TOM CREAN FIRED

[NOLA Hoosier 1,267]

The only question should be, "Do you believe coach Tom Crean can win a championship at Indiana"? If the answer is "No", or "I doubt it", or even, "I'm not sure", then you have to move on from him. 

 

100% agreed. I've defended him for the last time.

[Buck Naked 451]

I've read some interesting replys to my post and I have a couple of questions/replys: How do you teach not turning the ball over? What is the drill? As far as the inbounds plays, could it not be execution? Automatically the coaches fault that inbounds plays that probably worked with 2 NBA players last year won't work this year? How much patience should we have? I don't know. We waited 20 years for an out right B1G title, I can wait a few more. Sweet Sixteen loss to Syracuse? You do realize that the core of that team is one of only 2 undefeated teams left right? And a guy from The Movement can't sniff the floor.

[TomPritchard25 526]

Watch us lose to a couple Northwestern/Penn State/Nebraska's this year. Crean's cheeks might start getting a little toasty, if not from administration, IU fans as a whole. Not saying it would be right or wrong, just saying.

called it...

[JSHoosier 19,701]

I've read some interesting replys to my post and I have a couple of questions/replys:

 

How do you teach not turning the ball over? What is the drill? As far as the inbounds plays, could it not be execution? Automatically the coaches fault that inbounds plays that probably worked with 2 NBA players last year won't work this year?

 

How much patience should we have? I don't know. We waited 20 years for an out right B1G title, I can wait a few more.

 

Sweet Sixteen loss to Syracuse? You do realize that the core of that team is one of only 2 undefeated teams left right?

At the end of the day, Crean is the head coach and he is responsible.  Jeremy didn't get the inbounds pass in, Crean could've called a timeout just as easily as Jeremy did so you could say he's just as responsible

 

People say we have no shooters, well that means Crean went 3 years without recruiting one.  That is recruiting, it is 100% on Crean.  Although, we have players that were supposed to be able to shoot (Etherington, Hartman).  So it means he went 3 years without recruiting a player that fits his "I can't draw up a play to save my life so you have to create it yourself" street ball offense.  Which is again recruiting so 100% on Crean.  It's a poorly constructed team, recruiting is about more than getting kids to sign it's about building the team and so again that is 100% on Crean.

 

The offense consistently has 3 or 4 players standing around doing nothing but watching the ball handler.  Movement without the ball is basketball 101, you don't have to be talented or experienced to know how to do that and besides these players have been taught that their entire lives.  We're now in year 6 of seeing the same thing, which tells me the offensive scheme is to have multiple players standing around.  Which is again on Crean, it is his awful system in the first place.  We're in year 3 of not being able to feed the post and utilize a talented big, again it's a flaw of Crean's offensive system ('offensive' meant both ways).

 

He is the head coach, he is ultimately responsible for everything.  Saying "he's not turning it over" or "he's not missing the shots" is a short sighted cop out to avoid criticizing him.

[JSHoosier 19,701]

First off, welcome to the site. KILLER first post. You e set the bar high for your second post :)

Now to business, I'm curious what your thoughts would be on Kentucky then. They won the National Championship, unloaded their entire team and wound up in the NIT the following season. Is that bad coaching too? They had more talent than this Indiana team, but found the NIT after a championship.

I agree Crean has his issues, but youth of this team is a real thing. It's easy to get carried away with our team when we had guys start for 4 years in Hulls, Watford group.


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Kentucky's best player went down with an injury too.  If he's healthy they still make the tournament.

 

People want to say "if we're not in the same bracket as Syracuse we're in the Final Four" as a way to defend Crean, it works there too.

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again.  Youth is only part of the problem, this team is poorly coached and constructed (which is part of recruiting, so it's on Crean completely).

[Hovadipo 53,879]

[quote name="TomPritchard25" post="37983" timestamp="1392313330"]called it...[/quote]

Lol wow. Forgot about this post. Go ahead and call me Hovstradamus.


