Woodson and the HT on his new roster

[DChoosier 7,225]

1 hour ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

A Flory Bidunga type or less freshman in the Hatton spot.  He’s only going to play 15 min or less at Kansas. 
 

The debate is a talented freshman vs Hatton.

JHS was the guard equivalent. He was going to be more of a 6th man.  Injury gave him a chance and he had it.  High ceiling young guy.  

 

 

I would also, of course, take a young player that was better than, or had more upside, than Hatton but here we are with MR filling in at the 5 if Ballo gets hurt in addition to Hatton and/or small ball.

Kansas has Bidunga behind Hunter but really don’t have any other big men which gave FB a clear role when he was being recruited (not to mention some thought HD might go pro). Sliding  MR to the 5 puts us close to having the same insurance policy Kansas has. Bidinga has a role, JHS had a role as a 6-th-7th man (but then X got hurt) but at this point I’m not aware of a talented available big man we could land with the limited role we have to offer.  If we find one that would be great but I wouldn’t bet on it.

[IUFAN1976 2,634]

20 hours ago, ebridges24 said:

And, Malik has shown the ability to step out and hit the 3. I'm sure he'll get even better.

Malik is a black hole, IMO.  The guy couldn’t recognize a double or triple team and pass out and he wasn’t that good of a three point shooter.  He’s just shown the ability doesn’t make him serviceable in that area.

[HoosierHoopster 6,480]

13 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Malik is a black hole, IMO.  The guy couldn’t recognize a double or triple team and pass out and he wasn’t that good of a three point shooter.  He’s just shown the ability doesn’t make him serviceable in that area.

I have felt similarly, as much as I like his excellent footwork and mini hook, but think it’s part of the play through the post / up front system. Plays haven’t been run for kickouts, complete failure to use the outside shot. For me, it’s on the staff. Malik is a heck of a player, imagine him at KU, UCONN, etc. I’m hoping Woodson, who still will of course play his 2 big scheme, will now have sets and actions that use the perimeter as a much larger part of the O — if he does I think we’ll see Malik passing out better, kid has game, the staff needs to use it better.

[IUFAN1976 2,634]

44 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I have felt similarly, as much as I like his excellent footwork and mini hook, but think it’s part of the play through the post / up front system. Plays haven’t been run for kickouts, complete failure to use the outside shot. For me, it’s on the staff. Malik is a heck of a player, imagine him at KU, UCONN, etc. I’m hoping Woodson, who still will of course play his 2 big scheme, will now have sets and actions that use the perimeter as a much larger part of the O — if he does I think we’ll see Malik passing out better, kid has game, the staff needs to use it better.

I agree!  He can play and most of it is on the coaching staff to figure it out and create space.

[Demo 18,588]

35 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

I have felt similarly, as much as I like his excellent footwork and mini hook, but think it’s part of the play through the post / up front system. Plays haven’t been run for kickouts, complete failure to use the outside shot. For me, it’s on the staff. Malik is a heck of a player, imagine him at KU, UCONN, etc. I’m hoping Woodson, who still will of course play his 2 big scheme, will now have sets and actions that use the perimeter as a much larger part of the O — if he does I think we’ll see Malik passing out better, kid has game, the staff needs to use it better.

If we had an appreciation spectrum for every player on the roster, and I’d love to figure out a way to do that in a thread, by the way, I’d be on the high, high end of Reneau’s. Love him. At the college level he’s a borderline elite post scorer. And both here and particularly at Montverde he’s demonstrated facilitation skills. But there are 2 things they gotta fix to maximize this year: 1) There’s a fine line between playing at your own pace and being indecisive and he crosses it a couple of times a game and that’s got to stop. Make your read and make a decision. And with the offensive options they’ve added I expect that’ll happen. 2) A guy with great offensive footwork can’t have defensive footwork that bad. His weight gets high, he crosses his feet and commits hand fouls. Jesus. He can’t hold up as a waist bender. If he has to walk around campus all day with his knees bent and his weight back, then do that. He’s also clearly gonna be Ballo’s backup minutes, it’s not gonna be Hatton, and he has to get much better at denying post position earlier. He’s big and strong enough to hold up against 90% of post guys if he engages and denies early enough. He can’t engage at 8’, he’s got to do his work at 15’. If he becomes competent at that stuff he’s an all conference player. 

[HoosierHoopster 6,480]

40 minutes ago, Demo said:

If we had an appreciation spectrum for every player on the roster, and I’d love to figure out a way to do that in a thread, by the way, I’d be on the high, high end of Reneau’s. Love him. At the college level he’s a borderline elite post scorer. And both here and particularly at Montverde he’s demonstrated facilitation skills. But there are 2 things they gotta fix to maximize this year: 1) There’s a fine line between playing at your own pace and being indecisive and he crosses it a couple of times a game and that’s got to stop. Make your read and make a decision. And with the offensive options they’ve added I expect that’ll happen. 2) A guy with great offensive footwork can’t have defensive footwork that bad. His weight gets high, he crosses his feet and commits hand fouls. Jesus. He can’t hold up as a waist bender. If he has to walk around campus all day with his knees bent and his weight back, then do that. He’s also clearly gonna be Ballo’s backup minutes, it’s not gonna be Hatton, and he has to get much better at denying post position earlier. He’s big and strong enough to hold up against 90% of post guys if he engages and denies early enough. He can’t engage at 8’, he’s got to do his work at 15’. If he becomes competent at that stuff he’s an all conference player. 

