TOM CREAN FIRED

[X-Hoosier 529]

Did you just insinuate that Simmons is a traditional 4? Cause yeah, he isn't anywhere close to being a traditional 4.

No. Wasn't the point of that post.

[X-Hoosier 529]

If RoJo is a turnover machine, second highest ATO ratio, what is Troy?

I agree you can win a lot off talent alone. You can also have a ton of talent on the floor who all need the ball on offense and can't defend a chair. We've seen how much that talent couldn't win against Wake (1 win in the ACC), UNLV (where talent is running for the exits), and completely blown out @Duke.

Next season we will have a lot of talent, experience, and experienced talent. I'm guessing we will see that in the starting lineup. If Hartman is asked to come off the bench I'm sure he'll come in giving his all. I don't think just because DD is a high 4* PF means he's guaranteed a starting spot. I do think it's more likely we will see returning starters back in the starting lineup, Crean seems to do that.

Well it does help to have a coach. Even with what people think of Crean.. he's a heck of a lot better than what UNLV has had coaching wise this year. Rice has had a crap ton of talent and did little with it. Except beat us. But I think Crean is still a better coach. Maui was just a joke.

[X-Hoosier 529]

Not sure I want him to return

That may be an awkward situation... Troy needs about 10 more years in college to learn not to force things and maybe get a jumpshot... but mama might say college is the debil and he is good enough to go pro. And mama is always right.

[X-Hoosier 529]

I would take a CWat at the 4 everyday of the week.

Watford was one of my favorite players. Not just because of the shot to beat UK... dude was money from the wing.

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

I don't think Hartman is truly needed on the floor. He almost cancels himself out at times. He doesn't score much. He'll spot when open. He hustles as much as his athleticism will allow him. He turns the ball over quite often for not really handling the ball. He's not a good defender but that deals more with his athleticism. He knows what to do on defense.. but he doesn't have the athleticism or length to do it exact. It'd be nice if we could join Hartman and Williams together... that'd really help.

 

You don't want to start Hartman because he can't defend and turns it over but want to start Williams...?

 

Hartman:

1.6 assist/game to 1.1 turnovers/game  1.45 ATO

 

Williams:

2.0 assists/game to 2.8 turnovers/game 0.71 ATO

 

As for defense, go back and watch some of the B1G games.  You'll notice Hartman actually in position to defend.  Hartman's issue on defense, besides his lack of athleticism, is over helping.  He covers for Williams on this sometimes when Williams loses focus.  Williams issue is he's often out of position because he "wanders" both mentally and physically.  He'll often give opponents several wide open looks because he's just not paying attention.  He has the athleticism but lacks basketball IQ and focus. 

 

Hartman plays his role in the starting lineup as he's asked to do.

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

Watford was one of my favorite players. Not just because of the shot to beat UK... dude was money from the wing.

Really hoping he is talking us up to his bro

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

Well it does help to have a coach. Even with what people think of Crean.. he's a heck of a lot better than what UNLV has had coaching wise this year. Rice has had a crap ton of talent and did little with it. Except beat us. But I think Crean is still a better coach. Maui was just a joke.

 

Agree on coach but you don't address any of the chemistry issues.  When Yogi, JBJ, and Troy all need the ball on offense there's an issue.  RoJo is basically a Hartman as a guard.  He will do what's asked of him and not force things.  You need those players on your team, starting or coming off the bench, to win.  I'd be shocked if RoJo isn't starting as a junior.

[X-Hoosier 529]

You don't want to start Hartman because he can't defend and turns it over but want to start Williams...?

Hartman:
1.6 assist/game to 1.1 turnovers/game 1.45 ATO

Williams:
2.0 assists/game to 2.8 turnovers/game 0.71 ATO

As for defense, go back and watch some of the B1G games. You'll notice Hartman actually in position to defend. Hartman's issue on defense, besides his lack of athleticism, is over helping. He covers for Williams on this sometimes when Williams loses focus. Williams issue is he's often out of position because he "wanders" both mentally and physically. He'll often give opponents several wide open looks because he's just not paying attention. He has the athleticism but lacks basketball IQ and focus.

Hartman plays his role in the starting lineup as he's asked to do.

I don't WANT to start Williams. But there is more of a reason to start him over Hartman if need be. If Bryant leaves and Williams comes back then we have DD, Williams and OG. If Bryant and Williams come back then we could have Bryant, DD and Williams. With Juwan, OG and Hartman off the bench.

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

Interesting, I see it differently but I guess we'll see when next season starts.

[BtownBanner6 1,298]

Really hoping he is talking us up to his bro

C-Wat was always real close to Crean all those guys were, if Creans here T-Wat will come if Creans not I have my doubts.

