Indiana vs OSU Game Thread - 8/31 @ 8:00ET on ESPN

[JSHoosier 20,280]

41 minutes ago, ThompsonHoosier said:

What would have made you feel better about Lagow this past Thursday? Tuck the ball and take the sack every other play? Throw the ball to the sidelines? Would that have been better decision making? I'm sure he would have still been criticized if he "took care" of the ball, but we would have lost either way; OSU just had more talent top to bottom.

Throwing the out of bounds would've been better than some of the things he did.  Like trying to evade a sack at the last second because he didn't feel the rush coming then attempting some poor excuse of a half arsed "pass" just to get the ball out of his hands leading to intentional grounding or (nearly) a fumble returned for TD.

I said he looked better in some ways.  I'll concede there were bigger problems, because there were.  Some of the discussion around Lagow is warranted though because in some ways he was the same.

[Old Friend 8,389]

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

We're really not though. We watched him throw 17 interceptions last year and many other passes that could've been interceptions. We watched him make many of the same mistakes Thursday night that he made last season. Sure it was against a great team, but it's still worrisome. 

At the end of the day, worrisome,  why?  Until he costs us a game we should win, this is a 6-8 win team either way.  He is by far the best we have, so why be so uptight about a couple of bad throws in 65 attempts?  Why be upset over "forced throws" when the game plan was to throw it up and ask receivers to make plays?  

He may be exactly the same as he was.....but I also think after that game, when we simply could not run the ball and played against a far superior and deeper team, making blanket statements is premature, especially given his production when the game still mattered.  

I know he had 3 turnovers, but that's a very simplistic and incomplete way to look at it in my mind.

[Hoosierfan2017 21,503]

32 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

At the end of the day, worrisome,  why?  Until he costs us a game we should win, this is a 6-8 win team either way.  He is by far the best we have, so why be so uptight about a couple of bad throws in 65 attempts?  Why be upset over "forced throws" when the game plan was to throw it up and ask receivers to make plays?  

He may be exactly the same as he was.....but I also think after that game, when we simply could not run the ball and played against a far superior and deeper team, making blanket statements is premature, especially given his production when the game still mattered.  

I know he had 3 turnovers, but that's a very simplistic and incomplete way to look at it in my mind.

I hope that you're right. We'll get a much better idea of where he's at once he faces some non-title contending teams. 

[Old Friend 8,389]

2 minutes ago, Hoosierfan2017 said:

I hope that you're right. We'll get a much better idea of where he's at once he faces some non-title contending teams. 

All I'm saying.  I hope I'm right, too.  I think he executed the game plan a lot more than he made several poor decisions.   In 65 throws, not all will be perfect.  Several were.

[TXHoosierDaddy 1,375]

I don't think the defense has regressed but I'm not sure there is much depth to speak of. 

Interesting, Virginia won their opener 28-10 against William and Mary. However, W&M rushed for 168 total yards.  Next week will give us a good idea if we can run the ball at all. 

[Miller'sTheMan 1,652]

What's the deal with Knight @RT? Will he be good to go vs Virginia?

[Crimson and Cream 5,830]

10 hours ago, Old Friend said:

It is one game. This season.   He had 3 TD's, over 300 yards, and 1 INT on a tipped ball during the time in the game when it mattered.   Against the #2 team in the country.  OSU has 4 players on defense projected in the top 2 rounds of the 2018 NFL mock draft.  Laughable...how, exactly? 

So some NFL players on their roster makes them an NFL team? I guess there's a lot of NFL teams in college then right? We must be considered an NFL team too since we have several players who will likely be playing on Sundays eventually. And unfortunately you can't just choose what stats you like. He had 3 turnovers and he's lucky it wasn't 2 or 3 more. That's the facts. He has never been able to take care of the ball and that didn't change Thursday. Facts. 

[Crimson and Cream 5,830]

10 hours ago, Old Friend said:

Context matters.  Talk to me in a week or two.  Let's see how he does against "everybody."  OSU is not "everybody."   There's nobody behind him close to better, and Indiana is absolutely a 6-8 win team if they stay healthy; so you all are just bitching for the sake of bitching.

