I'm worried about in-state recruiting.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

47 minutes ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

I like Chuck Martin, but he or someone on the staff NEEDS to figure out how to land the 2017/2018 Indiana HS recruits. 2017 has to be one of the better classes to come out of the state in a long time, at least on the top end, and it seems IU has already completely missed the boat on Bowen and Jackson. They simply cannot afford to let guys like Wilkes, Scruggs, and Langford, go somewhere else. To me, that would send a horrible message to the next few classes. 

I think the IU staff NEEEDS to recruit the right players for our program, as they seem to have done well with the last two recruiting classes. I will never understand the burning desire to focus so much time and money on a narrow batch of players when we can find the right players from anywhere around the country. If the right player is in-state, go after them hard! If we win, that's great for everyone; hometown kid playing for the Hoosiers! If we lose, oh well, good thing we're recruiting all around the country as well.

We have to invest in relationships in other areas of the country as much as we do in-state to hedge against years when local talent may be down, or when the players don't fit our needs. The benefit of having strong local talent consistently developed in Indiana is that when we perform at a consistently high level, it is more likely that the recruit is already an IU lean.

[Brass Cannon 24,801]

Just remember guys OG was an out of state 3 star. The right player is more important than a guy just because he's from Indiana 

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

When did Bowen and Jackson become instate guys? Isn't Bowen from Michigan and Jackson from the east coast with ties to UA? I can understand players like Wilkes, Scruggs, Williams, and Langford but not the others. Regardless, times and programs have changed.

I would be perfectly happy to land a few of the top instate players in each class and then fill needs from other areas of the country. I would hate to miss on players like TB, JMo, OG, Vic, Sheehey and others because we wanted a player from Indiana.

[hsrtxp 1,400]

I think the IU staff NEEEDS to recruit the right players for our program, as they seem to have done well with the last two recruiting classes. I will never understand the burning desire to focus so much time and money on a narrow batch of players when we can find the right players from anywhere around the country. If the right player is in-state, go after them hard! If we win, that's great for everyone; hometown kid playing for the Hoosiers! If we lose, oh well, good thing we're recruiting all around the country as well.

We have to invest in relationships in other areas of the country as much as we do in-state to hedge against years when local talent may be down, or when the players don't fit our needs. The benefit of having strong local talent consistently developed in Indiana is that when we perform at a consistently high level, it is more likely that the recruit is already an IU lean.

I think the burning desire comes from Hoosier pride so to speak. By that I mean, I want the kids from Indiana to want to go to IU because it's their destination school and I don't like IU getting scooped by other schools, pUKe, etc.

Logically, I know at the end of the day, it's most important to get good kids who fit the program and understand what it means to represent the state, regardless of where they are from.

Sometimes logic and pride don't jive.


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[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

7 minutes ago, hsrtxp said:

I think the burning desire comes from Hoosier pride so to speak. By that I mean, I want the kids from Indiana to want to go to IU because it's their destination school and I don't like IU getting scooped by other schools, pUKe, etc.

Logically, I know at the end of the day, it's most important to get good kids who fit the program and understand what it means to represent the state, regardless of where they are from.

Sometimes logic and pride don't jive.


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Get that for sure, and it's good you can admit that. I think, as you've pointed out, pride almost always is a negative and blinding force. Better to keep it out of recruiting, in my opinion.

As a fan base, we over-analyze recruiting, probably because there's nothing else to talk about when recruiting is peaking. End of the day, our main concern should be how we perform with the pieces we have, and not where those pieces came from. Another B1G Championship, and at least another Sweet Sixteen will only enforce that our recruiting is not a problem. Some may point to Duke and UK, but as others have said, the intentions of the players those teams are recruiting don't align with what our staff values in a player. Hence, like it or not, an player like Langford, despite being an extreme talent and in-state, probably won't end up at Indiana. I personally don't see that as a problem, as long as we're competing with a different strategy.

[Stuhoo 80,781]

In-state recruits present an inherent advantage for IU: those kids can have their family and friends at games.

Otherwise:

• Character,
• Athleticism,
• Shooting ability, and
• Work ethic...

Those are the qualities I'm looking for, and I don't care if we get them from a kid in Indianapolis or Timbuktu.

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

I encourage people to do some research to find out how high school coaches in the state feel about Indiana and Crean as opposed to Painter or Holtmann. There are several articles floating around about how the connection isn't there and Crean hasn't developed the relationships.. 

When you have names like Hummel, Teague, Robinson, Harris, Dawson, Lyles, Blueitt, Swainigan, J Johnson, D Thomas, Guy, Irvin, (I could keep going) being recruited in the state where you should be dominating recruiting, and try to tell me that those aren't the "right players," I'm wondering what folks mean by that phrase. The "right player." 

The fact is, Indiana hasn't been able to land the top players from the state with any consistency over the last decade. If a guy is playing high school basketball in the state of Indiana, and perhaps from the state of Indiana, and is one of the top 50 players in the country coming out of high school, and the kid works hard, plays basketball at a high level, and is a good kid, why would you not put a large portion of your resources into that? And if those dominoes start to fall, then you've got a residual well to drink from (so-to-speak). You can't rely on Boo Williams to supply you with all of your recruits year after year.