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[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

[quote name="Hovadipo" post="28465" timestamp="1389141364"]Watch us lose to a couple Northwestern/Penn State/Nebraska's this year. Crean's cheeks might start getting a little toasty, if not from administration, IU fans as a whole. Not saying it would be right or wrong, just saying.[/quote]

That is scary.... And we laughed at that less than a month ago


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[Hovadipo 53,879]

[quote name="All_Hoosiers" post="28472" timestamp="1389142427"]Something would be seriously wrong if we lost to Northwestern. That's really the only easy win right now.


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Haha this was the post after my genius proclamation.....


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[BsterDetty 7]

I figured our fans would be more knowlegeable and not so ignorant about something like this. People tend to look at the negatives and not the positives. Did you honestly expect much more this year with all of our new freshman and lack of expirence????? Crean brought this program back to a level the not anyone wouldve thought of. Not only that, he brought us back quicker than what we expected. Be happy with the team that we have and players that know what it means to wear "Indiana" across their chests. They're a young team that is being developed day by day from coach crean and his staff. Next year will be a different year with more expierence and even more talent.

[Buck Naked 451]

At the end of the day, Crean is the head coach and he is responsible.  Jeremy didn't get the inbounds pass in, Crean could've called a timeout just as easily as Jeremy did so you could say he's just as responsible

 

People say we have no shooters, well that means Crean went 3 years without recruiting one.  That is recruiting, it is 100% on Crean.  Although, we have players that were supposed to be able to shoot (Etherington, Hartman).  So it means he went 3 years without recruiting a player that fits his "I can't draw up a play to save my life so you have to create it yourself" street ball offense.  Which is again recruiting so 100% on Crean.  It's a poorly constructed team, recruiting is about more than getting kids to sign it's about building the team and so again that is 100% on Crean.

 

The offense consistently has 3 or 4 players standing around doing nothing but watching the ball handler.  Movement without the ball is basketball 101, you don't have to be talented or experienced to know how to do that and besides these players have been taught that their entire lives.  We're now in year 6 of seeing the same thing, which tells me the offensive scheme is to have multiple players standing around.  Which is again on Crean, it is his awful system in the first place.  We're in year 3 of not being able to feed the post and utilize a talented big, again it's a flaw of Crean's offensive system ('offensive' meant both ways).

 

He is the head coach, he is ultimately responsible for everything.  Saying "he's not turning it over" or "he's not missing the shots" is a short sighted cop out to avoid criticizing him.

Interesting points. Here is the thing, Crean did recruit shooters. Gary Harris for one I can thing of. Didn't get him. Is that Crean's fault? Because a kid would rather play at a marque school like Michigan St. than IU? Kids today don't think of IU as an elite program. IU is their safety school now and we all have to get use to it.

 

His offense is no different than 90% of the offenses in college basketball. It relies on the talent of the individual because all the "5 Star" kids everyone has to get want their talents developed for the NBA. The NBA is an iso game for the most part. Kids don't want to play motion because it doesn't show off their "skills". This offense worked good enough last year to win IU's first outright title in the B1G in 20 years. Yes I keep bringing that up because it is something that is won over a period of months, not 3 weekends in March. It is the marathon, not the sprint which I find impressive.

[Will_Padgman 194]

At the end of the day, Crean is the head coach and he is responsible.  Jeremy didn't get the inbounds pass in, Crean could've called a timeout just as easily as Jeremy did so you could say he's just as responsible

 

People say we have no shooters, well that means Crean went 3 years without recruiting one.  That is recruiting, it is 100% on Crean.  Although, we have players that were supposed to be able to shoot (Etherington, Hartman).  So it means he went 3 years without recruiting a player that fits his "I can't draw up a play to save my life so you have to create it yourself" street ball offense.  Which is again recruiting so 100% on Crean.  It's a poorly constructed team, recruiting is about more than getting kids to sign it's about building the team and so again that is 100% on Crean.

