Myth: You don’t need a go to guy to compete for Nat’l titles.

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,829]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

I believe he does that because of his current personnel; we don't have a guard that can blow past an on-ball defender, so we use the guards paired with a big as post passers.

Lander may change that equation.

Romeo was known as a driver/finisher/get fouled guy in HS.   Archie commented on his uncanny ability to drive and make things happen.  Then he stood in a corner half the time and jacked the 3 the other half.  I KNOW this isn't entirely true.  He did drive some but our offense didn't seem to feature getting him driving lanes.  Maybe the wrist injury or whatever had an impact.  Maybe he was the dribbler he thought he was, and therefore driving past small fast guys and finishing over giants was a deterrent.  I don't know, but I expected seeing Romeo driving the ball much more than he did.  

Our offense was just as stagnant and clunky last year as it has been this year.  

Lander has a different skillset in that he has good vision and can be a playmaker.  Problem with that, is we need more than just TJD to pair him up with offensively.  

[NOLA Hoosier 1,267]

5 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Romeo was known as a driver/finisher/get fouled guy in HS.   Archie commented on his uncanny ability to drive and make things happen.  Then he stood in a corner half the time and jacked the 3 the other half.  I KNOW this isn't entirely true.  He did drive some but our offense didn't seem to feature getting him driving lanes.  Maybe the wrist injury or whatever had an impact.  Maybe he was the dribbler he thought he was, and therefore driving past small fast guys and finishing over giants was a deterrent.  I don't know, but I expected seeing Romeo driving the ball much more than he did.  

He knew exactly what he was doing. He (like so many other high level recruits) had a whole host of people telling him what to do (I'm from New Albany and saw a menagerie of parents, pastors, community leaders, etc). I'm sure "don't get injured and mess up your draft prospects" was hammered into him. If there was no one-and-done, he wouldn't have gone to college at all. We'll never know for sure, but I'm with you, Lander is a completely different type of player.

[BGleas 7,880]

51 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Romeo was known as a driver/finisher/get fouled guy in HS.   Archie commented on his uncanny ability to drive and make things happen.  Then he stood in a corner half the time and jacked the 3 the other half.  I KNOW this isn't entirely true.  He did drive some but our offense didn't seem to feature getting him driving lanes.  Maybe the wrist injury or whatever had an impact.  Maybe he was the dribbler he thought he was, and therefore driving past small fast guys and finishing over giants was a deterrent.  I don't know, but I expected seeing Romeo driving the ball much more than he did.  

Our offense was just as stagnant and clunky last year as it has been this year.  

Lander has a different skillset in that he has good vision and can be a playmaker.  Problem with that, is we need more than just TJD to pair him up with offensively.  

I think some of that is a Romeo issue too though. Watch the Celtics sometime, he basically does the same exact thing. He runs right to the corner and just stands there for most possessions, rarely ever getting involved in the offense or even touching the ball. You could argue that that is what his role is with the Celtics, but when Jevonte Green plays (same role/position as Romeo) the dude is flying all over the court and getting himself involved. 

As far as the offense in general, again IMO it's a personnel issue largely. Want to hang that on Archie? Sure, I have no problem with that and somewhat agree (though I do agree with Old Friend on the upperclassmen issue), but I'm not worried the scheme at all. 

We need Hunter to develop, more guards like Lander and we need bigs that can space the floor. Our offense is clunky because we don't have great shooters and we don't have a single big that can stretch the floor. Outside of personnel additions, the biggest thing that can happen for IU heading into next season is Race specifically, and TJD as well, developing outside shots. 

Late in that Illinois game, Race had the ball at the top of the key numerous times and his man didn't even come outside of the free throw line. He just stood in the middle of the paint. The offense looks completely different if Race can confidently knock down that shot, same with TJD. All of the sudden the driving lanes are wide open for Phinisee, Durham, Lander, Leal, Galloway, Franklin, etc. 

