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IU_FanClub

Serious Question

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4 hours ago, hoosierbgh said:

One might as well suggest that simply watching Lebron play allows them to duplicate his performance. 

They not only don't know what they don't know, they don't even have an inkling that there may even be something they don't know.

Physical abilities, intelligence, and personal skills. We were debating intelligence and personal skills. I am certain that the gap between coaches and fans, in terms of basketball intelligence, is anywhere close to what is being claimed. The information and knowledge to learn basketball at a high level is widespread. One cannot simply grow a foot in height, increase their wingspan, speed, and physical abilities like they can intake and digest the intelligence part of the game. I'm unsure how that was even considered in the thought process of your post.

It's amazing how some on here can call out where we'll have issues with certain teams, schemes, and players without being a coach. If they only had an inkling of what they didn't know they might know they didn't know it.

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54 minutes ago, IUFAN1976 said:

I just want to point out that teams get better as a season goes on or should get better.  This is a new coaching staff trying to put their system in place. We will have ups and downs but I do believe this team will get better. They may not win Thursday, they may not win the B10, they may not win the B10 tournament, and all those are likely scenarios; however, they will improve and continue to compete in their remaining games.  
 

Take the 81 championship team, and don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to compare this teams personnel and outcome to their season to this current team.  This team had an overall record of 26-9, not bad.  But during their non conference season, they went 7-5 and got beat by Texas Rio Grand Valley their last nonconference game just before the B10 season and they totally dropped out of the top 20 rankings.  The players decided to have a team meeting and they finally started pulling in the same direction and went 14-4 to win the B10 and National Title.

My point is, give this coaching staff and team time to gel before all the armchair coaches start criticizing.

I hope the point guard position is the one that improves the fastest, they are killing us!

I believe the team has improved in some areas; TJD has been kicking the ball out and the ball has moved better offensively, taking care of the ball for a stretch of games, shooting has been better in some stretches, there has been better communication when getting back in transition (it's really evident with Geronimo and Galloway).

I'd really like to see progression with turnovers, especially in crunch time. I'd like to see improvement with volume and percentage of 3 point shooting. I'd like to see players really hone in on getting to the spots where they shoot the best (doing what they do best overall). I'd like to see our FT% steadily increase (loved watching X knocking his down late). We could do a much better job of help defense when teams isolate or target Kopp and P Stew.

It's a process not a destination. I'd really like for us to continue to improve and be playing our best ball at the end of the season to win a few in the BTT (have we done this outside one or two tourneys?) and get into the dance with a chance to advance.

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IUFAN1976 said, "Take the 81 championship team..."

The 1981 team had a point guard named Isiah Thomas. Our point guards obviously will never play at Isiah's level. But they have to play better than they have for this team to have a chance to get better.

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2 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Physical abilities, intelligence, and personal skills. We were debating intelligence and personal skills. I am certain that the gap between coaches and fans, in terms of basketball intelligence, is anywhere close to what is being claimed. The information and knowledge to learn basketball at a high level is widespread. One cannot simply grow a foot in height, increase their wingspan, speed, and physical abilities like they can intake and digest the intelligence part of the game. I'm unsure how that was even considered in the thought process of your post.

It's amazing how some on here can call out where we'll have issues with certain teams, schemes, and players without being a coach. If they only had an inkling of what they didn't know they might know they didn't know it.

I chose the physical activities example precisely because it is an easy analogy for most to understand. However, seeing something and believing you can do it with no actual experience isn't any less delusional simply because one activity requires physical abilities and other activities requires different lacked abilities. Whether the observed activity is playing high level basketball or coaching it, thinking that one can learn to do it at a high level simply by watching it and studying it only serves to illustrate how little understanding they actually have. Again there is a huge difference between memorizing basketball plays and actually understanding the game. Were it that easy coaches wouldn't make the big bucks and anyone that had the interest would be a fool not to pursue it. 