[X-Hoosier 529]

Agree on coach but you don't address any of the chemistry issues. When Yogi, JBJ, and Troy all need the ball on offense there's an issue. RoJo is basically a Hartman as a guard. He will do what's asked of him and not force things. You need those players on your team, starting or coming off the bench, to win. I'd be shocked if RoJo isn't starting as a junior.

I wouldn't call RJ a Hartman. He does force things. That's why he turns it over like he does. It is like an epidemic on our team. Too often Yogi, Troy, RJ and JBJ tried forcing things. Same can be said with Bryant. I really don't know how Hartman turns it over as much as he does. Or turns it over at all. He really never needs to dribble.

[HoosierAloha 30,024]

I wouldn't call RJ a Hartman. He does force things. That's why he turns it over like he does. It is like an epidemic on our team. Too often Yogi, Troy, RJ and JBJ tried forcing things. Same can be said with Bryant. I really don't know how Hartman turns it over as much as he does. Or turns it over at all. He really never needs to dribble.

 

RoJo doesn't force things nearly as much as Yogi, JBJ, or Troy.  He does go to the rim without a plan sometimes though.  Hartman does need to dribble sometimes.  He's more than a spot up shooter and keeps defenses honest.  He's had some really nice takes to the rim where he finishes with his off hand, under control.  Hartman's turned it over 17 times in B1G play while Troy has turned it over 38 times.  Hartman actually feeds the post though.  A lot of Troy's "layups" are basically turnovers because they have little chance of going in.

[Uspshoosier 45,024]

Well it does help to have a coach. Even with what people think of Crean.. he's a heck of a lot better than what UNLV has had coaching wise this year. Rice has had a crap ton of talent and did little with it. Except beat us. But I think Crean is still a better coach. Maui was just a joke.

they beat Oregon on neutral court as well

[mdn82 25,510]

I don't think Hartman is truly needed on the floor. He almost cancels himself out at times. He doesn't score much. He'll spot when open. He hustles as much as his athleticism will allow him. He turns the ball over quite often for not really handling the ball. He's not a good defender but that deals more with his athleticism. He knows what to do on defense.. but he doesn't have the athleticism or length to do it exact. It'd be nice if we could join Hartman and Williams together... that'd really help.

Not sure what you are watching but you are the first I have seen these types of comments about. I would have to say I completely disagree with your assessment of our current and future situation. Hopefully you will soon realize that fundamentals and intelligence is actually better than supreme talent most times at the college level. Most of the people you listed earlier will make excellent professionals. Some are solid college players. But time and time again we are proven that glue guys like Hartman are the key to winning at this level. I know you will have a retort for that but explain to me how the most talented team of your lifetime couldn't beat team with a fraction of the talent in the tournament?

[X-Hoosier 529]

Not sure what you are watching but you are the first I have seen these types of comments about. I would have to say I completely disagree with your assessment of our current and future situation. Hopefully you will soon realize that fundamentals and intelligence is actually better than supreme talent most times at the college level. Most of the people you listed earlier will make excellent professionals. Some are solid college players. But time and time again we are proven that glue guys like Hartman are the key to winning at this level. I know you will have a retort for that but explain to me how the most talented team of your lifetime couldn't beat team with a fraction of the talent in the tournament?

Things happen. Especially in the tourney. I shouldn't have said Hartman is needed. He is. But not in the starting lineup if we have a better piece. UK's problem last year was Cal being loyal. He was very loyal to the twins. I'd say he learned from that.

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

The final 5 minutes or so of the Purdue game really exemplifies my problems with Crean.  The team was falling apart and he didn't really do anything to stop it.  Call some time outs and kill their momentum.  Tell them to quit jacking shots as soon as possible.  Stop fouling them when they are going to hit the 2 anyway and for gods sake stop giving them semi or completely open looks at 3 pointers.  Don't just stand there and let them flounder. 

[FortWayneHoosier 5,910]

The final 5 minutes or so of the Purdue game really exemplifies my problems with Crean. The team was falling apart and he didn't really do anything to stop it. Call some time outs and kill their momentum. Tell them to quit jacking shots as soon as possible. Stop fouling them when they are going to hit the 2 anyway and for gods sake stop giving them semi or completely open looks at 3 pointers. Don't just stand there and let them flounder.

Big win and you still comment on this thread wow

[chitown hoosier 743]

Well he gotta stay consistent right.

[Brass Cannon 24,222]

Big win and you still comment on this thread wow

 

Did you watch the final 5 minutes?

[FortWayneHoosier 5,910]

Ya I did but you know what we won who cares