 games into conference play so we'll have to see how things continue, but so far we're clearly improved -- so yeah, to me those are pretty obvious reasons to see we're getting better.

I definitely see some of the same issues -- the TO's remain a real issue (currently averaging 14.4). But then until @Iowa we were showing real improvement -- last 3 games: 13, 9, 6. The continuing losses on the road are really frustrating. What I see is a team that doesn't yet have the confidence on the road - I don't see a bad team, and we had the chance to win all of those road game, this last one being by far the worst fall off in the second half -- but Iowa is one of the best offensive teams in the country and playing at home.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/indiana/2021.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/indiana/2022.html

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I think we're watching the same team.... But seems like we look at different things during the games or just see the same things differently.

So, we're clearly better defensively, since we're one of the best defensive teams in D1 as of right now, right? And with mostly the same guys -- to me, that says a lot about what Woodson and staff have already done to improve the team.

But take a minute to compare offensive stats to date

#1 is 2020-21, #2 is this year's team

Points: #1 69.7 (218th)  / #2 74.9 (116th)

2PT% #1 48.5 (239th) / #2 54.6 (60th)

3PT% #1 32.4 (243rd) / #2 34.8 (134th)

FT% #1 66.5 (299th) / #2 68.1 (262nd)

Assists #1 13.9 (119th) / #2 15.8 (54th)

Offensive boards #1 9 (227th) / #2 9.6 (211)

So, we're better in basically every offensive category as a team - so far, on stats. We're only 6 games into conference play so we'll have to see how things continue, but so far we're clearly improved -- so yeah, to me those are pretty obvious reasons to see we're getting better.

I definitely see some of the same issues -- the TO's remain a real issue (currently averaging 14.4). But then until @Iowa we were showing real improvement -- last 3 games: 13, 9, 6. The continuing losses on the road are really frustrating. What I see is a team that doesn't yet have the confidence on the road - I don't see a bad team, and we had the chance to win all of those road game, this last one being by far the worst fall off in the second half -- but Iowa is one of the best offensive teams in the country and playing at home.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/indiana/2021.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/indiana/2022.html

 

I don’t think you meant to misconstrue stats but you are not comparing apples to apples at all. You are comparing the entirety of last season which included the bigten gauntlet to our mostly cupcake pre-conference schedule from this year.

yea, our stats vs Marshall and Norhtern Kentucky are going to look better than our stats against Michigan State and Purdue. The fact that we are only 1/3 of the way through the rough part of our schedule makes that comparison really not a good one.

see how all those stats look in a few months

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×