ESPN Cleaning House

[Brass Cannon 25,577]

2 minutes ago, KB0 said:

I keep seeing the MTV example thrown around a lot. Do you think MTV would still be around today if all they showed was music videos? I don't. YouTube exists. We have smart phones. They adapted to survive. 

I think the better argument is that they didn't adapt in the correct way. Perhaps MTV should have shown more up and coming artist videos. Or maybe they should have produced features similar to the 30 for 30 models on popular bands. Things of that nature.

I'm not an MTV fan by any means, but they read the the tea leaves and made adjustments. MTV is still around today. Many brands fail to adapt (Blockbuster and Kodak instantly jump to mind) and either die off or become significantly less profitable.

ESPN is trying to adapt. Many, myself included, just don't think they have done a great job with it so far.

MTV stopped playing music videos long before YouTube 

[Hovadipo 62,032]

Well in this case the ratings show simpler is better thats why ESPN's ratings have went down.

I think ESPN's ratings are down because of people not buying/watching cable more than anything else. People don't need highlight shows anymore because of new media. I saw on Twitter that the feedback they get says that people actually gravitate more toward the flaming hot take debate shows than a lot of people think.

(I wish SportsCenter went back to highlights, but it's just not going to happen)

[Dalton26 17,208]

 

I think ESPN's ratings are down because of people not buying/watching cable more than anything else. People don't need highlight shows anymore because of new media. I saw on Twitter that the feedback they get says that people actually gravitate more toward the flaming hot take debate shows than a lot of people think.

 

(I wish SportsCenter went back to highlights, but it's just not going to happen)

I think that plays a part in it but not the sole reason. ESPN said as much in a statement many months ago that they believed their rating drop had more to do with the way they minimized conservatives.

 

I don't think any one thing is the cause, I think it's that they have fundamentally screwed up on multiple fronts.

[KB0 827]

1 minute ago, Hovadipo said:

 

I think ESPN's ratings are down because of people not buying/watching cable more than anything else. People don't need highlight shows anymore because of new media. I saw on Twitter that the feedback they get says that people actually gravitate more toward the flaming hot take debate shows than a lot of people think.

(I wish SportsCenter went back to highlights, but it's just not going to happen)

 

I agree with this. I also think this is a complicated discussion with many contributing factors.

Sensationalism sells. More people watch those debate shows than actually admit it publicly.

I think there is a market for well thought-out, researched, and nuanced takes. Sports Illustrated for example. Unfortunately, I think this is an increasingly smaller market. It's easier to watch a three minute argument on a subject than to read a one thousand word article or watch a thirty minute segment. 

A show that is strictly highlights would struggle to exist today. I can hop on youtube or iuhoosiers.com and see extended highlights of the IU game without having to wait around all morning. 

ESPN isn't going anywhere. They are still an absolute giant. They've overpaid for some broadcast rights (looking at MNF), because they wanted more live events. In order to survive, they will continue to change. The ESPN we grew up with doesn't exist anymore. The ESPN that is around today, won't be around in ten years.

Maybe they'll figure it out and start producing some new quality content. I'm just not holding out hope anymore. 

[Stuhoo 90,788]

5 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

I think that plays a part in it but not the sole reason. ESPN said as much in a statement many months ago that they believed their rating drop had more to do with the way they minimized conservatives.

I don't think anyone one thing is the cause, I think it's that they have fundamentally screwed up on multiple fronts.

 

Really?

I'd like to see a link where they said that.

 

[theriverpilot 6,743]

20 minutes ago, KB0 said:

I keep seeing the MTV example thrown around a lot. Do you think MTV would still be around today if all they showed was music videos? I don't. YouTube exists. We have smart phones. They adapted to survive. 

I think the better argument is that they didn't adapt in the correct way. Perhaps MTV should have shown more up and coming artist videos. Or maybe they should have produced features similar to the 30 for 30 models on popular bands. Things of that nature.

I'm not an MTV fan by any means, but they read the the tea leaves and made adjustments. MTV is still around today. Many brands fail to adapt (Blockbuster and Kodak instantly jump to mind) and either die off or become significantly less profitable.

ESPN is trying to adapt. Many, myself included, just don't think they have done a great job with it so far.

I agree, possibly a bad comparison with MTV.  It's just something someone my age instantly goes back to.  But your last sentence nails it.  They haven't done the best job in adapting.

[Dalton26 17,208]

 
Really?
I'd like to see a link where they said that.
 

I'll post it when I get back to my computer. I have the article pulled up on my desktop.

[Dalton26 17,208]

9 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Really?

I'd like to see a link where they said that.

 

Here is the article that includes quotes from Jim Brady who is ESPN's Public Editor 

http://truthfeed.com/dramatic-ratings-drop-forces-espn-to-admit-they-have-mistreated-conservative-viewers/39942/

 

[Dalton26 17,208]

Just for discussions sake here is another article from Jim Brady

http://www.espn.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/id/767/inside-and-out-espn-dealing-with-changing-political-dynamics

[Stuhoo 90,788]

6 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

Here is the article that includes quotes from Jim Brady who is ESPN's Public Editor 

http://truthfeed.com/dramatic-ratings-drop-forces-espn-to-admit-they-have-mistreated-conservative-viewers/39942/

 

 

Well heck...Jim Brady is the Ombudsman for ESPN, and the article you linked is certainly NOT by him. Reading "Newsbusters" or "Truthfeed" for an accurate quote by the ESPN Ombudsman is the equivalent of reading "Liberal Society" for the unvarnished truth. 

