I want Tom Crean to stay

[323SGrant 1,176]

CTC may have been a decent Assistant Coach at MSU (or not, I don't know), but he's proven that he is an average Head Coach over a fifteen year period.

[KingPG21 6,584]

Results are a wholly separate conversation. But the lifeblood of the program is recruiting and no one will work harder at it for IU than Crean. That's clear. IU doesn't sell itself anymore. If it did, we wouldn't be in this position.

This is the second statement about recruiting in the last two days that just blows my mind. Do you really believe a new head coach wouldn't work as hard as Crean on recruiting. This and the dude yesterday saying that Marshall and Miller wouldn't even get a visit with Maker or Bryant are baffling. They just seem like pro-Crean arguments that have no basis

[TrueHoosier62 1,593]

Looks like a pretty good move for them right now.....

Touché. lol

[PointBlank 116]

Not comparing anyone.

IU has become a destination for players hungry to improve (similar to MSU's culture--which Crean helped build) thanks to Tom Crean. Not because it's IU. Not because of Cody Zeller. Not because of Cook Hall. Because of Tom Crean and his staff.

Why wasn't IU a destination for all of those years? What changed? A respected coach came in.

Results are a wholly separate conversation. But the lifeblood of the program is recruiting and no one will work harder at it for IU than Crean. That's clear. IU doesn't sell itself anymore. If it did, we wouldn't be in this position.

The hallmarks of IU's program during RMK's heydey... It just doesn't fly today. IU has to decide what it wants. I think most here want to win more than they want to watch the Indiana of old. But there's definitely a huge generational gap thing going on at this program.

 

If IU has become a destination for the players, why have so many transferred out to other destinations?

[HoosierPT 121]

This is the second statement about recruiting in the last two days that just blows my mind. Do you really believe a new head coach wouldn't work as hard as Crean on recruiting. This and the dude yesterday saying that Marshall and Miller wouldn't even get a visit with Maker or Bryant are baffling. They just seem like pro-Crean arguments that have no basis

 

No. I don't believe there is a coach that would "outwork" Crean. Dude is relentless.

 

Marshall and Miller would NOT get a visit from Bryant or Maker. They are Crean's recruits through and through. I'm not saying those guys couldn't learn on the job and develop those connections or hire an assistant to help, but is that what you wanted? A HC to learn on the job??

 

How many of the undecided McDonald's All Americans are considering Wichita State or Dayton??

[PointBlank 116]

No. I don't believe there is a coach that would "outwork" Crean. Dude is relentless.

 

Marshall and Miller would NOT get a visit from Bryant or Maker. They are Crean's recruits through and through. I'm not saying those guys couldn't learn on the job and develop those connections or hire an assistant to help, but is that what you wanted? A HC to learn on the job??

 

How many of the undecided McDonald's All Americans are considering Wichita State or Dayton??

 

Archie Miller has successful experience in recruiting five star players while coaching at a place called Arizona. The assistant coaches from the elite programs do not throw out their connections once they become a head coach at a lesser program. They have to be realistic and pursue the players they feel they can deliver to their current program since they do not have the resources the larger programs have at their disposal. Archie would be a force on the recruiting trail for a larger program. Also, almost every five star player desires to play for the larger programs, it's a cred thing. As Sean Miller and Thad Matta have proven, coaches from the smaller programs who accept a head coaching gig with a premiere program can recruit successfully with the other larger programs.

[mdn82 25,510]

Until the know-it-all fans ran him out of town because he wasn't good enough for them anymore.

Lol apparently the know it all fans were fans of those 23-12 type seasons in Kentucky. Not sure why that is.

[mdn82 25,510]

This is the second statement about recruiting in the last two days that just blows my mind. Do you really believe a new head coach wouldn't work as hard as Crean on recruiting. This and the dude yesterday saying that Marshall and Miller wouldn't even get a visit with Maker or Bryant are baffling. They just seem like pro-Crean arguments that have no basis

If IU doesn't sell itself like he said I thought that is why we built things like Cook Hall? Next coach will have the same toys Crean has.

[redherring 42]

If IU has become a destination for the players, why have so many transferred out to other destinations?

The majority have left because they can realistically see their playing time is not going to be what they want. It's a highly competitive program atmosphere. I don't think many realize that not everyone of these coaches are into development like Crean. Indiana is getting after it on skill. They are teaching skill. Probably the biggest cause of the bad basketball in college right now. Too many teams just roll the balls out and rely on individual talents.

Luke got homesick, and apparently didn't have the heart to stick up for himself.

Mostly, guys want more opportunity too early. I loved Max's potential, but he wasn't ready for major minutes.

Very, very few of the transfers have been in Crean's hands. Maybe 1 or 2 of the early kids like Capobianco and Muniru. You know, back when he came here and for months couldn't go watch recruits in person because of Kelvin. Kids he signed during that period of time.

[GloryDays 5,920]

No. I don't believe there is a coach that would "outwork" Crean. Dude is relentless.

 

Marshall and Miller would NOT get a visit from Bryant or Maker. They are Crean's recruits through and through. I'm not saying those guys couldn't learn on the job and develop those connections or hire an assistant to help, but is that what you wanted? A HC to learn on the job??

 

How many of the undecided McDonald's All Americans are considering Wichita State or Dayton??

 Do you think Crean could draw them to Dayton or even Marquette? We shouldn't think for a minute that the resources at IU don't help.

IU's recruiting has always been strong and will be if or when Crean is gone.

The sad part is that even with all the top 100 we sign we are still a team struggling in the middle of the pack.Myself, I would be happy with a Coach like Marshall or Archie who can motivate under recruited kids to overacheave. If nothing else they have proven that coaching is a whole lot more than signing talent.

  No one here doubts we can get players with Crean,its the rest of it that gets a little dicey.

 Maybe if we sign 9 or 10 Burger Boys we will finish in the top of the league.

[8bucks 6,452]

The majority have left because they can realistically see their playing time is not going to be what they want. It's a highly competitive program atmosphere. I don't think many realize that not everyone of these coaches are into development like Crean. Indiana is getting after it on skill. They are teaching skill. Probably the biggest cause of the bad basketball in college right now. Too many teams just roll the balls out and rely on individual talents.

Luke got homesick, and apparently didn't have the heart to stick up for himself.

Mostly, guys want more opportunity too early. I loved Max's potential, but he wasn't ready for major minutes.

Very, very few of the transfers have been in Crean's hands. Maybe 1 or 2 of the early kids like Capobianco and Muniru. You know, back when he came here and for months couldn't go watch recruits in person because of Kelvin. Kids he signed during that period of time.

What I find ironic is that you defend Crean on the transfers because they were not devoping at a big time program. Now when we start to criticize Crean for not developing into a big time level coach you argue we would stay the course and wait for him to develop.

He appears to have this year. What are your expectations for our BT and NCAA success next year if we land Bryant and if we do not?

[redherring 42]

What I find ironic is that you defend Crean on the transfers because they were not devoping at a big time program. Now when we start to criticize Crean for not developing into a big time level coach you argue we would stay the course and wait for him to develop.

He appears to have this year. What are your expectations for our BT and NCAA success next year if we land Bryant and if we do not?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that first paragraph. I'm not defending Crean on the transfers. They happened. How are they related to Crean developing as a coach? That comparison is confusing. Crean has to improve as a coach but at this point he's pretty well got things figured out... And by all accounts he is a good head coach. Not an average one. Not a mediocre one. A good one. You only get to become great around here if you win a title. So he's never going to be good enough for anyone here until that happens. I just hope he stays.

Seems like Bryant is coming. I would expect that team, assuming everyone returns, to win the Big Ten. Yogi as a senior, he should expect to win the Big Ten. But it's kind of hard to have that old Indiana attitude of "we run the league" when Wisconsin and MSU run the league. In the NCAA I would expect to make the second weekend and from there anything can happen. We aren't to the point in this program where I would expect a Final Four.

Side note, why is it there's an attitude that Crean is the only coach to lose with talent? Just because we have had McDonald's guys doesn't mean anything. Means zero. Such a simpleton way of thinking, to think that IU is this big failure because some kids on the team played in this all star game. If you didn't watch it, you're lucky. 80% of the guys in that game can't play dead. They can't even play a loose pickup game without throwing the ball all over the gym.