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,829]

I think some of that is a Romeo issue too though. Watch the Celtics sometime, he basically does the same exact thing. He runs right to the corner and just stands there for most possessions, rarely ever getting involved in the offense or even touching the ball. You could argue that that is what his role is with the Celtics, but when Jevonte Green plays (same role/position as Romeo) the dude is flying all over the court and getting himself involved. 
As far as the offense in general, again IMO it's a personnel issue largely. Want to hang that on Archie? Sure, I have no problem with that and somewhat agree (though I do agree with Old Friend on the upperclassmen issue), but I'm not worried the scheme at all. 
We need Hunter to develop, more guards like Lander and we need bigs that can space the floor. Our offense is clunky because we don't have great shooters and we don't have a single big that can stretch the floor. Outside of personnel additions, the biggest thing that can happen for IU heading into next season is Race specifically, and TJD as well, developing outside shots. 
Late in that Illinois game, Race had the ball at the top of the key numerous times and his man didn't even come outside of the free throw line. He just stood in the middle of the paint. The offense looks completely different if Race can confidently knock down that shot, same with TJD. All of the sudden the driving lanes are wide open for Phinisee, Durham, Lander, Leal, Galloway, Franklin, etc. 

Agree on all. My thing is, recruit the personnel that makes your system work. Archie has yet to do that. Next year will be the most fair test, I suppose.

Part of this is what loaded is referring to.

You don’t need ISO guys per se, but you need guys that can make plays. Either in pick n roll, iso, screen always, cutting. Basketball Smart players making smart plays. Sometimes it’s a 2 man game. Sometimes it’s iso. Sometimes it’s a triangle.

As a coach my mantra often is don’t teach players plays, teach players how to play. Stuff will open up.

But yeah, the ability to hit shots is critical.


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[BGleas 7,880]

1 minute ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Agree on all. My thing is, recruit the personnel that makes your system work. Archie has yet to do that. Next year will be the most fair test, I suppose.

Part of this is what loaded is referring to.

You don’t need ISO guys per se, but you need guys that can make plays. Either in pick n roll, iso, screen always, cutting. Basketball Smart players making smart plays. Sometimes it’s a 2 man game. Sometimes it’s iso. Sometimes it’s a triangle.

As a coach my mantra often is don’t teach players plays, teach players how to play. Stuff will open up.

But yeah, the ability to hit shots is critical.


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Completely agree on all fronts. I'm a youth travel and AAU coach as well, and I don't really have any plays and actually do very few drills in practice. The majority of what we do in practice are game-based play or small-sided games to teach the kids how to play the game. Then we run various forms of motion, etc. 

Agree on the talent too. You hit on this all of the time and I agree with you, but IU needs "guys". TJD is really the only guy this roster has that does much that actually stands out. He's our only legit, elite guy. The best teams need 2-3 of those guys and then you surround them with your Phinisee's, Race Thompson's, Armaan Franklin's, etc. IU's problem is too many of the latter and not enough of the former. 

I don't know how much of an impact a reclassified Lander can have as a freshman, and I know there are some mixed reviews on his play this season, but I also know in watching his highlights (yes, I know you have to take highlight reels with a grain of salt) that from the guard position he brings moves, quickness and finishing at the rim that nobody on the roster currently has. 

Not saying he's remotely as talented as these guys, but he has those NBA type moves off the ball screen that Westbrook, Irving, Morant, etc. have. Those hesitation dribbles, inside/out dribbles, glide dribble into a stepback, etc. Again (crystal clear), I'm not saying he's as talented as those guys, but he has those moves from what I've seen, and if they translate to college quickly, we'll then have 2 legit, elite guys. 

But yes, IU does need a talent upgrade. I believe it's happening with Lander, TJD, hopefully Kauffman, and you still have Hunter's development and finally getting a full summer to focus on basketball, a wildcard like Geronimo, etc. 

While I still think Archie can improve the recruiting, I also believe long gone will be the days of guys like Devonte Green, Al Durham, Clifton Moore, etc. etc. Not to bash those guys, but IU needs and should be recruiting better than those guys, and I believe Archie is. 

 

[jk34 1,105]

3 hours ago, Chris007 said:

Another negative thread? It's sad when the same people dominate the discussions over and over and say the same things. We get it you don't like Archie. I think it's time to take a break or go someplace else. 

Said the same thing last night! Can't believe how bad it's gotten. There's people on here who've forgotten more about basketball than some of these guys claim to know. Unfortunately you don't here from them often.