It's not all that hard to claim knowledge, especially when there is no consequence for being wrong, and no one keeping score. Actually implementing that knowledge is more problematic. However, in most cases that's not what we're even talking about here. What we're talking about is people making the same predictions every game, then pounding their chests when they get it correct on occasion and either completely ignoring it when they're wrong or claiming the team won despite the predicted issues. Someone as infallible as claimed should be making bank gambling on the games if not coaching themselves. Of course infallibility is easy when it is untested. 

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3 minutes ago, hoosierbgh said:

I chose the physical activities example precisely because it is an easy analogy for most to understand. However, seeing something and believing you can do it with no actual experience isn't any less delusional simply because one activity requires physical abilities and other activities requires different lacked abilities. Whether the observed activity is playing high level basketball or coaching it, thinking that one can learn to do it at a high level simply by watching it and studying it only serves to illustrate how little understanding they actually have. Again there is a huge difference between memorizing basketball plays and actually understanding the game. Were it that easy coaches wouldn't make the big bucks and anyone that had the interest would be a fool not to pursue it. 

It's not all that hard to claim knowledge, especially when there is no consequence for being wrong, and no one keeping score. Actually implementing that knowledge is more problematic. However, in most cases that's not what we're even talking about here. What we're talking about is people making the same predictions every game, then pounding their chests when they get it correct on occasion and either completely ignoring it when they're wrong or claiming the team won despite the predicted issues. Someone as infallible as claimed should be making bank gambling on the games if not coaching themselves. Of course infallibility is easy when it is untested. 

Relationships, personal skills..

Why has there been a huge influx of assistant coaches that come from the AAU or the elite high school programs? Relationships, connections, etc. They can be taught the nuances of coaching. The knowledge is out there, you can find it all over. If you are intelligent enough (not a crazy high level) you can understand it. There are people out there that make a living, some a crap ton of money, by knowing the game and they're not coaches!

Why do they make so much money? Because our society values entertainment and coaches are part of the entertainment.

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4 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Knowledge of the opposing coach, players, and officiating crew is a part of relationships. Again, a lot of that is film study and knowing their tendencies. We're to the point that computers can learn that... almost like intuition where you could know the likelihood of what play they'll run in different situations. Crazy!

Coaches, especially at the power 5 level, are typically the best at their craft. However, they're far from flawless and make mistakes. It's crazy how quickly a talking head will point out a good or bad play, the adjustment coaches need to make, or when a team needs to ride a hot hand. It's almost like they know the game and they're not a coach!

How many people were yelling at their screens to get someone in the middle of the court to break Iowa's full-court "pressure?" I guess we didn't know what we were talking about because we are not coaches. The game has advanced, everything surrounding the game has advanced, let's catch up in our thinking and advance too. If not, I guess we can keep pointing to banners of yesteryear and hoping things will be different.

 

Knowing the likelihood of a particular play being run in different situations is easy. Guessing correctly and countering it on a regular basis is a bit more challenging. Then there's countering the counter and getting the players to execute. 

Of course coaches are not flawless. The only ones who think they are flawless are fans who've never actually been tested. I've heard more than one commentator note that they are undefeated after leaving the coaching ranks and entering the commentators booth. It's probably the most astute observation many of them have ever made. Knowing what should be done is the easy part, getting a team to do it is a bit more difficult. 

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5 minutes ago, hoosierbgh said:

Knowing the likelihood of a particular play being run in different situations is easy. Guessing correctly and countering it on a regular basis is a bit more challenging. Then there's countering the counter and getting the players to execute. 

Of course coaches are not flawless. The only ones who think they are flawless are fans who've never actually been tested. I've heard more than one commentator note that they are undefeated after leaving the coaching ranks and entering the commentators booth. It's probably the most astute observation many of them have ever made. Knowing what should be done is the easy part, getting a team to do it is a bit more difficult. 

Can we get one of those fans who think they're flawless to coach a few games? Maybe we'd be onto something, but let's only do it during the cupcake season so we won't lose! (this is joke for those who can't tell. I'm unsure of any fan on here who thinks they're flawless)

Completely agreed, especially when dealing with 17 to 70 (Bohanon) year olds. Knowing your personnel, building trust, building that RELATIONSHIP that they'll run through a wall for you, put in that extra time to develop skills and strengths. That's what separates fans, coaches, and great coaches.

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2 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Relationships, personal skills..

Why has there been a huge influx of assistant coaches that come from the AAU or the elite high school programs? Relationships, connections, etc. They can be taught the nuances of coaching. The knowledge is out there, you can find it all over. If you are intelligent enough (not a crazy high level) you can understand it. There are people out there that make a living, some a crap ton of money, by knowing the game and they're not coaches!

Why do they make so much money? Because our society values entertainment and coaches are part of the entertainment.

Sure, relationships and connections to players are why AAU and high school coaches are hired. It's not new. How many have coaching careers that last a minute longer than their connections? And yes, the can be taught coaching, taught not learning it from simply watching games, but how many end up making it to a head coaching position? How many that do last very long?

Absolutely, we value entertainment but if schools could provide similar entertainment by paying John Q Game Watcher significantly less than the millions paid to the Coach K's or the Calipari's of the world, they'd do so in a heartbeat. 

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2 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Can we get one of those fans who think they're flawless to coach a few games? Maybe we'd be onto something, but let's only do it during the cupcake season so we won't lose! (this is joke for those who can't tell. I'm unsure of any fan on here who thinks they're flawless)

Completely agreed, especially when dealing with 17 to 70 (Bohanon) year olds. Knowing your personnel, building trust, building that RELATIONSHIP that they'll run through a wall for you, put in that extra time to develop skills and strengths. That's what separates fans, coaches, and great coaches.

Does Dakich count as a fan? We tried that once and he wasn't nearly as infallible from the bench as he later became in the booth. 

I'd say decision making is what separates fans from coaches and just another coach from great coaches but agree that everything you mention plays a part. 

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4 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

I believe the team has improved in some areas; TJD has been kicking the ball out and the ball has moved better offensively, taking care of the ball for a stretch of games, shooting has been better in some stretches, there has been better communication when getting back in transition (it's really evident with Geronimo and Galloway).

I'd really like to see progression with turnovers, especially in crunch time. I'd like to see improvement with volume and percentage of 3 point shooting. I'd like to see players really hone in on getting to the spots where they shoot the best (doing what they do best overall). I'd like to see our FT% steadily increase (loved watching X knocking his down late). We could do a much better job of help defense when teams isolate or target Kopp and P Stew.

It's a process not a destination. I'd really like for us to continue to improve and be playing our best ball at the end of the season to win a few in the BTT (have we done this outside one or two tourneys?) and get into the dance with a chance to advance.

I actually think that is what we should expect and I think it will happen.  

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9 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

What does a coach know that you can't find readily available online or watching film. It's there. You have people making a living by this and you have fans. The difference is the time they put in. You have people breaking film down and providing it on Twitter. Do they not have the knowledge of the game? Yes, all of the information and knowledge is there for anyone to learn.

Coaching is not some mystical job role for only the chosen ones. It's just not that way anymore. You could probably develop a program that could manage a baseball team almost as well as a human, possibly better. We can continue to live in the past or we could actually come out of the dark ages and evolve.

SMH.

You probably could find all the medical books you want an read them.  That doesn't make you a doctor.

 

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4 hours ago, Honkyman said:

IUFAN1976 said, "Take the 81 championship team..."

The 1981 team had a point guard named Isiah Thomas. Our point guards obviously will never play at Isiah's level. But they have to play better than they have for this team to have a chance to get better.

I know and I was going to mention that but forgot to.  There is no way our current point guards will be at that level or even 1/2.  My point is improvement, which is all we should see and expect along with making the tournament.  1st year coach and staff, that’s probably better than most new coaches.