 

The offense consistently has 3 or 4 players standing around doing nothing but watching the ball handler.  Movement without the ball is basketball 101, you don't have to be talented or experienced to know how to do that and besides these players have been taught that their entire lives.  We're now in year 6 of seeing the same thing, which tells me the offensive scheme is to have multiple players standing around.  Which is again on Crean, it is his awful system in the first place.  We're in year 3 of not being able to feed the post and utilize a talented big, again it's a flaw of Crean's offensive system ('offensive' meant both ways).

 

He is the head coach, he is ultimately responsible for everything.  Saying "he's not turning it over" or "he's not missing the shots" is a short sighted cop out to avoid criticizing him.

I'm wondering your thoughts about something, JS...

 

You are putting everything on Crean in this post. While I agree he should share the blame, is it really his alone? 

 

He recruited Victor and Cody, did he not? They left before their 4 years were up. That was their decision, probably not Crean's. Is he to blame for them leaving?

 

And if so, what are your thoughts on his oversigning? I know lots of people tend to get frustrated with it because they say it drives some players away. But then, he could just be trying to prepare for the loss of some players leaving for the draft or transferring, i.e. Mo and Remy.

 

Where do you see his responsibility in all of this? Food for thought

[JSHoosier 19,701]

Interesting points. Here is the thing, Crean did recruit shooters. Gary Harris for one I can thing of. Didn't get him. Is that Crean's fault? Because a kid would rather play at a marque school like Michigan St. than IU? Kids today don't think of IU as an elite program. IU is their safety school now and we all have to get use to it.

 

His offense is no different than 90% of the offenses in college basketball. It relies on the talent of the individual because all the "5 Star" kids everyone has to get want their talents developed for the NBA. The NBA is an iso game for the most part. Kids don't want to play motion because it doesn't show off their "skills". This offense worked good enough last year to win IU's first outright title in the B1G in 20 years. Yes I keep bringing that up because it is something that is won over a period of months, not 3 weekends in March. It is the marathon, not the sprint which I find impressive.

He also took Remy Abell with the scholarship that should've been saved for Harris.  Yeah, that really worked out.  Oh, and Harris is shooting 32% from 3 and 41% from the field.  Those aren't that good for shooting numbers.

 

I've seen UK play, but their players move without the ball.  They feed the post.  Something Tom Crean's offense hasn't done in 6 and 3 years respectively.  Those things don't require talent.

 

March is when it matters most.  The B1G title is nice (even Mike Davis won one though), but it does get over shadowed when your team is lucky to even get to the Sweet 16.

[lgermain 0]

Yes I do think he should be replaced.

He has led them out of dark times. I agree withthat. And he did that well. However, that is all I think he is able to do.  Cody Zeller (who he recruited and that was a HUGE one) led them out as well.

 

Coaching

He gets out coached every time an adjustment has to be made. At halftime, other coaches make changes agaisnt IU and Crean does nothing to counter. Teams will change defense or make other adjustments, and he doesnt react.  And when losing, he doesnt make any! He makes it too easy for the other team.  You would like after the beating SU gave them last March with that 2-3 Zone, 7 months later, they threw the same zone at him and he had no answer!! I live in Syracuse and you can see all teams make adjustements on that zone! Not Crean though.

 

Inconsistency

You beat Michigan and Wisconsin at home. Then, lose to Nebraska, Northwestern and PENN STATE at home.  The team playing good on same days and then good on other days is a coaches problem to fix.  He is too soft on them. Yea, he yelled during the Wisconsin game, at the scorers table at the people keeping score and so the fans can see.  Not directly at a player(s).  Losing to those teams is an embarrasment.

 

Recruiting

He is ok here however other then Zeller, never gets the BIG one. Other school do. It was nice to see Blackmon recommiment though. They arent coming to IU and its hard not to blame them. Who wants to lose to Penn State and other crappy teams (at home).

 

Mystery

People are leaving there.  People are transferring ( Remy Abell, Creek, Luke Fischer) and people leaving Calbert Chaney.  Why? Not saying all Crean however it is a Mystery.

