Elam Ending

[Brass Cannon]

Am i the only one that doesnt mind the fouling strategy?

it rarely works but its always exciting when it does. 

[woodenshoemanHoosierfan]

Am i the only one that doesnt mind the fouling strategy?

it rarely works but its always exciting when it does. 

I don't mind it. It's definitely better than Elam's ending

 

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[Ryno6284]

The drawn-out last 5 mins. of a game is part of basketball.  This would absolutely suck if they adopt this!  

[coonhounds]

Way to big of change for my liking. It would totally change a game that i already love so i say terrible idea imo

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[Walking Boot of Doom]

Hardly anyone ever likes change at first. I think it’s an interesting possible solution. There are plenty of positives as well.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

Hardly anyone ever likes change at first. I think it’s an interesting possible solution. There are plenty of positives as well.


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Yeah, people are being ridiculous per usual. I do understand change is hard and I’m not even advocating change, just discussion.

99% of the discourse on this thread is just being adverse to change.

Elam has a 70 some odd page memorandum on why it is a better way to finish games.

Is it? Maybe not, but the reactions on this thread are sad and disappointing.


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[Brass Cannon]

35 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Yeah, people are being ridiculous per usual. I do understand change is hard and I’m not even advocating change, just discussion.

99% of the discourse on this thread is just being adverse to change.

Elam has a 70 some odd page memorandum on why it is a better way to finish games.

Is it? Maybe not, but the reactions on this thread are sad and disappointing.


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Change for the sake of change though is pointless.  Its a solution to a problem most of us don't seem to have.  In just about every topic about a game that goes into OT somebody correctly says something along the lines of free basketball.  This gets rid of that. 

If we think the game is perfect or as close as reasonable to ask the way it is, why would we discuss change?

The one change I would like to see made to basketball be the ability to appeal fouls at the Half or if we go to Quarters after each quarter.  The other team can keep any FTs they made, but the player gets the foul back.  This would serve to keep good players in the game as much as possible and let teams really duke it out.  Instead of letting "Mistakes" by the refs keep affecting the game well after they happen

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Change for the sake of change though is pointless.  Its a solution to a problem most of us don't seem to have.  In just about every topic about a game that goes into OT somebody correctly says something along the lines of free basketball.  This gets rid of that. 
If we think the game is perfect or as close as reasonable to ask the way it is, why would we discuss change?
The one change I would like to see made to basketball be the ability to appeal fouls at the Half or if we go to Quarters after each quarter.  The other team can keep any FTs they made, but the player gets the foul back.  This would serve to keep good players in the game as much as possible and let teams really duke it out.  Instead of letting "Mistakes" by the refs keep affecting the game well after they happen

To some, a free throw parade to decide a game is an equivalent to free kicks in soccer deciding a game.

The last 2-4 minutes of a game often times doesn’t resemble a basketball game.

Sure it’s strategy, that statistically rarely works.

This proposed ending strategy promotes more ‘true’ basketball.


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[mdn82]

Yeah, people are being ridiculous per usual. I do understand change is hard and I’m not even advocating change, just discussion.

 

99% of the discourse on this thread is just being adverse to change.

 

Elam has a 70 some odd page memorandum on why it is a better way to finish games.

 

Is it? Maybe not, but the reactions on this thread are sad and disappointing.

 

 

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Come on man. So you don’t like others point of view so we are being ridiculous like usual? No sir it’s this post on a forum that I think is being childish and ridiculous. Just because people feel a game doesn’t have issues at the end of it we are being ridiculous because we are against it? As a mod that felt old mods diminished others point of views what does this do?

 

 

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[mdn82]

To some, a free throw parade to decide a game is an equivalent to free kicks in soccer deciding a game.

The last 2-4 minutes of a game often times doesn’t resemble a basketball game.

Sure it’s strategy, that statistically rarely works.

This proposed ending strategy promotes more ‘true’ basketball.


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True basketball? If you are down big it’s either hack a Shaq and best 3 possible every time down. Or both. That’s true basketball?


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

True basketball? If you are down big it’s either hack a Shaq and best 3 possible every time down. Or both. That’s true basketball?


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‘True’ basketball in the sense that the last 5 minutes looks like the other 35 minutes. The true spirit of basketball.

To be clear, I’m fine with the way it is, my point with this thread was to promote discussion to the pros and cons of this alternative.

What we mostly got was resistant to change opinions for the sake of being resistant to change. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

And I agree, was just hoping for more fruitful discussion.


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[Brass Cannon]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

‘True’ basketball in the sense that the last 5 minutes looks like the other 35 minutes. The true spirit of basketball.