Yeah good points, defensively he’s still a work in progress— and that appreciation spectrum idea sounds like it’d make for a fun thread

[RaceToTheTop 24,421]

16 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Malik is a black hole, IMO.  The guy couldn’t recognize a double or triple team and pass out and he wasn’t that good of a three point shooter.  He’s just shown the ability doesn’t make him serviceable in that area.

As a sophomore, TJD averaged 1.4 assists in 34 minutes per game.  As a junior, he averaged 1.9 assists in 32 minutes per game.  Last season -- his first as a starter -- Reneau averaged 2.7 assists.  

Have to realize that although we have lacked shooters, TJD had better shooters to kick out to than Reneau did last year.  Although the ball stuck sometimes last year with him, that wasn't all his fault.

When I'm looking at issues for next season, Reneau is way down on that list.

[Stuhoo 77,372]

Malik Reneau has an elite skill—that’s incredibly valuable. He also has evident flaws.

Last year he cleaned up his flaws… to a degree. If he continues to work on his flaws the only thing left to show will be his elite skill. Hopeful.

[HoosierHoopster 6,480]

23 minutes ago, RaceToTheTop said:

As a sophomore, TJD averaged 1.4 assists in 34 minutes per game.  As a junior, he averaged 1.9 assists in 32 minutes per game.  Last season -- his first as a starter -- Reneau averaged 2.7 assists.  

Have to realize that although we have lacked shooters, TJD had better shooters to kick out to than Reneau did last year.  Although the ball stuck sometimes last year with him, that wasn't all his fault.

When I'm looking at issues for next season, Reneau is way down on that list.

From what i saw his assists were mostly inside, which went along with our finishing at the very bottom in outside shot attempts. We don’t have a kickout game - not saying that’s necessarily on Malik, it just wasn’t there. I’m hopeful that changes with the added shooting. With TJD it was Race where the ball often got stuck when he tried to go iso. Malik has an outstanding individual offensive game but his ability - recognition of when to kick the ball back out is still a question mark, imo, as I said above i think it’s mostly on staff, but need to see it this year.

[mshoosier 3]

2 hours ago, Demo said:

If we had an appreciation spectrum for every player on the roster, and I’d love to figure out a way to do that in a thread, by the way, I’d be on the high, high end of Reneau’s. Love him. At the college level he’s a borderline elite post scorer. And both here and particularly at Montverde he’s demonstrated facilitation skills. But there are 2 things they gotta fix to maximize this year: 1) There’s a fine line between playing at your own pace and being indecisive and he crosses it a couple of times a game and that’s got to stop. Make your read and make a decision. And with the offensive options they’ve added I expect that’ll happen. 2) A guy with great offensive footwork can’t have defensive footwork that bad. His weight gets high, he crosses his feet and commits hand fouls. Jesus. He can’t hold up as a waist bender. If he has to walk around campus all day with his knees bent and his weight back, then do that. He’s also clearly gonna be Ballo’s backup minutes, it’s not gonna be Hatton, and he has to get much better at denying post position earlier. He’s big and strong enough to hold up against 90% of post guys if he engages and denies early enough. He can’t engage at 8’, he’s got to do his work at 15’. If he becomes competent at that stuff he’s an all conference player. 

Agree that offensive concerns for MR are smaller.  My concerns still center on defensive guarding and rebounding improvement.  He has got to improve closing out three point shooters and blocking out on the defensive board, along with moving his feet and improving his positioning on drivers.  Seems like a great young man who loves to play, hope he makes the leap.

[IUFAN1976 2,634]

2 hours ago, RaceToTheTop said:

As a sophomore, TJD averaged 1.4 assists in 34 minutes per game.  As a junior, he averaged 1.9 assists in 32 minutes per game.  Last season -- his first as a starter -- Reneau averaged 2.7 assists.  

Have to realize that although we have lacked shooters, TJD had better shooters to kick out to than Reneau did last year.  Although the ball stuck sometimes last year with him, that wasn't all his fault.

When I'm looking at issues for next season, Reneau is way down on that list.

Noted!!!  I would say Ballo would be the top of the list.  I’m not going to state it like others because I don’t want to jinx it, lol!

[AH1971 1,306]

On 6/7/2024 at 9:06 PM, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Woody might regret not filling roster spot 13. The 5 spot rests in Ballo’s hands, which is great but if we lose him things are going to be rough at the 5. Hard for me not to worry about this. Maybe Hatton can alleviate my concerns but that isn’t going to happen. Bart Torvik and Bossi don’t even know who he is. He’s gonna be overwhelmed by B1G talent. I think the staff is super cocky with this roster and it has a glaring hole in it. BUT I love Ballo, so there’s that.


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I think this all but reinforces that Woodson plans to stagger Ballo and Reneau’s minutes. I fully expect Ballo and Reneau to start at the 4 and 5 but don’t see any way they play 30 minutes simultaneously. Too much versatility elsewhere. I’ve always considered Hatton as an emergency signing and don’t see him playing extended minutes unless someone gets hurt. I see Ballo/Reneau occupying the 5 spot for ~35 mpg.

[AH1971 1,306]

22 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Malik is a black hole, IMO.  The guy couldn’t recognize a double or triple team and pass out and he wasn’t that good of a three point shooter.  He’s just shown the ability doesn’t make him serviceable in that area.

Malik has the chance to be an elite (and efficient) scorer around the basket as the 5 in a small ball lineup, as does Ballo. Teams aren’t going to double and triple team Malik (or Ballo) with guys like Mgbako, Goode, Rice, Carlyle, etc out on the perimeter. That’s the upside to not having to rely on Cupps, Galloway, Gunn, etc as your primary backcourt for long stretches.