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3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

SMH.

You probably could find all the medical books you want an read them.  That doesn't make you a doctor.

 

Yes, that is a comparison I am making. SMH

You have to go to meet the prereqs for coaching school like you do med school. Ummm..

You have to go to coaching school like you do med school. Right...

You have to get certified by a coaching board like you do to practice medicine. Oh wait...

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5 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Physical abilities, intelligence, and personal skills. We were debating intelligence and personal skills. I am certain that the gap between coaches and fans, in terms of basketball intelligence, is anywhere close to what is being claimed. The information and knowledge to learn basketball at a high level is widespread. One cannot simply grow a foot in height, increase their wingspan, speed, and physical abilities like they can intake and digest the intelligence part of the game. I'm unsure how that was even considered in the thought process of your post.

It's amazing how some on here can call out where we'll have issues with certain teams, schemes, and players without being a coach. If they only had an inkling of what they didn't know they might know they didn't know it.

I don't like the sub pattern but I don't know the players and their capabilities of playing a lot of minutes.  I can say I disagree having 5 subs in at one time but that doesn't mean I can coach at a college level.

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4 hours ago, Honkyman said:

IUFAN1976 said, "Take the 81 championship team..."

The 1981 team had a point guard named Isiah Thomas. Our point guards obviously will never play at Isiah's level. But they have to play better than they have for this team to have a chance to get better.

Even with IT they were still 7-5 and if Turner didn't decide to start playing like he was capable of we wouldn't have won.

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1 hour ago, hoosierbgh said:

Sure, relationships and connections to players are why AAU and high school coaches are hired. It's not new. How many have coaching careers that last a minute longer than their connections? And yes, the can be taught coaching, taught not learning it from simply watching games, but how many end up making it to a head coaching position? How many that do last very long?

Absolutely, we value entertainment but if schools could provide similar entertainment by paying John Q Game Watcher significantly less than the millions paid to the Coach K's or the Calipari's of the world, they'd do so in a heartbeat. 

I was watching a game the other night, like the whole thing, both two twenty minute periods. These people were just running all around and then threw the orange thing towards that clear thing hanging in the air. It went through the other orange thing sometimes and other times didn't. I was sitting there thinking how could anyone other than coaches understand how this thing works. They just kept running and running, sometimes they ran into the other people and then it stopped. Those people in the striped shirts blew the whistle sometimes and it stopped.

This one person was standing next to this other person then he kind of looked at the person with the ball when he did that person he was kind of standing next to before he ran to the clear thing hanging in the air. Then that person with the ball threw it at him real hard then he put it through the orange circle thing. I just couldn't figure out how he could run by the other player and catch the ball and put it through the circle thing.

I called up my local coach right after that game so I could learn. He told me only coaches could understand the game and it was useless to try to learn.

 

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12 minutes ago, HoosierAloha said:

Yes, that is a comparison I am making. SMH

You have to go to meet the prereqs for coaching school like you do med school. Ummm..

You have to go to coaching school like you do med school. Right...

You have to get certified by a coaching board like you do to practice medicine. Oh wait...

Actually to be a coach you need a college degree.  In high school for the most part you have to be a teacher or an AD to get a job.

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18 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I don't like the sub pattern but I don't know the players and their capabilities of playing a lot of minutes.  I can say I disagree having 5 subs in at one time but that doesn't mean I can coach at a college level.

How do you know that 5 subs at one time is something that is not good?

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1 minute ago, HoosierAloha said:

How do you know that 5 subs at one time is something that is not good?

Because the subs are usually not better than starters so when we have 5 subs in against other team starters that is not good.

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11 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Actually to be a coach you need a college degree.  In high school for the most part you have to be a teacher or an AD to get a job.

Prereqs for med school >>> med school >>> board certification is SLIGHTLY different than a college degree (which I hadn't heard of this being a requirement for college coaches, link?)

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