I could say the exact same thing to you. I agree that we're still a 6-8 win team. All we're saying is he looks the same as last year. If you can't accept a little criticism that's on you. This guy's not on any NFL radars so let's not act like he's Aaron Rodgers over here. He is what he is. 

[Crimson and Cream 5,830]

2 hours ago, ThompsonHoosier said:

What would have made you feel better about Lagow this past Thursday? Tuck the ball and take the sack every other play? Throw the ball to the sidelines? Would that have been better decision making? I'm sure he would have still been criticized if he "took care" of the ball, but we would have lost either way; OSU just had more talent top to bottom.

That's exactly what I kept pleading for the entire game. Throw it away and live another play. You can't blame Lagow for getting pressured, our line was getting demolished. But you can blame him for how he handled that pressure...the same way he always has, but making dumb throws, taking big sacks, and fumbling it away.

[Old Friend 8,389]

5 minutes ago, Crimson and Cream said:

So some NFL players on their roster makes them an NFL team? I guess there's a lot of NFL teams in college then right? We must be considered an NFL team too since we have several players who will likely be playing on Sundays eventually. And unfortunately you can't just choose what stats you like. He had 3 turnovers and he's lucky it wasn't 2 or 3 more. That's the facts. He has never been able to take care of the ball and that didn't change Thursday. Facts. 

So you can emininate context and game plan and the fact Indiana couldn't run the ball.  You can ignore the eyeball test. You can take 4 players projected in 2 rounds of one draft (let alone others projected in others or in later rounds),  and just ignore it in favor of criticism?  Got it.   You're like the old men in the balcony of the Muppet Show.  Just complaining for the sake of it and applying facts without context so you convince yourself you're right.  You may be.  But if you you really don't think context and game plan mattered this week, I tbink you're foolish.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

What would have made you feel better about Lagow this past Thursday? Tuck the ball and take the sack every other play? Throw the ball to the sidelines? Would that have been better decision making? I'm sure he would have still been criticized if he "took care" of the ball, but we would have lost either way; OSU just had more talent top to bottom.

Glad you brought this up. I feel like if Lagow had improved "by a lot" he would have felt the pressure. I doubt he could have made a progression that led to a third receiver. However, I would like to see him look at option 1 and option 2 and then get rid of it. He tried to make a play when it wasn't there. We can question all we want but for my liking he was too careless with the ball.

My point on this isn't about a win or loss. I don't think we beat O$U even with a clean game on the TO column. We might beat a lesser FIU or GSU when we turn the ball over like that. That is not progress to me. We need good to great games against teams like Maryland, MSU, pu, Ill, and Rutger to get to at least 6 wins. I don't see that happening if Lagow doesn't value the ball. The run game isn't going to be as good as last season.

Bottom line: I want to bowl for a third straight year. If Lagow continues to make questionable passes we won't be doing that.

[Crimson and Cream 5,830]

3 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

So you can emininate context and game plan and the fact Indiana couldn't run the ball.  You can ignore the eyeball test. You can take 4 players projected in 2 rounds of one draft (let alone others projected in others or in later rounds),  and just ignore it in favor of criticism?  Got it.   You're like the old men in the balcony of the Muppet Show.  Just complaining for the sake of it and applying facts without context so you convince yourself you're right.  You may be.  But if you you really don't think context and game plan mattered this week, I tbink you're foolish.

Who eliminated that? I've said as much multiple times in this thread, not my fault reading and comprehension is hard for you. I'll say it once more, nobody is saying Lagow costed us this game. He had some beautiful throws, mostly in the first half. But again, the same problem as all of last year arose and that was that when he receives pressure he gets out of control with the ball and turns it over and you just can't do it at the rate he does. Again, we saw it all last year against all different levels of opponents (Wake Forest game) so this is not a blind one game statement. I hope he fixes it but I've given up hope on that at this point. You're free to disagree but the only foolishness around here is that Lagow can't be criticized without his boyfriends popping up to defend his honor.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

So some NFL players on their roster makes them an NFL team? I guess there's a lot of NFL teams in college then right? We must be considered an NFL team too since we have several players who will likely be playing on Sundays eventually. And unfortunately you can't just choose what stats you like. He had 3 turnovers and he's lucky it wasn't 2 or 3 more. That's the facts. He has never been able to take care of the ball and that didn't change Thursday. Facts. 