 

He did a great job of getting the ship on course. Not doubt. However he is not the guy to take IU to where people are use to seeing them. If winning a game, I am sure the opposite coach will make a haltime adjustment.  The PSU game was great example of that.  He gets our coached too much and never really out coaches any one else.

 

[JSHoosier 19,701]

I'm wondering your thoughts about something, JS...

 

You are putting everything on Crean in this post. While I agree he should share the blame, is it really his alone? 

 

He recruited Victor and Cody, did he not? They left before their 4 years were up. That was their decision, probably not Crean's. Is he to blame for them leaving?

 

And if so, what are your thoughts on his oversigning? I know lots of people tend to get frustrated with it because they say it drives some players away. But then, he could just be trying to prepare for the loss of some players leaving for the draft or transferring, i.e. Mo and Remy.

 

Where do you see his responsibility in all of this? Food for thought

It sounds like I'm putting everything on Crean, but really I'm okay with placing some blame on players.  I will not excuse Crean for certain things though, like once again having Evan Gordon in the game with the game on the line.  As I said, at the end of the day though he is the coach and ultimately responsible.

 

I guarantee you Vic and Cody talked with Crean at the end of the season.  Vic was ready to go, he should've gone.  Cody wasn't ready, and Crean said he wants players to be "NBA ready not just draftable".  If he told Cody he was ready, he told him wrong.  So yes, that would be on Crean at least partially.

 

I utterly despise the oversign.  I think it only causes problems.  Most teams don't run 13 players deep and it's not unusual for certain programs to not have all 13 scholarships taken up.  If I had my way about it the B1G would completely do away with the stupid thing.

[Buck Naked 451]

He also took Remy Abell with the scholarship that should've been saved for Harris.  Yeah, that really worked out.

 

I've seen UK play, but their players move without the ball.  They feed the post.  Something Tom Crean's offense hasn't done in 6 and 3 years respectively.  Those things don't require talent.

 

March is when it matters most.  The B1G title is nice (even Mike Davis won one though), but it does get over shadowed when your team is lucky to even get to the Sweet 16.

 

Agree to disagree. For the record, I am not a complete Crean apologist, just don't think we can fire him now or blame him for every hiccup.

 

Harris wasn't coming to IU.

 

And call me stupid, but I value a OUTRIGHT B1G title almost as much as a national championship. NCAA titles are crapshoots. Its all matchups, injuries, turn around time and seedings. Things all out of a teams control. A league title is won over a period of months. You play teams that know you. You can't trick them. Gimmicks won't work against them. Much harder to accomplish in my opinion.

 

While we are on Davis, it kind of proves my point. He won a tied (not OUTRIGHT) with " Knight's players", or so I'm told by folk on this board. When he was the main recruiter of talent, nothing. Kind of proves my point of talent and coaching.

[Buck Naked 451]

Recruiting

He is ok here however other then Zeller, never gets the BIG one. Other school do. It was nice to see Blackmon recommiment though. They arent coming to IU and its hard not to blame them. Who wants to lose to Penn State and other crappy teams (at home).

 

Mystery

People are leaving there.  People are transferring ( Remy Abell, Creek, Luke Fischer) and people leaving Calbert Chaney.  Why? Not saying all Crean however it is a Mystery.

 

He did a great job of getting the ship on course. Not doubt. However he is not the guy to take IU to where people are use to seeing them. If winning a game, I am sure the opposite coach will make a haltime adjustment.  The PSU game was great example of that.  He gets our coached too much and never really out coaches any one else.

 

Once again, Iu is not marquee anymore. IU will continue to lose players to the likes of Mich. St., Duke, UK and others for a while still. Unless we cheat and I HOPE no one wants that.

 

Players leave schools all the time. People transfer from Evansville for more playing time. Nothing to see here.

[JSHoosier 19,701]

Agree to disagree. For the record, I am not a complete Crean apologist, just don't think we can fire him now or blame him for every hiccup.