If you want to read what Brady actually said about the topic, ya might want to read what BRADY actually wrote about it. What he wrote is not a series of cherry picked quotes with lots of highly-opinionated commentary all around them. However, what he wrote is complex and interesting. It divides the "more", the "less", and the "not at all" aspects of public and political discourse on ESPN. It absolutely declares that certain segments of ESPN are not sticking to sports (i.e; 538) and that others are sports only (ie; Sportscenter, ESPN News). Here is Brady's full take on the subject:

http://www.espn.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/id/831/not-sticking-to-sports-the-right-move-for-espn

 

 

 

[Stuhoo 90,788]

16 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

Just for discussions sake here is another article from Jim Brady

http://www.espn.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/id/767/inside-and-out-espn-dealing-with-changing-political-dynamics

 

Yes! You beat me to it with another full-on take by Brady. This article, also, gives a clear picture of what he hears at ESPN and what his findings are.

The primary takeaway? Many people of all stripes think that they are being stepped on for their views. Brady sums up ESPN's ultimate predicament:

"I don’t believe there’s malice intended, either. But, in talking to people in the course of reporting this piece, it is clear that ESPN has a challenge in front of it. I don’t think the answer is to try to stifle those with strong viewpoints; rather, it’s to make sure a broader range of voices are heard.

Why, some might ask? Because, at heart, ESPN is a business. And based on a Gallup survey on political affiliation from mid-September, 44 percent of the country identifies itself as either “Republican” or “leans Republican.” That’s less than the 49 percent that identifies itself as “Democrat” or “leans Democrat,” but not by much.

If ESPN continues to let its personalities debate the issues of the day but finds a way to better balance those conversations, it will be richer for it. In more ways than one."

[Dalton26 17,208]

 

Well heck...Jim Brady is the Ombudsman for ESPN, and the article you linked is certainly NOT by him. Reading "Newsbusters" or "Truthfeed" for an accurate quote by the ESPN Ombudsman is the equivalent of reading "Liberal Society" for the unvarnished truth. 

If you want to read what Brady actually said about the topic, ya might want to read what BRADY actually wrote about it. What he wrote is not a series of cherry picked quotes with lots of highly-opinionated commentary all around them. However, what he wrote is complex and interesting. It divides the "more", the "less", and the "not at all" aspects of public and political discourse on ESPN. It absolutely declares that certain segments of ESPN are not sticking to sports (i.e; 538) and that others are sports only (ie; Sportscenter, ESPN News). Here is Brady's full take on the subject:

http://www.espn.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/id/831/not-sticking-to-sports-the-right-move-for-espn

 

 

 

 

I didn't say anywhere that article was by him I said it included quotes by him. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

 

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[Dalton26 17,208]

The proof is in the pudding when it comes to ESPN being a liberal company that has tried to push politics into their show. It's happened, although I do think they've got better at slowly pushing away from it.

Either way you spin it ESPN sucks and has sucked for a while.


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

The proof is in the pudding when it comes to ESPN being a liberal company that has tried to push politics into their show. It's happened, although I do think they've got better at slowly pushing away from it.

Either way you spin it ESPN sucks and has sucked for a while.


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Their shows with strong political voices have had the best ratings on their network. That's where I disagree with you. Ratings decline is certain a broad cable issue.


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[Stuhoo 90,788]

21 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

 

I didn't say anywhere that article was by him I said it included quotes by him. Don't put words in my mouth.

 

 

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Not putting words in your mouth, just wasn't a fan of linking to a highly-charged website to lay out the words of Brady. Then you linked straight to Brady! Which is, in my opinion, way better and as accurate as can be.

Brady generally supports the point (and one of your points) that everything has gotten more political (or at least, was very much so in 2016), that ratings have dictated that opinion spewers are what is good for their business, and that guys like Schilling have a style of opinion that direct conflicts with long-standing corporate policy.  That, and that so many athletes (who comprise a majority of their opinion base) come from a segment of society that trends left of center.  Do a  majority of their viewers come from the same opinion base? He says yes, but barely.

Quite the conundrum for ESPN: 

1. Stay a highlight channel and fade at the expense of readily available web highlights, or
2. Have lots of opinion spewers and routinely piss off viewers that don't like those opinions.

 

 

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

They just need SVP on 24/7 whether he's doing political views, or highlights.

[Dalton26 17,208]

Just to clarify my point a little bit I'm not saying I want them to push conservative politics instead, I want them to do away with politics all together. Will that happen? Not a chance. That's why I don't watch a whole lot of ESPN anymore.


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[Stuhoo 90,788]

11 minutes ago, Dalton26 said:

Just to clarify my point a little bit I'm not saying I want them to push conservative politics instead, I want them to do away with politics all together. Will that happen? Not a chance. That's why I don't watch a whole lot of ESPN anymore.


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No, no...I get it that you feel that way and I agree!

I guess when ESPN makes the corporate decision that opinion shows are the best way to keep the business profitable, it is very difficult to expect those opinionated hosts to hold back during the numerous times that sports and popular culture collide.

 

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,791]

I'm a sports junkie and the liberal media take by ESPN is a complete turn off to me. I'm not overly political and that's the way I like my sports.

I can enjoy a liberal take. I've enjoyed Colin Cowherd on the radio because he's intelligent. I've enjoyed LeBatard because he's funny and also very intelligent.

But in general, just show sports please.


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

I'm a sports junkie and the liberal media take by ESPN is a complete turn off to me. I'm not overly political and that's the way I like my sports.

I can enjoy a liberal take. I've enjoyed Colin Cowherd on the radio because he's intelligent. I've enjoyed LeBatard because he's funny and also very intelligent.

But in general, just show sports please.


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If they do that, they'll die. Harsh reality for both sides.


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