Blanket statements are okay when they come from one side and not the other.

I didn't think O$U's secondary was all that great. They do have an outstanding d-line though.

I get the theory of some points matter more than others but they all count the same. If the game would have ended after we scored the first TD we would have won!

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

Lagow was the least of our problems this week. Plenty of other heads on sticks.

Granted Lagow had some bad games last year so he doesn't get any benefit of the doubt from many this year.

RB, OL, DL. Areas of concern. Same as Colts for 10 plus years.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

This! Our run game isn't going to be as good as last season. We need to find something that can get us yards here and there.

Our lines got pushed around and wore down. If that continues to happen it'll be difficult to get 6.

I do like our secondary and receivers though. If we can get pressure on the QB by blitzing we might be able to turn some teams over. If we can get the ball to our playmakers downfield we'll be able to score.

[Old Friend 8,389]

13 minutes ago, Crimson and Cream said:

Who eliminated that? I've said as much multiple times in this thread, not my fault reading and comprehension is hard for you. I'll say it once more, nobody is saying Lagow costed us this game. He had some beautiful throws, mostly in the first half. But again, the same problem as all of last year arose and that was that when he receives pressure he gets out of control with the ball and turns it over and you just can't do it at the rate he does. Again, we saw it all last year against all different levels of opponents (Wake Forest game) so this is not a blind one game statement. I hope he fixes it but I've given up hope on that at this point. You're free to disagree but the only foolishness around here is that Lagow can't be criticized without his boyfriends popping up to defend his honor.

Good Lord.  Grow up.   He's a kid.  He was executing a game plan, and had turnovers any QB on the planet would have had, and you're so convinced you need to be critical you resort to this childish garbage hoping for a laugh from the rest of the people who don't understand this is a brand new offensive staff, game planning against by far the best team he'll see, putting him in position to make mistakes, but also succeed.  

The first INT was a tipped ball.  Defensive guy made a play, and you still feel like you need to blame him.  The other INT happened when the game was decided and he was trying to make a play.  This is a new season and I promise you he and everyone who works with him focused on the turnovers.  It's like you all think he's an idiot incapable of learning lessons.  He's not, and he does get the benefit of the doubt from me because he's the quarterback.  He is not under pressure from anyone better, and I know absolutely that he's aware of last season and focused on being better.  That's not my opinion; and I didn't see a kid prone to mistakes; I saw a kid playing against an incredible team that pressured our entire offense; and we STILL had a lead in the middle of the 3rd quarter.  I think time will show OSU is no ordinary football team; and our line still has some developing to do.

 That pressure was far more than he'll see again, and I didn't think he played that poorly under that duress.  It's not like he threw 4 INT's because of pressure.  Maybe he threw one.  You do understand the throws he made to receivers with 1 on 1 coverage were asked of him, right?   Not his decisions.  Not because of pressure.  That's the context you miss.  He threw 65 balls.  Two were picked.  One was his fault, but the game was already decided at that point.  Context.  Again, let's see where he is next week.  My boyfriends and I have a date and we're all wearing his jersey with crimson eye make up.  May we buy you a lemonade?

[Crimson and Cream 5,830]

3 minutes ago, Old Friend said:

Good Lord.  Grow up.   He's a kid.  He was executing a game plan, and had turnovers any QB on the planet would have had, and you're so convinced you need to be critical you resort to this childish garbage hoping for a laugh from the rest of the people who don't understand this is a brand new offensive staff, game planning against by far the best team he'll see, putting him in position to make mistakes, but also succeed.  

The first INT was a tipped ball.  Defensive guy made a play, and you still feel like you need to blame him.  The other INT happened when the game was decided and he was trying to make a play.  This is a new season.  That pressure was far more than he'll see again, and I didn't think he played that poorly under that duress.  It's not like he threw 4 INT's because of pressure.  Maybe he threw one.  You do understand the throws he made to receivers with 1 on 1 coverage were asked of him, right?   Not his decisions.  Not because of pressure.  That's the context you miss.  He threw 65 balls.  Two were picked.  One was his fault, but the game was already decided at that point.  Context.  Again, let's see where he is next week.  My boyfriends and I have a date and we're all wearing his jersey with crimson eye make up.  May we buy you a lemonade?

