Indiana vs Northwestern Game Thread (Oct. 22 - 12:00PM - BTN)

[akhosrof 1,168]

My personal choice would be Cameron, I prefer drop back passers and he seemed to be a better passer than Diamont the little we saw.  I'm not thrilled with any of the alternatives though.  The best thing for Diamont is a redshirt, and King etc could use a redshirt.

I'm not a big hopes and dreams guy, nor have I ever been a big believer in the positive thinking stuff.  If you're costing the team wins, and he has, than you shouldn't be on the field.

 

I agree with your point but just as an FYI Cameron is not a drop back passer. He played DB in high school, he's a pretty athletic kid. He didn't become a full time QB until his senior year. If Cameron is the starter, we'd have to call a lot more roll outs and moved pockets. Cameron does well throwing on the run and has a quick release. He's only 6'1", so seeing over the line on traditional drop back could be a problem (remember we saw this from Cameron during the PSU game and he had some struggles. It was unrealistic to have a game plan ready to fit his strengths mid-game, but hopefully CKW could do so with a week's worth of practice with Cameron as the starter.)

Nonetheless your point remains, I'm leaning toward Cameron as well. I think he has enough arm strength. Most importantly, he has a high football IQ. General football awareness is an area Lagow is lacking which has hurt us.

[Josh 12,647]

Cameron has less experience and worse results than Zander. If we're starting a new qb in the middle of Big Ten season, give me the guy who has seen snaps thus year, the guy who has experience.

[Alford Bailey 12,386]

Goes back to what I said all summer. We were sink or swim with an incoming juco QB new to the program. Not a good plan. Not surprised by the results.

[akhosrof 1,168]

Goes back to what I said all summer. We were sink or swim with an incoming juco QB new to the program. Not a good plan. Not surprised by the results.

So what's the alternative? We looked at Chad Voytik, grad transfer from Pittsburgh, but he can't even start for Arkansas State.

You know the kid we faced this weekend, Clayton Thorson, was a top target of ours for the 2014 class? Damn good QB, arguably the best in the B1G and a for sure NFL prospect. 2014 wasn't just a disaster because we lost Tre and Coffman, we also lost Seth Litrell. Dismissed as a factor by most IU fans, Litrell was the reason Sudfeld attended IU and was our lead recruiter for Thorson and the few other top QB targets for the 2014 class. Zander as a result was our only QB recruit for the 2014. I believe Litrell is destined to be a P5 head coach some day.

2014 was a lost year for more than one reason. You don't recover from that in one or even two years. 2015 we were a finalist for Chad Kelly, he liked us but didn't want to compete with Sudfeld. We also thought we had Tommy Stevens. Luckily, CKW was able to flip King on signing day from NC State. I like King better than Stevens anyways.

2016 class we put a lot of time into recruiting Brandon Peters. What QB recruit in his right mind would turn down an offer from Harbaugh? Peyton Ramsey is a smart kid who played against top competition in Ohio. There are high hopes for him.

Bottom line, QBs take time to develop. The problems we have today stem back to 2014. Whether or not we fixed that problem will depend on the development of King and Ramsey going into next season. We also need to get a quality QB recruit for 2017. Heck, even Lagow has a lot of room for improvement with a full offseason with the program. CKW and Johns will have plenty of time to work on his flawed mechanics which lead to inaccuracy (specifically, lower body movement. Lagow is currently a thrower and not a passer).

[colonel06 1,917]

CKW will have to win a few more games, 2 at least in order to be here next year to be able to work on those QB flaws and mechanics in my opinion.


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[hsrtxp 1,400]

CKW will have to win a few more games, 2 at least in order to be here next year to be able to work on those QB flaws and mechanics in my opinion.


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So you're advocating firing CKW if they don't win 2 more games this season?


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[colonel06 1,917]

Not advocating it I just think the bar is set higher and the pressure to win this year is paramount even though the trend line is trending upward.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 48,393]

I say CKW will be back next season no matter how this season ends. Bank it.


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[hsrtxp 1,400]

Not advocating it I just think the bar is set higher and the pressure to win this year is paramount even though the trend line is trending upward.


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I agree that the bar is set higher but I think CKW has done that by expecting more. No way I would want to see him move on at this point. Even if they don't win two more this year I can't imagine a situation where he wouldn't be here next year. That being said, I think they win two more.

Now at some point he will have to them past squeaking into bowl games but that's not now IMO.


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[akhosrof 1,168]

Not advocating it I just think the bar is set higher and the pressure to win this year is paramount even though the trend line is trending upward.


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Unless you have boosters lined up to pay Les Miles big money firing CKW makes absolutely ZERO sense. What P5 coordinator or MAC/C-USA head coach is going to do a better job?

[TheWatShot 14,013]

16 minutes ago, colonel06 said:

CKW will have to win a few more games, 2 at least in order to be here next year to be able to work on those QB flaws and mechanics in my opinion.