 

Harris wasn't coming to IU.

 

And call me stupid, but I value a OUTRIGHT B1G title almost as much as a national championship. NCAA titles are crapshoots. Its all matchups, injuries, turn around time and seedings. Things all out of a teams control. A league title is won over a period of months. You play teams that know you. You can't trick them. Gimmicks won't work against them. Much harder to accomplish in my opinion.

 

While we are on Davis, it kind of proves my point. He won a tied (not OUTRIGHT) with " Knight's players", or so I'm told by folk on this board. When he was the main recruiter of talent, nothing. Kind of proves my point of talent and coaching.

Did I say fire him?  No.  I have said, and still feel though that if he is going to take us where we should expect to be he has to improve as a coach.  Improve a lot.  Right now, he's a better spoken Mike Davis.

 

He cannot be overlooked for culpability though just because the players turn it over and miss shots.  His job is to put them in the best position to succeed, and we can't really say he's doing that IMO.  This will also be 3 of the last 4 teams that have underachieved.

[KingPG21 6,559]

I figured our fans would be more knowlegeable and not so ignorant about something like this. People tend to look at the negatives and not the positives. Did you honestly expect much more this year with all of our new freshman and lack of expirence????? Crean brought this program back to a level the not anyone wouldve thought of. Not only that, he brought us back quicker than what we expected. Be happy with the team that we have and players that know what it means to wear "Indiana" across their chests. They're a young team that is being developed day by day from coach crean and his staff. Next year will be a different year with more expierence and even more talent.

I haven't seen anything in the lines of growth with this team to indicate that next year is going to be much better. They still turn the ball over at an alarming rate, could argue they are worse at this now than what we saw at the outset of the season. The half-court offense is absolutely putrid on a nightly basis, some of this is philosophy by Crean and what he is teaching them. The other half comes from the players, and their lack of development has hurt. The defense has improved so there is that. Even if Noah comes back I don't see how things are just going to magically turn the corner, there haven't been many signs, or really any consistent signs, that this roster has shown growth to say they will be significantly better next season. 

[HoosierfaninGatorland 1]

I have been an IU fan for over 45 yrs. and I have never seen an IU team that is so fundamentally flawed.  Even the Davis coached teams could execute basic in bounds plays.   IMO Coach Crean has done what he was brought here to do and that was to revive a proud program that was in ruins.  I give him a lot of credit because he brought exactly what was needed at that time...lots of energy, enthusiasm, a sincere appreciation of the tradition of IU bball and the ability to connect to and recruit Hoosier bred talent.   We finally made it back and now the challenges and expectations are different.  IU fans expect to see a talented team that is fundamentally sound and can legitimately challenge for Championships on an annual basis.  I believe that in order to meet those challenges and expectations a new coach is needed.  Coach Crean is a great recruiter and motivator but he is less than average when it comes to coaching the Xs and Os and making strategic decisions during the game.  Will Sheehey should be sitting so far down the bench that the only minutes he plays are in garbage time, but we all know that isn't going to happen.  This team is very young and that excuse could have been used the first 10 games of the season but that dog won't hunt now.  The mistakes ie; TOs and lack of execution is on the coaches...the buck stops there.  I don't know whether he will get fired after this year, probably not, but the hand writing is plain to see.  A change is needed in Bloomington if there are going to be any more NC banners hung from Assembly Hall.

[Buck Naked 451]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="38015" timestamp="1392315995"]Did I say fire him? No. I have said, and still feel though that if he is going to take us where we should expect to be he has to improve as a coach. Improve a lot. Right now, he's a better spoken Mike Davis. He cannot be overlooked for culpability though just because the players turn it over and miss shots. His job is to put them in the best position to succeed, and we can't really say he's doing that IMO. This will also be 3 of the last 4 teams that have underachieved.[/quote] Understood. He is at fault some. I just can't say this team, or last years team underachieved. This years team isn't talented enough. A Bob Knight/Brad Stevens love child couldn't win with these guys. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners