2024 (F) Kanon Catchings and Whatever

[Stuhoo]

13 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

And Loyer is the only one out of any of them that has won anything while also being good.

Well then put Caleb Furst and Willie Berg ahead of the posts in the conference too. My point is that Purdue won despite Loyer, not because of him. When they won because of him, it was largely because Edey drew a ton of double and triple teams, and Loyer shot open threes. 

Loyer is a pretty decent open catch and shoot guy, and outstanding free throw shooter, and pretty bad at pretty much everything else. Lousy handle, doesn't go to the rim, awful rebounder, and most importantly is a bad defender. As a  career starter he is below 40% from both the field and three; he shot it better last year (but played less than as a freshman). 

Purdue may be very good again, but if they are it might be because Colvin and Harris take a bunch of Loyer's minutes.

[HoosierHoopster]

^^ None of them have anything on Leal though: GOAT

[Stuhoo]

44 minutes ago, HoosierHoopster said:

^^ None of them have anything on Leal though: GOAT

Leal > Loyer

;)

Let's see you process and argue about that one @Loaded Chicken Sandwich!  :) 

[OGIUAndy]

10 hours ago, Scotty R said:

I think it will be IU and PU fighting for 1st place this year. I still think team continuity and team chemistry is the key to winning over trying to buy a team every year.

Any team who's not playing that game is going to lose out when it's all said and done. Continuity is important, but if your team is a bunch of freshmen and sophomore's playing against 3, 4, and 5 year guys, you're going to lose regardless if the older team was "bought". Filling in the gaps with said "bought" players instead of relying on freshmen is the way to go. The idea that continuity is better than buying players sounds good and I suppose teams/schools that have poor NIL can try to sell that idea, but I am not really buying it. When it's all said and done, both are finding players that fit and play well together. Older players don't have to figure everything out though. Continuity at the end of the season (tourney time) is when it matters most. 

[Stuhoo]

38 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

Any team who's not playing that game is going to lose out when it's all said and done. Continuity is important, but if your team is a bunch of freshmen and sophomore's playing against a bunch of 3, 4, 5 year guys, they are going to lose regardless if the older team was "bought". And the way to do it is to fill in gaps with said "bought" players instead of relying only on freshmen. The idea that continuity is better than buying players sounds good, and I suppose teams/schools that have poor NIL can try to sell that idea, but I am not really buying it. When it's all said and done, both are finding players that fit and play well together. Older players don't have to figure everything out either. Continuity at the end of the season (tourney time) is when it matters most. 

It comes down to building a great roster. 

To accomplish that ultimate goal, the ingredients are talent, experience, continuity, depth, and covering a variety of skill sets.

NIL budget helps with that ultimate goal, but it's not an entire means to the end.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Leal > Loyer

;)

Let's see you process and argue about that one @Loaded Chicken Sandwich!  :) 

Leal is indeed the G.O.A.T. There is zero argument.

[AH1971]

6 hours ago, Scotty R said:

Everytime people think Purdue will fall off they never do. After Carson they said that and after Ivey the same thing. Two years ago nobody thought Edey would be as  good as he was but they came out and dominated early that year.

Also I already thought the conference has been down for awhile now. To me the more teams you put in the more diluted it becomes. You should realize when your second place team finishes 12-8 your conference is mediocre.

Immediately after Carsen they went 16-15 and fortunate for them, had the tournament cancelled because of COVID. They won two tournament games over the next 3 seasons after that before finally playing in the title game with a once in a lifetime giant last season. They're built to win games in the B10 as Painter has mastered the art of finding high floor/low ceiling guys who buy in. But they're typically not a threat to do much in the postseason as evident by Painter's tournament track record the last two decades. 

[AH1971]

3 hours ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

And Loyer is the only one out of any of them that has won anything while also being good.

Put any of those guys on a team with Zach Edey and you can change that sentence around 9 different ways. The won in spite of Fletcher Loyer. 

[Stuhoo]

Allow me to quote two current Hoosiers:

Jakai Newton: "Weak-@$$ Purdue."

Yarden Garzon: "I traveled 5,000 miles to say "f**k Purdue"

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich]

49 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Put any of those guys on a team with Zach Edey and you can change that sentence around 9 different ways. The won in spite of Fletcher Loyer. 

Maybe. But they weren't. And he was. And he played pretty well and shot it really really well.

[Scotty R]

59 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Immediately after Carsen they went 16-15 and fortunate for them, had the tournament cancelled because of COVID. They won two tournament games over the next 3 seasons after that before finally playing in the title game with a once in a lifetime giant last season. They're built to win games in the B10 as Painter has mastered the art of finding high floor/low ceiling guys who buy in. But they're typically not a threat to do much in the postseason as evident by Painter's tournament track record the last two decades. 

I would love to have their regular seasons. I still rather build a team like Painter than having to rely on the portal very year. Maybe it is because I am old school or I have seen 3 championships. I just would like to have great regular seasons and enjoy 4 months of great basketball over worrying about the last 3 weeks of the year.

[AH1971]

3 minutes ago, Loaded Chicken Sandwich said:

Maybe. But they weren't. And he was. And he played pretty well and shot it really really well.

He shot well with his feet set and under him with nobody guarding him. You could attribute 80-90% of that due to the attention Edey drew. It’s very clear that in games where teams elected not to double Edey and ran him off the 3 point he struggled immensely. I don’t see anyone on next years Purdue team who comes close to drawing anywhere near the attention that Edey did.

And don’t get me started on the defensive end. If he’s a net positive on both ends of the floor next year I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

[AH1971]

2 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

I would love to have their regular seasons. I still rather build a team like Painter than having to rely on the portal very year. Maybe it is because I am old school or I have seen 3 championships. I just would like to have great regular seasons and enjoy 4 months of great basketball over worrying about the last 3 weeks of the year.

No reason to not have both. I’ve seen 3 as well but understand the climate in college basketball is vastly different today than it was 40 years ago. 

[Scotty R]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

He shot well with his feet set and under him with nobody guarding him. You could attribute 80-90% of that due to the attention Edey drew. It’s very clear that in games where teams elected not to double Edey and ran him off the 3 point he struggled immensely. I don’t see anyone on next years Purdue team who comes close to drawing anywhere near the attention that Edey did.

And don’t get me started on the defensive end. If he’s a net positive on both ends of the floor next year I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

I am sure some of IU best teams could say the same thing about a player. If you took Alford off the 87 team would those other players be the same without him.

[Scotty R]

3 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

He shot well with his feet set and under him with nobody guarding him. You could attribute 80-90% of that due to the attention Edey drew. It’s very clear that in games where teams elected not to double Edey and ran him off the 3 point he struggled immensely. I don’t see anyone on next years Purdue team who comes close to drawing anywhere near the attention that Edey did.

And don’t get me started on the defensive end. If he’s a net positive on both ends of the floor next year I’ll be pleasantly surprised.

UCONN last year only had 1 transfer that was in their first year most of their team had been together for more than a year. I just think the portal should be used as a way to fill needs and not to build your roster. I would rather next year we mainly concentrate on the have fun school class of 25 and not the portal. Give me Mullins, Sisley, Moreno and Tiller and the maybe a couple of transfers. I am hopeful that guys like Rice and Carlyle is here more than a year plus have experience guys like Newton and Cupps back as well.

[Scotty R]

I guarantee I hate Purdue more than anyone but I can still see be objective when looking at their program . I just don't understand why some IU fans can't see their accomplishments under Painter and at least respect what they have done.

[AH1971]

15 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

I guarantee I hate Purdue more than anyone but I can still see be objective when looking at their program . I just don't understand why some IU fans can't see their accomplishments under Painter and at least respect what they have done.

Respect the hell out of what Purdue/Painter have done, simply correcting you that they are susceptible to falling off after losing a core group/superstar.

- They missed the tournament two straight years plus lost in the first round the in the next two tournaments in the 4 years immediately following the last Baby Boiler

-after the core of Mathias/Edwards/Haas/Swanigan/Edwards all moved on the went 16-15 after their E8 run and then to lost a 13,15,16 in consecutive tournaments.

Purdue will be fine under Painter, but history shows they don’t reload overnight 

[Scotty R]

2 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

Respect the hell out of what Purdue/Painter have done done, simply correcting you that they are susceptible to falling off after losing a core group/superstar.

- They missed the tournament two straight years plus lost in the first round the in the next two tournaments in the 4 years immediately following the last Baby Boiler

-after the core of Mathias/Edwards/Haas/Swanigan/Edwards all moved on the went 16-15 after their E8 run and then to lost a 13,15,16 in consecutive tournaments.

Purdue will be fine under Painter, but history shows they don’t reload overnight 

After the Hummel years Painter went against his recruiting philosophy and went more about talent. He learned from that and went back to recruiting for fit over our talent 

[AH1971]

18 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

UCONN last year only had 1 transfer that was in their first year most of their team had been together for more than a year. I just think the portal should be used as a way to fill needs and not to build your roster. I would rather next year we mainly concentrate on the have fun school class of 25 and not the portal. Give me Mullins, Sisley, Moreno and Tiller and the maybe a couple of transfers. I am hopeful that guys like Rice and Carlyle is here more than a year plus have experience guys like Newton and Cupps back as well.

I think Woodson has locked into 5 core recruits: Haralson, Mullins, Sisley, Moreno, and Tiller. I think he’d take all 5 if all wanted to come but would be content with up to 3. 

[AH1971]

5 minutes ago, Scotty R said:

After the Hummel years Painter went against his recruiting philosophy and went more about talent. He learned from that and went back to recruiting for fit over our talent 

Correct, but he’s still susceptible to falling off (see 2019-2020 season) and needing a few years to build his roster to really threaten in the tournament (see 2021, 2022, and 2023). He doesn’t recruit well enough to reload overnight. I don’t expect Purdue to “fall off a cliff” this season. But I don’t think it’s more likely they finish mid-pack in the B10 this vs competing for a B10 title.