(2018) F Cole Swider

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

At least a few top 50's hot damn that's setting the bar high.

[Crimson and Cream 5,782]

11 hours ago, Stuhoo said:

 

Getting him to Btown is of course, key; especially if Xavier is the primary competition.

Both good basketball programs, but very different feel to IU and Xavier campus: Theirs is Jesuit, 5,000 undergrads, and near a big city. Ours is big campus that stands as the primary institution in its town. 

 

 

The campus basically is a city itself

[IUaic 90]

18 hours ago, VO5 said:

I have a lot of faith in Archie, but this class is going to be tough for him. Not many recruits watched Dayton, so they don't have much to go off in terms of product on the court. He's also late to the game in building relationships for this class and it might be the cause for some recruits going elsewhere.

What we definitely have in our favor is playing time, facilities, a basketball crazy fan base, and of course Archie. This will hopefully be enough for a few of the big names we're recruiting. It will be difficult though.

We have tons of playing time to offer the 2018 class. Besides Kentucky, who else can offer that many available minutes due to roster departures after this year???

 

[VO5 8,272]

8 hours ago, MikeRoberts said:

Not picking on you but I hate this. There have been several people making statements like this and I don't get it. We have THE best staff in the country according to so many on here and they are coaching at one of the blue bloods with a ton of playing time to offer. There is zero reason this staff shouldn't pull in at least a few top 50 kids in this 2018 class. I think we are all so used to making excuses for Crean that we feel like we need to do it for Miller right off the bat.


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I think you're underselling the importance of relationships in recruiting. Put yourself in the kids shoes. You can have the best staff in the country and still miss. We've been in on some of these kids for a few weeks, while most of the other coaches have had years to talk to them. Who would you feel more comfortable with when selling a vision? 

[Brass Cannon 24,271]

32 minutes ago, VO5 said:

I think you're underselling the importance of relationships in recruiting. Put yourself in the kids shoes. You can have the best staff in the country and still miss. We've been in on some of these kids for a few weeks, while most of the other coaches have had years to talk to them. Who would you feel more comfortable with when selling a vision? 

To your point of relationships its obvious that Archie and/or Ostrom is tight with the kids AAU coach.  That is much more important than being the first in on the kid.  

[VO5 8,272]

18 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

To your point of relationships its obvious that Archie and/or Ostrom is tight with the kids AAU coach.  That is much more important than being the first in on the kid.  

I get that. But we aren't getting the AAU coach to come here. Sure, the coach can have the kids ear. But ultimately it's up to the kid. 

[Stuhoo 79,788]

17 minutes ago, VO5 said:

I get that. But we aren't getting the AAU coach to come here. Sure, the coach can have the kids ear. But ultimately it's up to the kid. 

 

I think you're both right. Ultimately it's the player and his family's choice. But, the opinions of the AAU coach are extremely important, and one of the primary reasons that we apparently have such an excellent new staff is because of their connections, and their reputation among those connections.

Put yourself in the shoes of Cole Swider and his family: The kid is blowing up big-time at a national AAU tournament, and so very many power 5 schools that Swider is only vaguely familiar with are asking for access to him. He surveys the landscape with his AAU coach who tells him that either:

1. IU is a historic program with great facilities, an incredible fan-base, and a coach that is manic and quirky, or
2. IU is a historic program with great facilities, an incredible fan-base, and a coach and assistants that are a class act to their very core.

In my opinion, we were in category '1' far too often in the past, and we are now squarely in category '2'. And that's why we are in the mix with Swider, Langford, Brooks, Hunter, Garland, Wiseman, Stewart, etc, etc.

 

 

[GnarlyTimGarl 1,433]

41 minutes ago, VO5 said:

I think you're underselling the importance of relationships in recruiting. Put yourself in the kids shoes. You can have the best staff in the country and still miss. We've been in on some of these kids for a few weeks, while most of the other coaches have had years to talk to them. Who would you feel more comfortable with when selling a vision? 

I think this is true to an extent, but you don't want to oversell the "relationship" angle, either. If Swider is truly blowing up, what do you think would happen if UK, Duke, Kansas or UNC suddenly offered? I have a hard time believing those schools wouldn't become an immediate contender even though there was no prior relationship between the two parties. Why? Because they're the elite and even though previous relationships may not have existed, I'm not sure it matters with those schools. If your program is big like that, you can get "in" with a recruit without much of a relationship. I think the IU brand still resonates in a similar way for many (although I know that point is debatable.)

