Pressure Defense

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

So a few friends of mine and I have been debating why IU doesn't use more pressure (full, 3/4 etc) defensive sets, especially given our depth at guard and weakness inside.

 

I've argued that our athletic depth isn't there yet, primarily at the wing and inside, to sustain that kind of up-tempo defense (especially considering the pace of our offense). In short, we would exhaust ourselves for minimal benefit. 

 

Do you think that if we played any kind of pressure set with greater regularity it would be beneficial at all? (IE) Would the price paid in stamina be worth it against it's ability to stop our opponents AND still score?

 

Further, do you think that the team next year (assuming all key contributors return, plus Annonoby and Morgan to reinforce the wing) will be more inclined to play this kind of defense (given the greater athletic depth at key positions)? 

 

NOTE: Please refrain from complaining about CTC (beyond his decision to refrain) if you choose to comment- I'm more interested in discussing the sustainability of this style, not frothing at the mouth comments about our failure to use it. 

[ALASKA HOOSIER 11,277]

My opinion~ I think we DO have the depth to run a pressure D and have been floored that we don't use that as our marquee defense. We know we don't have a big man that can stop another big man so why don't we run the pressure D? I think traps would pull their big out of the rim where we always get thrown around

[drewheck 749]

My opinion~ I think we DO have the depth to run a pressure D and have been floored that we don't use that as our marquee defense. We know we don't have a big man that can stop another big man so why don't we run the pressure D? I think traps would pull their big out of the rim where we always get thrown around

we do in paper my only thought against it would be all the times we overplay in the half court defense worries me but I'd like to see us try it we just have to work on defensive timing and how to jump the pass lanes better

[ALASKA HOOSIER 11,277]

Yeah, we do overplay at times. Especially JBJ

[ALASKA HOOSIER 11,277]

and TW

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

On this season:

I don't think we understand the basics of defense so I wouldn't add something to it at this point in the season.  I do think we have the personnel to run pressure.

 

Next season:

Hopefully we have our main sophomores and junior back next season.  If they can help instruct the underclassmen over the summer I would try to implement some pressure.  OG and Morgan add length that could be disruptive in a full or 3/4 press.  We should have the personnel to press next season.

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

I think my greatest concern with us pressing is our reliance on the high-motion/screen offense. It requires 5-players to constantly move and be ready to receive the ball and shoot. Paired with our rapid deployment of the ball after baskets/turnovers, we play an incredibly up-tempo and, as a result, exhausting offense. Adding in a press would run our team into the ground and put our greatest asset on offense at risk- our shooting. Statistically speaking, jump shot percentages tend to decrease as the game wears on (outside of the first 5 min "warm-up" period) due to fatigue setting in. If we used a heavy press, our ability to hit jumpers would likely decrease and I'm not sure the defensive advantage, paired with the expected increase in points of turnovers, would make up for the increase in missed jumpers and easy baskets allowed on broken presses.

 

Looking ahead, it's a feasible system next year (assuming players return) due to continuity and the ability to learn, practice, and perfect the system in advance of the season. We'd also have to play more isolation/penetration offense. This means a larger role for Yogi, Troy, and JBJ (meaning we need all three back). Still, with the talent/length coming in and the roster we have in place, I think that IU could run it's own brand of "havoc" and break teams at both ends of the court. 

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

I think we are missing one key player to any decent pressing or trapping team. That would be a shot blocker. I think we would give up way too many layup sor dunks if we pressed.

You need that athletic freak down low that causes opponents to alter their shots or think twice about attacking the hoop. Right now, if you attack against IU you get one of three options:

A: Dunk or layup
B: Fouled
C: Dunk or layup + Foul

It's sad, but I mean every word of that.

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

I think we are missing one key player to any decent pressing or trapping team. That would be a shot blocker. I think we would give up way too many layup sor dunks if we pressed.