 

[Stuhoo 80,781]

47 minutes ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

I encourage people to do some research to find out how high school coaches in the state feel about Indiana and Crean as opposed to Painter or Holtmann. There are several articles floating around about how the connection isn't there and Crean hasn't developed the relationships.. 

When you have names like Hummel, Teague, Robinson, Harris, Dawson, Lyles, Blueitt, Swainigan, J Johnson, D Thomas, Guy, Irvin, (I could keep going) being recruited in the state where you should be dominating recruiting, and try to tell me that those aren't the "right players," I'm wondering what folks mean by that phrase. The "right player." 

The fact is, Indiana hasn't been able to land the top players from the state with any consistency over the last decade. If a guy is playing high school basketball in the state of Indiana, and perhaps from the state of Indiana, and is one of the top 50 players in the country coming out of high school, and the kid works hard, plays basketball at a high level, and is a good kid, why would you not put a large portion of your resources into that? And if those dominoes start to fall, then you've got a residual well to drink from (so-to-speak). You can't rely on Boo Williams to supply you with all of your recruits year after year.

 

Sorry to call you out a bit, Baltimore, but much of what you posted above is absolute nonsense. Your list of who Crean Coulda/shoulda gotten but didn't?

• Hummell? Committed to Purdue two years before Crean was at IU.
• Dawson? Arrested this year for felony domestic assault. Punched Travis Carroll in a MSU/PU game. Good player, but not a good guy, to say the least.
• Teague? Never should have been a "student-athlete".
• Lyles? Puhlease, we've been through that one with Papa Tom Lyles and the de-commit many times over.
• Swanigan? His adopted father is a pro player agent, and a Purdue grad. Really?
• DeShaun Thomas? ONCE AGAIN as Inside The Hall quoted "committed to OSU long before Tom Crean arrived at IU."
• JuJuan Johnson? FOR A THIRD TIME!! Committed to Purdue about two years before Tom Crean arrived at IU.
• Blueitt? Nice player...by all accounts, him and Yogi were never going to go to the same school.
• Robinson? The son of Purdue's all-time great, and UM committ Mitch "Cheech and Chong McGary's" bestest buddy?

That leaves Gary Harris and Zak Irvin; I'd throw Kellen Dunham in there too; we would have had a good shot at Dunham, though him and Irvin are far from 5 star program changers.

You sir, have mastered the art of the straw-man argument with your post.

Good day, sir.

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

7 minutes ago, Stuhoo said:

Sorry to call you out a bit, Baltimore, but much of what you posted above is absolute nonsense. Your list of who Crean Coulda/shoulda gotten but didn't?

• Hummell? Committed to Purdue two years before Crean was at IU.
• Dawson? Arrested this year for felony domestic assault. Punched Travis Carroll in a MSU/PU game. Good player, but not a good guy, to say the least.
• Teague? Never should have been a "student-athlete".
• Lyles? Puhlease, we've been through that one with Papa Tom Lyles and the de-commit many times over.
• Swanigan? His adopted father is a pro player agent, and a Purdue grad. Really?
• DeShaun Thomas? ONCE AGAIN as Inside The Hall quoted "committed to OSU long before Tom Crean arrived at IU."
• JuJuan Johnson? FOR A THIRD TIME!! Committed to Purdue about two years before Tom Crean arrived at IU.
• Blueitt? Nice player...by all accounts, him and Yogi were never going to go to the same school.
• Robinson? The son of Purdue's all-time great, and UM committ Mitch "Cheech and Chong McGary's" bestest buddy?

That leaves Gary Harris and Zak Irvin; I'd throw Kellen Dunham in there too; we would have had a good shot at Dunham, though him and Irvin are far from 5 star program changers.

You sir, have mastered the art of the straw-man argument with your post.

Good day, sir.

Good try.. I said INDIANA has failed to do anything about recruiting in-state talent over the last 10 years. It's bigger than Crean. Before you waste your time with bold print and underlining sentences that include snarky comments, you may want actually read the post. 

So let's see.. Most of YOUR points are invalid. I'll also point out that you mention Teague, and Blueitt and use your opinion on why they may or may not have been IU caliber as if it were fact.  ONCE AGAIN. Bahaha.

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

24 minutes ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

I encourage people to do some research to find out how high school coaches in the state feel about Indiana and Crean as opposed to Painter or Holtmann. There are several articles floating around about how the connection isn't there and Crean hasn't developed the relationships.. 

When you have names like Hummel, Teague, Robinson, Harris, Dawson, Lyles, Blueitt, Swainigan, J Johnson, D Thomas, Guy, Irvin, (I could keep going) being recruited in the state where you should be dominating recruiting, and try to tell me that those aren't the "right players," I'm wondering what folks mean by that phrase. The "right player." 

The fact is, Indiana hasn't been able to land the top players from the state with any consistency over the last decade. If a guy is playing high school basketball in the state of Indiana, and perhaps from the state of Indiana, and is one of the top 50 players in the country coming out of high school, and the kid works hard, plays basketball at a high level, and is a good kid, why would you not put a large portion of your resources into that? And if those dominoes start to fall, then you've got a residual well to drink from (so-to-speak). You can't rely on Boo Williams to supply you with all of your recruits year after year.