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We've been to 2 bowl games in the last 20 years, and he got us to one of them. Not to mention, we finally have a defense that's not completely terrible. He's not getting fired. 

[lucel15 3,052]

CKW will have to win a few more games, 2 at least in order to be here next year to be able to work on those QB flaws and mechanics in my opinion.


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He just signed an extension. Recruiting is up.... He got tom Allen here over auburn.... There's nobody out there that IU would buyout Wilson for let alone go after... I don't want Les either. Wilson is here for another 3-4 years at least. His contract is til 2021. Glass likes him. I'm all for a dedicated QB coach or something along those lines. I like johns as a WR coach, but I think a new QB coach or solely OC would help. Johns title is OC but from my understanding Wilson has last say on calls.


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[akhosrof 1,168]

He just signed an extension. Recruiting is up.... He got tom Allen here over auburn.... There's nobody out there that IU would buyout Wilson for let alone go after... I don't want Les either. Wilson is here for another 3-4 years at least. His contract is til 2021. Glass likes him. I'm all for a dedicated QB coach or something along those lines. I like johns as a WR coach, but I think a new QB coach or solely OC would help. Johns title is OC but from my understanding Wilson has last say on calls.

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Hmmm interesting point on the offensive coach. I know this past offseason CKW decided to help out the offense so we can have the extra assistant on defense. I am not familiar with what the assistant coach limits are.

Regardless, here's a thought: what about bringing back Cam Cameron to be a QB coach/offensive quality control? He's already getting guaranteed money from LSU after being fired so we'd only be responsible for a smaller offset amount, I believe. Maybe he's interested in coaching his son.

[KB0 827]

I think you start with Zander and see how it goes. At least be more willing to switch between the two QBs, as frustrating as that can be at times.

Lagow was short on every single deep route and was high on every single out route. His footwork is off and it looks like he may be having some issues learning the entire playbook. At least, based on the play calling I've seen. 

This weekend is another winnable game. Can't afford to fall behind early again and try to play catch up. Roll with Zander early and see how the offense responds. 

[lucel15 3,052]

I think you start with Zander and see how it goes. At least be more willing to switch between the two QBs, as frustrating as that can be at times.

Lagow was short on every single deep route and was high on every single out route. His footwork is off and it looks like he may be having some issues learning the entire playbook. At least, based on the play calling I've seen. 

This weekend is another winnable game. Can't afford to fall behind early again and try to play catch up. Roll with Zander early and see how the offense responds. 

To piggy back off of this. Like I've said before I know I have defended Lagow on a regular basis, but the northwestern game looked as if he had no confidence in his arm. He had no touch and looked rushed on every throw. To diamont.... I loved the hype he brought to the field against Nebraska and honestly I want to see him get the start this weekend. Sit Lagow give him a reality check. I'm not saying keep Diamont in....if he struggles then put Lagow in and maybe that gives him the fire under his butt, but this offense needs some fire and I think diamont brings that.


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[akhosrof 1,168]

Yes what good is a strong arm if you're under-throwing every deep ball? We certainly have the speed at WR to run under balls.

I would rather see Cameron as the starter. I don't think it is a coincidence Cameron and Diamont are listed as joint backups on the depth chart each week. If Diamont was the overall better QB he'd be the backup straight up. But they are listed as the joint backup because Zander has situational packages.

Makes me believe that if CKW was to make a full time change, Cameron would be the starter, Zander would stay the backup to come in for his packages, and Lagow would drop to third string.

As far as making a change: last year was a successful season because we had the B1G's best turnover differential. That hasn't been the story this season. We cannot afford to have our QB throwing INTs at the current rate. So whether it's Zander or Cameron, we need our QB to take care of the ball.

[lucel15 3,052]

Yes what good is a strong arm if you're under-throwing every deep ball? We certainly have the speed at WR to run under balls.

I would rather see Cameron as the starter. I don't think it is a coincidence Cameron and Diamont are listed as joint backups on the depth chart each week. If Diamont was the overall better QB he'd be the backup straight up. But they are listed as the joint backup because Zander has situational packages.

Makes me believe that if CKW was to make a full time change, Cameron would be the starter, Zander would stay the backup to come in for his packages, and Lagow would drop to third string.



As far as making a change: last year was a successful season because we had the B1G's best turnover differential. That hasn't been the story this season. We cannot afford to have our QB throwing INTs at the current rate. So whether it's Zander or Cameron, we need our QB to take care of the ball.

Like this minus zander was listed as sole #2 last week and Cameron third string. Also it looked as if Zander would start second half at NW but then we saw Lagow.


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[akhosrof 1,168]

[lucel15 3,052]

Ugh


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[Alford Bailey 12,386]

No other choice. CKW put himself in this situation. Going with Zander would be pure desperation.