You need that athletic freak down low that causes opponents to alter their shots or think twice about attacking the hoop. Right now, if you attack against IU you get one of three options:

A: Dunk or layup
B: Fouled
C: Dunk or layup + Foul

It's sad, but I mean every word of that.

 

I would also add that the best pressure teams have that second athletic freak.  If Hanner could get a grasp on defense to protect the basket and have a Holt (possibly OG next season) alongside him with Troy, RoJo, and Stan Rob up front pressuring the ball. 

[jbeaman9 1,032]

This is my first actual, contributing post on this site, please do not eat me alive, not yet at least  :D

 

In my opinion, a pressure defense is reliant on more than just having the fast guards and athletic big men to make it work. It is about smarts and understanding angles, when to trap, when not to trap, etc.  I think we do have the guards and depth at the guard position to put some light pressure on the guard bringing the ball up the court, however, I do not trust Troy one-on-one defending someone, he takes too many unnecessary chances, sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.  Hanner is not smart enough defensively yet to be able to be our last line of defense. I agree with previous posts about needing a shot blocker and needing a higher defense IQ. 

 

We cannot expect our guards to be able to pressure other team's guards full court, one-on-one if they can't guard someone in the half-court and we can't expect this team to be able to execute some sort of zone pressure when most times on our 2-3 zone or 1-3-1 zone defenses, our players are out of position.  

 

I think this team needs to do something else rather than going man-to-man then switching to zone or the other way around.  Throw a wrinkle at teams this late in the season could be a key to winning those close games.  Teams know our tendencies at this point in the season, we need to change those slightly to gain an edge.

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

This is my first actual, contributing post on this site, please do not eat me alive, not yet at least :D

In my opinion, a pressure defense is reliant on more than just having the fast guards and athletic big men to make it work. It is about smarts and understanding angles, when to trap, when not to trap, etc. I think we do have the guards and depth at the guard position to put some light pressure on the guard bringing the ball up the court, however, I do not trust Troy one-on-one defending someone, he takes too many unnecessary chances, sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. Hanner is not smart enough defensively yet to be able to be our last line of defense. I agree with previous posts about needing a shot blocker and needing a higher defense IQ.

We cannot expect our guards to be able to pressure other team's guards full court, one-on-one if they can't guard someone in the half-court and we can't expect this team to be able to execute some sort of zone pressure when most times on our 2-3 zone or 1-3-1 zone defenses, our players are out of position.

I think this team needs to do something else rather than going man-to-man then switching to zone or the other way around. Throw a wrinkle at teams this late in the season could be a key to winning those close games. Teams know our tendencies at this point in the season, we need to change those slightly to gain an edge.

Well thought out post and contribution. Welcome to the posting family :)

[Alford Bailey 12,421]

This is my first actual, contributing post on this site, please do not eat me alive, not yet at least  :D

 

In my opinion, a pressure defense is reliant on more than just having the fast guards and athletic big men to make it work. It is about smarts and understanding angles, when to trap, when not to trap, etc.  I think we do have the guards and depth at the guard position to put some light pressure on the guard bringing the ball up the court, however, I do not trust Troy one-on-one defending someone, he takes too many unnecessary chances, sometimes it works, other times it doesn't.  Hanner is not smart enough defensively yet to be able to be our last line of defense. I agree with previous posts about needing a shot blocker and needing a higher defense IQ. 

 

We cannot expect our guards to be able to pressure other team's guards full court, one-on-one if they can't guard someone in the half-court and we can't expect this team to be able to execute some sort of zone pressure when most times on our 2-3 zone or 1-3-1 zone defenses, our players are out of position.  

 

I think this team needs to do something else rather than going man-to-man then switching to zone or the other way around.  Throw a wrinkle at teams this late in the season could be a key to winning those close games.  Teams know our tendencies at this point in the season, we need to change those slightly to gain an edge.

Exactly. Nothing more to say, really. I will say if we could get to the point where we can play the 1-3-1 effectively that can really throw a wrinkle in the oppositions plan for a possession or two late in games.