[MikeRoberts 7,010]

Tom Crean does right by kids. Billy G... Well, Pop tarts. Crean is in a Tubby situation now.

wish we were in a Tubby situation, that would mean a lot more success!

[redherring 42]

If IU doesn't sell itself like he said I thought that is why we built things like Cook Hall? Next coach will have the same toys Crean has.

Yes. And I highly doubt a coach similar to Crean in caliber would come here and recruit to the level he has. There's this malaise about our recruiting but what's so bad about it? Priller and April aren't long term here most likely but other than that... Kind of hard to complain. Indiana wasn't great in 2015, and we are poised for a huge need inside. If things settle down, 2016 should be a power class...

Some misses for sure with Jurkin injured, Hollowell breaking down, Hanner's disinterest for two years, etc. That is what caused this dip. Recruiting errors. ALL coaches make them. IU just has to fix the situation... They are doing that, no?

[8bucks 6,452]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that first paragraph. I'm not defending Crean on the transfers. They happened. How are they related to Crean developing as a coach? That comparison is confusing. Crean has to improve as a coach but at this point he's pretty well got things figured out... And by all accounts he is a good head coach. Not an average one. Not a mediocre one. A good one. You only get to become great around here if you win a title. So he's never going to be good enough for anyone here until that happens. I just hope he stays.

Seems like Bryant is coming. I would expect that team, assuming everyone returns, to win the Big Ten. Yogi as a senior, he should expect to win the Big Ten. But it's kind of hard to have that old Indiana attitude of "we run the league" when Wisconsin and MSU run the league. In the NCAA I would expect to make the second weekend and from there anything can happen. We aren't to the point in this program where I would expect a Final Four.

Side note, why is it there's an attitude that Crean is the only coach to lose with talent? Just because we have had McDonald's guys doesn't mean anything. Means zero. Such a simpleton way of thinking, to think that IU is this big failure because some kids on the team played in this all star game. If you didn't watch it, you're lucky. 80% of the guys in that game can't play dead. They can't even play a loose pickup game without throwing the ball all over the gym.

Ok maybe I misunderstood on the transfers. If Crean has it all figured out now what are you expectations for next year? If he stays ten years what are your expectations for BT and NCAA success over that decade?

[mdn82 25,510]

Yes. And I highly doubt a coach similar to Crean in caliber would come here and recruit to the level he has. There's this malaise about our recruiting but what's so bad about it? Priller and April aren't long term here most likely but other than that... Kind of hard to complain. Indiana wasn't great in 2015, and we are poised for a huge need inside. If things settle down, 2016 should be a power class...

Some misses for sure with Jurkin injured, Hollowell breaking down, Hanner's disinterest for two years, etc. That is what caused this dip. Recruiting errors. ALL coaches make them. IU just has to fix the situation... They are doing that, no?

Well here is where I disagree. The assumption that Crean does things others couldn't really couldn't be further from the truth. Mike Davis recruited as good as Crean if not better being a first time coach. Sampson did the same in his short tenure. I would consider Davis a better example because they are similar in ability. He reeled in top classes frequently. He just couldn't coach them. Same as Crean. They are good for consistent top 30 classes with one that goes above every 3 years or so. Recruiting problems are the furthest concern from my mind.

[redherring 42]

Ok maybe I misunderstood on the transfers. If Crean has it all figured out now what are you expectations for next year? If he stays ten years what are your expectations for BT and NCAA success over that decade?

Has things figured out...meaning...he knows what he is as a coach and how he wants to do things. No coach has it figured out, definitely not in basketball. Hardest sport to coach with the least control.

My expectations for this program are competing to win the Big Ten every single year. You do that, you're going to be a contender every single year. It's a single elimination tournament. Kind of hard to put a number on what should be achieved. Typically there are 8 or so teams capable of winning it all. Are the other 7 automatically a failure like IU was two years ago? That's where I have a problem. Our own fans disrespect one of the great Indiana teams because of who coached that team.