 

I agree on some of your points but don't feel as strongly as you do on others.

Yes, Crean probably doesn't have a great relationship with Indiana high school coaches like Painter and Holtmann.  What have Painter and Holtmann achieved that Crean has not?  Do those two have relationships with others in different regions that provide players when the state is down?  Those two have great relationships that have yielded how many top players from the state?  If IU focuses on just Indiana and there is a down year instate what do they do?  If one class is position heavy from the state do we just take all of them and have an unbalanced roster again? 

Hummel and J Johnson committed to pu before Crean was at IU.  Swan wasn't the "right player" in an uptempo system like Crean prefers to run.  He's lost a ton of weight but he's not the athletic transition player like Williams or OG nor is he the trail shooter of a CWat.  He might be able to play the 5 in Crean's system but he (his handler) didn't want to play the 5.

D Thomas, Conley, and Oden went to O$U because of "connections."  They weren't coming to IU because of the situation IU was in, not being recruited.

Teague and Lyles, wasn't Lyles' daddy looking for a job or handout?  We had him until other things came into play.

Dawson, no thanks.  I don't think that would have been a good situation.

I would have loved to have had Robinson, Irvin, Bluiett, HARRIS!, and Guy but it didn't happen.  However, Crean has landed some solid instate players in Hulls, Zeller, Yogi, and JBJ.  The 2012 class where IU landed 3 of the top 5 instate players (Hanner at LaLu, not really instate) almost got Crean fired and set the program back.  As others have said it's about the right players not about the players closest to the university.

How is Indiana relying on Boo Williams year after year?  IU has landed Troy, RoJo, and CuJo from Boo, that's not dominating IU recruiting.  IU has landed more instate players than from Boo, ditto for the Northeast.  These days you need connections to several different regions.  Again, I would hate for IU to lose players like TB, JMo, and OG because we were focusing on players from Indiana like Swan, KJ Walton, Ryan Cline, etc.

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

The point is, Indiana University, the school synonymous with college hoops, multiple National Championships, and the largest budget (I'm guessing), should be better at recruiting the state of Indiana.

[mdn82 25,510]

Good try.. I said INDIANA has failed to do anything about recruiting in-state talent over the last 10 years. It's bigger than Crean. Before you waste your time with bold print and underlining sentences that include snarky comments, you may want actually read the post. 

So let's see.. Most of YOUR points are invalid. I'll also point out that you mention Teague, and Blueitt and use your opinion on why they may or may not have been IU caliber as if it were fact.  ONCE AGAIN. Bahaha.

It's been that way closer to 25 years not 10. Jason Gardner, Zac Randolph, Montross, May etc. if we can blanket the subject.

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[Stuhoo 80,781]

 

42 minutes ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

Good try.. I said INDIANA has failed to do anything about recruiting Indiana over the last 10 years. It's bigger than Crean. 

 

Bullshirt.  

You prefaced and outlined your entire rant by starting with:  

"I encourage people to do some research to find out how high school coaches in the state feel about Indiana and Crean as opposed to Painter or Holtmann. There are several articles floating around about how the connection isn't there and Crean hasn't developed the relationships.. "

So, If  I started a post with "I encourage people to do some research to find out why people don't like Btown Banners poster Baltimore Hoosier. (And then immediately followed with) "Unlike Peegs and the 247 guys, Btown Banners has had real problems with lying, cheating posters that pull facts out of their backside." that'd be okay by you because the disparaging remarks in the second line were about Btown Banners and not you specifically?

I'm glad you'd be okay with that.

(and... you're damn straight it was a good try; it was a good try that should encourage you to cut the crap).

 

 

[mdn82 25,510]

Bullshirt lol


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[Stuhoo 80,781]

5 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

It's been that way closer to 25 years not 10. Jason Gardner, Zac Randolph, Montross, May etc. if we can blanket the subject.

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Why stop there! We also didn't get John Wooden, Rick Mount, Frank Kendrick, Joe Barry Carroll, James Blackmon Sr...

Well shucks, looks like ole Branch McCracken and Bob Knight couldn't lock down Indiana!

[Stuhoo 80,781]

2 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Bullshirt lol


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Only the finest in bovine haberdashery for our friend Baltimore.

[hsrtxp 1,400]

Wow. Miss a few minutes and things really take a turn.


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[Stuhoo 80,781]

2 minutes ago, hsrtxp said:

Wow. Miss a few minutes and things really take a turn.


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I feel better now.

Too much caffeine for Stuhoo?

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

34 minutes ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

The point is, Indiana University, the school synonymous with college hoops, multiple National Championships, and the largest budget (I'm guessing), should be better at recruiting the state of Indiana.

Probably an incorrect assumption, based on this 5-year data from 2013, but nice try!

http://db.desmoinesregister.com/college-basketball-recruiting

 

Fact checking is incredibly easy if you can spare 10 extra seconds and access Google :)

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,370]

Lets stay on topic and stay off the personal stuff here guys. We are capable.


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