[WayneFleekHoosier 46,829]

Completely agree on all fronts. I'm a youth travel and AAU coach as well, and I don't really have any plays and actually do very few drills in practice. The majority of what we do in practice are game-based play or small-sided games to teach the kids how to play the game. Then we run various forms of motion, etc. 
Agree on the talent too. You hit on this all of the time and I agree with you, but IU needs "guys". TJD is really the only guy this roster has that does much that actually stands out. He's our only legit, elite guy. The best teams need 2-3 of those guys and then you surround them with your Phinisee's, Race Thompson's, Armaan Franklin's, etc. IU's problem is too many of the latter and not enough of the former. 
I don't know how much of an impact a reclassified Lander can have as a freshman, and I know there are some mixed reviews on his play this season, but I also know in watching his highlights (yes, I know you have to take highlight reels with a grain of salt) that from the guard position he brings moves, quickness and finishing at the rim that nobody on the roster currently has. 
Not saying he's remotely as talented as these guys, but he has those NBA type moves off the ball screen that Westbrook, Irving, Morant, etc. have. Those hesitation dribbles, inside/out dribbles, glide dribble into a stepback, etc. Again (crystal clear), I'm not saying he's as talented as those guys, but he has those moves from what I've seen, and if they translate to college quickly, we'll then have 2 legit, elite guys. 
But yes, IU does need a talent upgrade. I believe it's happening with Lander, TJD, hopefully Kauffman, and you still have Hunter's development and finally getting a full summer to focus on basketball, a wildcard like Geronimo, etc. 
While I still think Archie can improve the recruiting, I also believe long gone will be the days of guys like Devonte Green, Al Durham, Clifton Moore, etc. etc. Not to bash those guys, but IU needs and should be recruiting better than those guys, and I believe Archie is. 
 

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[Stuhoo 75,769]

4 hours ago, Chris007 said:

Another negative thread? It's sad when the same people dominate the discussions over and over and say the same things. We get it you don't like Archie. I think it's time to take a break or go someplace else. 

 

1 hour ago, jk34 said:

Said the same thing last night! Can't believe how bad it's gotten. There's people on here who've forgotten more about basketball than some of these guys claim to know. Unfortunately you don't here from them often.

 

The mods have privately discussed this; we don't want to restrict posters who have a negative view, and we don't want to restrict criticism. We can't restrict redundancy because for many of us (myself included) we'd be in deep trouble with that one!

What we can do is be cognizant and thorough in making sure that program-wide negativity is in the appropriate thread, and does not infect a different thread. So, if ya wanna say our offense sux in the negativity thread, you're certainly allowed. If you want to say that in a recruiting thread it'll get moved or deleted.

Everyone has a different take on what is too restrictive, and what is too negative. We're trying to apply rules evenly.

Hope that helps.

[Loaded Chicken Sandwich 8,224]

Agree on all. My thing is, recruit the personnel that makes your system work. Archie has yet to do that. Next year will be the most fair test, I suppose.

Part of this is what loaded is referring to.

You don’t need ISO guys per se, but you need guys that can make plays. Either in pick n roll, iso, screen always, cutting. Basketball Smart players making smart plays. Sometimes it’s a 2 man game. Sometimes it’s iso. Sometimes it’s a triangle.

As a coach my mantra often is don’t teach players plays, teach players how to play. Stuff will open up.

But yeah, the ability to hit shots is critical.


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Our players do play like robots a lot of times rather than reading and reacting to what is happening in front of them. Sometimes you just have to raise your voice as a player and a leader. I wouldn’t blame Romeo for it. He could have been more demanding but he may not have wanted to step on anyone’s toes while here. Now that he’s in Boston, he gets paid to stand in the corner. That’s not really his decision. That’s where he’s supposed to be. And when you have Kemba, Brown and Tatum, that’s always going to be your job likely until you’ve played more and proven more. You have to pick your spots and last night he had a pretty strong dunk over a dude that was awesome. We need a better system offensively. No question about it. Something that fits these guys more. We can’t just play the pick n roll and hope for something or drive and kick for 3’s. This team needs a lot of player and ball movement to keep the defense on their heels. But if we are going to continue the same pick n roll play, the big not setting the screen needs to be moved outwards. This is an offense that probably would have worked Zellers sophomore year of Yogis Senior year. Where there would have been either a great shooter to put in the corner like Watford or in 15-16 when we had more wings, where we could have put Zeisloft in the corner. But what’s happening now isn’t working and is part to blame for Phinisee’s struggles.


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