To be clear, I’m fine with the way it is, my point with this thread was to promote discussion to the pros and cons of this alternative.

What we mostly got was resistant to change opinions for the sake of being resistant to change. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

And I agree, was just hoping for more fruitful discussion.


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And why exactly would people want to even discuss it if they are A) Happy the way things are and B) Think this is silly.  

[mdn82]

‘True’ basketball in the sense that the last 5 minutes looks like the other 35 minutes. The true spirit of basketball.

To be clear, I’m fine with the way it is, my point with this thread was to promote discussion to the pros and cons of this alternative.

What we mostly got was resistant to change opinions for the sake of being resistant to change. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

And I agree, was just hoping for more fruitful discussion.


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You got resistance to change because most don’t feel there is an issue. As I said in my first post there are pros and cons. I can honestly say I didn’t feel the 5 was the same as the other 35. To come from behind you have to shoot 3s every time down. It was risk reward at both ends. Can be fun but not worth the change in system.


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[mdn82]

If we are talking about potential changes I would like to see, much like Brass I would vote for quarters.


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[WayneFleekHoosier]

You got resistance to change because most don’t feel there is an issue. As I said in my first post there are pros and cons. I can honestly say I didn’t feel the 5 was the same as the other 35. To come from behind you have to shoot 3s every time down. It was risk reward at both ends. Can be fun but not worth the change in system.


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My experience watching the games was most led to climactic finishes versus anticlimactic finishes. I think the odds would support it in the long haul.

Major changes to a sport are hard to do, and I can understand that. Seeing this in action in the CBI or something would be interesting and at least give people an idea of what it would look like.

On a smaller scale, the shot clock from 35 to 30 was resisted by many and that has turned out to be a great change.


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[Brass Cannon]

Is there really a problem with the last few minutes of a game being different in a sport. 

Happens in:

Football

Soccer

Baseball(Usually)

Hockey

Basketball

Others I’m sure I’m forgetting

[Brass Cannon]

Something else to consider is with Elam most games end up looking the exact same. 

I like the variety of close games being about defense and rebounding. Where as games where a team is down you get to see PGs really push the tempo of the team down and the team up has to really focus on passing, inbounding and FTs. 

The different tactics emphasize different fundamentals so we get variety in the endings. 

[mdn82]

My experience watching the games was most led to climactic finishes versus anticlimactic finishes. I think the odds would support it in the long haul.

Major changes to a sport are hard to do, and I can understand that. Seeing this in action in the CBI or something would be interesting and at least give people an idea of what it would look like.

On a smaller scale, the shot clock from 35 to 30 was resisted by many and that has turned out to be a great change.


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I think the move from 35-30 was a great one. It really only hurt a Wisconsin style of play. I thought most here were pretty happy with the rule change. I watched quite a few of the TBT games and I didn’t notice and huge change in either game or excitement. Honestly I felt no outcome was in doubt in the games I watched, and didn’t feel they would have been different in the modern rules. On the second paragraph it is just a change I don’t see them ever doing, because there isn’t a need/want for change. Like Brass said earlier that change for the sake of change just isn’t or shouldn’t happen. The overwhelming majority of people like it how it is. Discussion for change doesn’t really happen in those circumstances.


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[cleeter]

I’m a firm believer in the old adage “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. And I don’t think CBB is broke. 

Now I’m saying that, I like giving everything an opportunity/test run or at least try see it from both sides. 

If they want to try this out, try it out in 1) a couple exhibition/preseason games perhaps. Or 2) do a test run in the NIT like they did with the 4 quarters thing. 

That way everyone gets a chance to see it and be able to judge for themselves, along with it not impacting anything too too important. 

But I say leave it as is because, well, it’s fine the way it is. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by cleeter

[Walking Boot of Doom]

1 hour ago, cleeter said:

I’m a firm believer in the old adage “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”. And I don’t think CBB is broke. 

Now I’m saying that, I like giving everything an opportunity/test run or at least try see it from both sides. 

If they want to try this out, try it out in 1) a couple exhibition/preseason games perhaps. Or 2) do a test run in the NIT like they did with the 4 quarters thing. 

That way everyone gets a chance to see it and be able to judge for themselves, along with it not impacting anything too too important. 

But I say leave it as is because, well, it’s fine the way it is. 

I agree, but also, "the tragedy of life is often not in our failure, but rather in our complacency."

I also agree that the NIT is a great test lab for changes to the game. No reason not to try to improve a "fine" product and see if you can make it better!