It's evident you have some attachment to the kid so we might as well end this. Continue to make excuses for him and I will continue to criticize the mistakes and we'll each continue to think the other is wrong. That's just how it's going to be.

[Old Friend 8,389]

19 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Glad you brought this up. I feel like if Lagow had improved "by a lot" he would have felt the pressure. I doubt he could have made a progression that led to a third receiver. However, I would like to see him look at option 1 and option 2 and then get rid of it. He tried to make a play when it wasn't there. We can question all we want but for my liking he was too careless with the ball.

My point on this isn't about a win or loss. I don't think we beat O$U even with a clean game on the TO column. We might beat a lesser FIU or GSU when we turn the ball over like that. That is not progress to me. We need good to great games against teams like Maryland, MSU, pu, Ill, and Rutger to get to at least 6 wins. I don't see that happening if Lagow doesn't value the ball. The run game isn't going to be as good as last season.

Bottom line: I want to bowl for a third straight year. If Lagow continues to make questionable passes we won't be doing that.

This is where you're missing the point I and others have made.  This was not a progression read game plan.  This was "find the 1 on 1 and throw it" game plan.   Lagow was not given an opportunity to value the ball.  He was told to let his receivers make plays in 1 on 1 matchups; especially w Cobbs.   We did not have time to go through normal progressions.  He did not have time to make decisions.  In essence, decisions were taken out of his hands much of the time.   

[Crimson and Cream 5,830]

14 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Blanket statements are okay when they come from one side and not the other.

I didn't think O$U's secondary was all that great. They do have an outstanding d-line though.

I get the theory of some points matter more than others but they all count the same. If the game would have ended after we scored the first TD we would have won!

Exactly. You'd have thought I would have said he was the worst player on the team based on the reactions. Apparently you can't criticize our starting QB that's had nearly as many INT's as TD's during his time here without his family/close friends having a hissy fit. Doesn't bother me. I will continue to point out his turnover problems if they continue because it's obviously a big issue.

[Old Friend 8,389]

7 minutes ago, Crimson and Cream said:

It's evident you have some attachment to the kid so we might as well end this. Continue to make excuses for him and I will continue to criticize the mistakes and we'll each continue to think the other is wrong. That's just how it's going to be.

I have no attachment to this kid at all.   I do laugh at "excuses."  Reasons are not excuses.  See above.  The game plan was very clear....find one on one matchups on the outside and throw the ball to that player; especially Cobbs.  It ended up being Hale much of the time, also.   When OSU doubled the outside, he frequently found Timion on crossing routes; but he was not going through progressions.  No\t deciding where to throw the ball; and in fact audibled out of running plays to throw into 1 on 1 coverage multiple times.  That was the game plan.   I don't yet think you're wrong.  I even said you may be right given time.  But after that game, and that game plan,...in which decision making was taken for the most part away from him; I don't think it's fair to make the statements you made.

Basically?  Me, my boyfriends, and my hissy fits think you're making statements without knowing what you were watching.  I'll be here next week and after if you turn out to be right, and I'll even give you credit.  In turn, where will you be?  Context matters.   

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

This is where you're missing the point I and others have made.  This was not a progression read game plan.  This was "find the 1 on 1 and throw it" game plan.   Lagow was not given an opportunity to value the ball.  He was told to let his receivers make plays in 1 on 1 matchups; especially w Cobbs.   We did not have time to go through normal progressions.  He did not have time to make decisions.  In essence, decisions were taken out of his hands much of the time.   

I wouldn't necessarily call poking at a second receiver and then getting rid of the ball a "progression read" game plan. Lagow has very little pocket awareness and that's why he's not being talked about in the NFL even with his size and arm strength.

Find 1v1 before snap, see if it opens, check 2nd option, ball out. He had time for that. Instead he stared down his receiver, O$U learned from it and destroyed us in the second half.