Now, it's true we're not at the level of those schools. But we're in the next tier below when it comes to tradition, exposure and potential for success. Many of the recruits we're after for 2018 (sans Langford and Garland) do not have the "elite" offers, so we're considered among their best, if not their best, offer. I guarantee you that means something to a lot of recruits. A lot of kids want to play at the highest level they can. We offer that for a lot of the guys we're after. We're not Illinois. We're not Purdue. So we should be able to nab some of those guys.

In the case of Swider, we'll see. Archie has done enough to make his Top 8 in a short time. I imagine that a few more months of relationship building will only help our case at this rate. Sure, we're going up against some other "name" schools in Syracuse, Michigan and Villanova. And he spoke very highly of Xavier. But considering the impact we have already made on him and barring a quick decision from him, I think we have a shot. We might get beat because of the relationship factor, but as we've seen as Hoosier fans for years (Kris Wilkes, Gary Harris, Zak Irvin, Jaquan Lyle, Trevon Blueitt, etc.) that doesn't always play as big of a role as we think it does. But I suppose each recruit is a unique case all its own.

[VO5 8,272]

1 hour ago, GnarlyTimGarl said:

I think this is true to an extent, but you don't want to oversell the "relationship" angle, either. If Swider is truly blowing up, what do you think would happen if UK, Duke, Kansas or UNC suddenly offered? I have a hard time believing those schools wouldn't become an immediate contender even though there was no prior relationship between the two parties. Why? Because they're the elite and even though previous relationships may not have existed, I'm not sure it matters with those schools. If your program is big like that, you can get "in" with a recruit without much of a relationship. I think the IU brand still resonates in a similar way for many (although I know that point is debatable.)

Now, it's true we're not at the level of those schools. But we're in the next tier below when it comes to tradition, exposure and potential for success. Many of the recruits we're after for 2018 (sans Langford and Garland) do not have the "elite" offers, so we're considered among their best, if not their best, offer. I guarantee you that means something to a lot of recruits. A lot of kids want to play at the highest level they can. We offer that for a lot of the guys we're after. We're not Illinois. We're not Purdue. So we should be able to nab some of those guys.

In the case of Swider, we'll see. Archie has done enough to make his Top 8 in a short time. I imagine that a few more months of relationship building will only help our case at this rate. Sure, we're going up against some other "name" schools in Syracuse, Michigan and Villanova. And he spoke very highly of Xavier. But considering the impact we have already made on him and barring a quick decision from him, I think we have a shot. We might get beat because of the relationship factor, but as we've seen as Hoosier fans for years (Kris Wilkes, Gary Harris, Zak Irvin, Jaquan Lyle, Trevon Blueitt, etc.) that doesn't always play as big of a role as we think it does. But I suppose each recruit is a unique case all its own.

I agree with a lot of this. The reality is like you said though, we aren't UK, UNC, Duke, etc. We can't just jump in and offer and change the entire recruitment like those schools can. Swider saw an Xavier team make it to the elite 8 this past year. They have a solid fan base and bball tradition (obviously ours is better), and he's built a good relationship with their staff. 

Another angle I'm coming from is these guys haven't seen Archie coach a single game for IU. He's a relative unknown at a big school and let's be honest, none of these guys were watching Dayton. I'm just saying for this class, it will be hard for Archie to sell anything other than a vision and what IU offers. There isn't any on the court success to point to like others have. Couple that with being behind on relationships and I can see where we will lose some recruits to that. I'm not saying it isn't possible to land a great class yet, just that Archie really has his work cut out for him for 2018. 

[MikeRoberts 6,921]

2 top 50 kids in a big class at IU that can offer a ton of playing time is and should be expected. If they aren't too 50, they need to play like it. If we don't we are going to be down and lose a lot of momentum


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[8bucks 6,352]

Not picking on you but I hate this. There have been several people making statements like this and I don't get it. We have THE best staff in the country according to so many on here and they are coaching at one of the blue bloods with a ton of playing time to offer. There is zero reason this staff shouldn't pull in at least a few top 50 kids in this 2018 class. I think we are all so used to making excuses for Crean that we feel like we need to do it for Miller right off the bat.


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Why is it that we think we have the best staff in the country?

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Why is it that we think we have the best staff in the country?

Because Crean was the worst and Archie is the next coming of RMK. He even has his blessing.

Really though, everyone is just over hyping everything because we're excited for new possibilities. Ed Schilling is a very strong hire. The rest of the staff seem solid as well, but you won't see me saying it's the best staff in the NCAA.