Indiana should be winning the Big Ten on a regular basis. Every resource is in place to do that. Crean had to pull it out of the abyss and we've finally seen the sun again. I don't think going in another direction right now is very smart. We are close to having a normal roster, a talented roster, with class balance. We have a stable of pros in the league which helps recruiting, we just have to break through this uncertainty. Basically, just win. Be better. Take it to the next level. If that doesn't occur, it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks. Someone else will get a shot. My personal opinion is that Indiana won't do better than Crean because Crean is actually one of the best coaches around that isn't cheating. Guy makes me proud to watch IU again because of the people he brings in, the things he stands for, the things he does that no one knows about. I know that has nothing to do with banners and the program is WAY bigger than Crean. But damn if I don't want to throw that away for some squirrel like Archie Miller or some snake like Gregg Marshall.

[redherring 42]

Well here is where I disagree. The assumption that Crean does things others couldn't really couldn't be further from the truth. Mike Davis recruited as good as Crean if not better being a first time coach. Sampson did the same in his short tenure. I would consider Davis a better example because they are similar in ability. He reeled in top classes frequently. He just couldn't coach them. Same as Crean. They are good for consistent top 30 classes with one that goes above every 3 years or so. Recruiting problems are the furthest concern from my mind.

Tom Crean brought the following players to IU: Jordan Hulls, Christian Watford, Victor Oladipo, Will Sheehey, Cody Zeller, Yogi Ferrell, Noah Vonleh, Troy Williams, Collin Hartman, Devin Davis, James Blackmon, Robert Johnson, etc... To me that blows either of the prior coaches out of the water. Those are Indiana basketball guys. I don't fault anyone for disagreeing if you prefer Bracey Wright and co.

Indiana high school guys, and guys who have entrenched themselves as Hoosiers. Isn't that what everyone always complains about? Having that kind of person.

[8bucks 6,452]

Has things figured out...meaning...he knows what he is as a coach and how he wants to do things. No coach has it figured out, definitely not in basketball. Hardest sport to coach with the least control.

My expectations for this program are competing to win the Big Ten every single year. You do that, you're going to be a contender every single year. It's a single elimination tournament. Kind of hard to put a number on what should be achieved. Typically there are 8 or so teams capable of winning it all. Are the other 7 automatically a failure like IU was two years ago? That's where I have a problem. Our own fans disrespect one of the great Indiana teams because of who coached that team.

Indiana should be winning the Big Ten on a regular basis. Every resource is in place to do that. Crean had to pull it out of the abyss and we've finally seen the sun again. I don't think going in another direction right now is very smart. We are close to having a normal roster, a talented roster, with class balance. We have a stable of pros in the league which helps recruiting, we just have to break through this uncertainty. Basically, just win. Be better. Take it to the next level. If that doesn't occur, it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks. Someone else will get a shot. My personal opinion is that Indiana won't do better than Crean because Crean is actually one of the best coaches around that isn't cheating. Guy makes me proud to watch IU again because of the people he brings in, the things he stands for, the things he does that no one knows about. I know that has nothing to do with banners and the program is WAY bigger than Crean. But damn if I don't want to throw that away for some squirrel like Archie Miller or some snake like Gregg Marshall.

If you look back at the 2012-13 season we won in late Feb at MSU and then we were barely better than a .500 team the remaining 30-40 days. The poor performance down the stretch coupled with poor play in the BTT and the NCAA tourney (remember we barely beat temple) were what caused the disappointments in that season. It was not a 1 game bad night but well over a month where our performance down the stretch did not match our early season success.

We have had bad season finishes 3 years in a row now.

We do share similar expectations for continued success. Hopefully you agree that we have only had that 1 year over the last four.

[redherring 42]

If you look back at the 2012-13 season we won in late Feb at MSU and then we were barely better than a .500 team the remaining 30-40 days. The poor performance down the stretch coupled with poor play in the BTT and the NCAA tourney (remember we barely beat temple) were what caused the disappointments in that season. It was not a 1 game bad night but well over a month where our performance down the stretch did not match our early season success.

We have had bad season finishes 3 years in a row now.

We do share similar expectations for continued success. Hopefully you agree that we have only had that 1 year over the last four.

What's your explanation for the end to the 2012-13 season? I'd love to hear.

I think Indiana fans in general are to be commended for having such high expectations. No one else looks at IU like that, though. Like no one.