[Alford Bailey 12,421]

Dont think we'll see any full court pressure under CTC no matter the personnel. Never has been his thing and honestly you don't see too much full court press in the college game anymore.

[Bryan Medema 1,488]

Dont think we'll see any full court pressure under CTC no matter the personnel. Never has been his thing and honestly you don't see too much full court press in the college game anymore.

Remember when people thought that VCU might bring it back in vouge? Ha....

As for the 1-3-1, I agree- I think it could be a great set for us if we can just get it up and running. The only issue with adding something like that in this late in the season is that (we can assume) it's under practiced and not very well understood. Then again, given the current state of the defense (against talented teams, Rutgers not included...), it couldn't hurt, right?

[jbeaman9 1,032]

The 1-3-1 could be extremely effective for this team with the makeup of players that we have.  In my opinion, I would put JBJ at the top, not our best on ball defender but a little length and great basketball IQ to jump the passing lanes.  Put Rojo and Yogi on the wings, quick guards that can play on ball defense, then I would put Hanenr at the free throw line, lots of length, able to disrupt passing lanes and challenge those elbow to elbow jumpers and then i would put Troy on the baseline, athletic enough to get from corner to corner and has the ability to rebound from there.  In the past I have seen Hartman there, no offense to Hartman cause I am a big fan of his effort and everything but he is not the best suited to be on the bottom when he has to cover ground and then try and rebound. 

For those who are visual people, here is my best shot at "drawing" it up:

 

                        JBJ

 

Yogi              Hanner            Rojo

                       

                       Troy

[WayneFleekHoosier 48,780]

excellent JB.  Agree completely. 

[Five Prime 1,093]

In addition to having smart players, as mentioned, I think you have to have hard nosed guys who "buy in" to the defensive side. We are much too soft imo to run an effective full court D. We would give up easy bucket after easy bucket. On the flip side against teams like Purdue (who got easy bucket after easy bucket anyway) any turnovers created may outweigh any potential risk.

[HoosierAloha 30,077]

The 1-3-1 could be extremely effective for this team with the makeup of players that we have.  In my opinion, I would put JBJ at the top, not our best on ball defender but a little length and great basketball IQ to jump the passing lanes.  Put Rojo and Yogi on the wings, quick guards that can play on ball defense, then I would put Hanenr at the free throw line, lots of length, able to disrupt passing lanes and challenge those elbow to elbow jumpers and then i would put Troy on the baseline, athletic enough to get from corner to corner and has the ability to rebound from there.  In the past I have seen Hartman there, no offense to Hartman cause I am a big fan of his effort and everything but he is not the best suited to be on the bottom when he has to cover ground and then try and rebound. 

For those who are visual people, here is my best shot at "drawing" it up:

 

                        JBJ

 

Yogi              Hanner            Rojo

                       

                       Troy

 

This is solid.  I would flip JBJ and Troy or put Stan at the top.  Troy seems to have ADHD on defense, not knocking Troy just what I've seen.  He needs to be engaged and active in the defense.  His length at the top would be disruptive as well.

[IU Hoosier41 14,465]

This is solid. I would flip JBJ and Troy or put Stan at the top. Troy seems to have ADHD on defense, not knocking Troy just what I've seen. He needs to be engaged and active in the defense. His length at the top would be disruptive as well.

Agree with TROY wrecking havoc at the top, just don't think JBJ as the lateral quickness down on the baseline to sustain. Might need someone else down there. Stan could prob work well.

[TomPritchard25 526]

Exactly. Nothing more to say, really. I will say if we could get to the point where we can play the 1-3-1 effectively that can really throw a wrinkle in the oppositions plan for a possession or two late in games.

I'm not positive but I'm 90% sure we've jumped into a 1-3-1 a few times in B1G! It's either that or a stacked zone where somebody was misplaced and lost, deceiving my eyes!!