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[MikeRoberts 6,921]

I too have no idea how people jumped to that conclusion but I've read it plenty on here, all the way from Archie to his assistants to the trainer etc. I think it's a solid bunch but I am so confused how some of the same people that have made those statements are also saying it's going to be tough for them to land these recruits that are in our threads.


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[mdn82 25,510]

I too have no idea how people jumped to that conclusion but I've read it plenty on here, all the way from Archie to his assistants to the trainer etc. I think it's a solid bunch but I am so confused how some of the same people that have made those statements are also saying it's going to be tough for them to land these recruits that are in our threads.


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Any of the elite players it is hard to see at this point if we are the top player or a huge player. At the end of summer we should have a better idea who is a possibility between Garland, Romeo, or any other instant 25-30 mpg stud as a Frosh. I do feel we will pluck at least 1 top 25 kid. Not on anything concrete just feeling of initial momentum in quotes from kids.


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[MikeRoberts 6,921]

Any of the elite players it is hard to see at this point if we are the top player or a huge player. At the end of summer we should have a better idea who is a possibility between Garland, Romeo, or any other instant 25-30 mpg stud as a Frosh. I do feel we will pluck at least 1 top 25 kid. Not on anything concrete just feeling of initial momentum in quotes from kids.


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I would think so too. I think given the circumstances and what we have to sell, I would think we would get at least a few of these top tier guys. Just keep reading excuses for why we won't


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[HoosierAloha 30,024]

I would think so too. I think given the circumstances and what we have to sell, I would think we would get at least a few of these top tier guys. Just keep reading excuses for why we won't


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Who, in particular, is making these statements? It might be better to respond to the individual instead of some random post?

I think this coach and staff have the potential to make Indiana into a power again. I believe that because of the way he has conducted himself and the people he has chosen to be part of his staff. Coaches and media, at different levels, along with recruits have talked about him and this staff.

I would be surprised if we didn't land a top 10-15 class in 2018 that includes a top tier (25), a few top 50, and a few more in the top 150. These assistant coaches, and Archie, have been around the block and have been successful coaches. I look for that to continue and IU's trajectory back into the conversation of elite in 5 years.

[waitingon6 167]

Who, in particular, is making these statements? It might be better to respond to the individual instead of some random post?

I think this coach and staff have the potential to make Indiana into a power again. I believe that because of the way he has conducted himself and the people he has chosen to be part of his staff. Coaches and media, at different levels, along with recruits have talked about him and this staff.

I would be surprised if we didn't land a top 10-15 class in 2018 that includes a top tier (25), a few top 50, and a few more in the top 150. These assistant coaches, and Archie, have been around the block and have been successful coaches. I look for that to continue and IU's trajectory back into the conversation of elite in 5 years.

Well put. Couldn't agree more! I've known Schilling for over 30 years. Nobody is going to outwork this staff.

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[BGleas 7,880]

On May 4, 2017 at 0:15 AM, BtownBanner6 said:

At least a few top 50's hot damn that's setting the bar high.

IU should have 2-3 (depending on class size) top 50ish kids in every class. 

[MikeRoberts 6,921]

Who, in particular, is making these statements? It might be better to respond to the individual instead of some random post?

I think this coach and staff have the potential to make Indiana into a power again. I believe that because of the way he has conducted himself and the people he has chosen to be part of his staff. Coaches and media, at different levels, along with recruits have talked about him and this staff.

I would be surprised if we didn't land a top 10-15 class in 2018 that includes a top tier (25), a few top 50, and a few more in the top 150. These assistant coaches, and Archie, have been around the block and have been successful coaches. I look for that to continue and IU's trajectory back into the conversation of elite in 5 years.

The comments are woven into numerous threads including this one, not random at all, read up and you will see banner6, V05 and others with this sentiment. There have been a lot, don't want to go through all the threads to find them all.


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[8bucks 6,352]

The comments are woven into numerous threads including this one, not random at all, read up and you will see banner6, V05 and others with this sentiment. There have been a lot, don't want to go through all the threads to find them all.


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I probably share some caution that right out of the gate Archie might not bring in a class full of top kids. Some of that may be time not spent previously recruiting the kids, some of that might be wise caution waiting to see how Archie's vision plays out at Indiana. So while we may not recruit great right away I do expect Archie will build a more consistent winner here.

I don't see the need to expect him to kill it on the recruiting trail right away.