Indiana won't be Indiana until it wants to be Indiana

[Magnanimous 4,608]

Because this is Indiana and tournament results matter more than anything and those 2 wins got us a third of the way through the tourney?

 

One seeds are given gimme-paths the first two rounds. Neither of those wins were impressive and they were completely expected.

[TheStillman 991]

One seeds are given gimme-paths the first two rounds. Neither of those wins were impressive and they were completely expected.

They still were an accomplishment. My point is that we can't talk about how the tournament is really all that matters than discount everything that happens in first two rounds.

1 seeds lose that 8-9 game very frequently

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

Do we have a losing 2nd half record? Everyone is citing this but even last night we did better in the 2nd half than the 1st.

Read my previous post. We were down by 8 at half and lost by 12 so we still lost the 2nd half. I think everyone will agree it could have been alot worse than 4 points if Bo would have wanted it to be.

[TheStillman 991]

Read my previous post. We were down by 8 at half and lost by 12 so we still lost the 2nd half. I think everyone will agree it could have been alot worse than 4 points if Bo would have wanted it to be.

I understood your post. I'm asking what our actual 2nd half record is and how much worse is it than our actual record.

I think even that analysis isn't quite complete and the differential between between first and second half is more informative. MSU game is a great example. We got smoked in first half but came out strong and only lost by 1 in second half. That matters to me and I think it matters when analyzing if we're a worse second half team.

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

They still were an accomplishment. My point is that we can't talk about how the tournament is really all that matters than discount everything that happens in first two rounds.

1 seeds lose that 8-9 game very frequently

Tournament shouldn't be the only thing that matters. I give TC all the credit in the world for taking care of business during reg season to get that #1 seed. In turn that makes your path thru tourney easier. So a SW16 run as a #1 seed is not near as impressive or thrilling for the fan base as a SW16 run for a #4,#5 or #6 seed.

 

This could be an arguement for Mike Davis being a better coach as well (if somebody wanted to do that). He made his run with a #5 seed all the way to the tournament. Beating teams like Utah, Oklahoma and Duke along the way.

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

I understood your post. I'm asking what our actual 2nd half record is and how much worse is it than our actual record.

I think even that analysis isn't quite complete and the differential between between first and second half is more informative. MSU game is a great example. We got smoked in first half but came out strong and only lost by 1 in second half. That matters to me and I think it matters when analyzing if we're a worse second half team.

1 point loss is definitely better than a 30 point loss but it is still a loss. I posted earlier that if you take away all of our cupcake games (so only using our conference games, +EW, Pitt, UofL, SMU, Butler & Gtown) we have been outscored in 2nd half of 12 of 15 of those games. That is pretty alarming if you ask me.

[TheStillman 991]

Tournament shouldn't be the only thing that matters. I give TC all the credit in the world for taking care of business during reg season to get that #1 seed. In turn that makes your path thru tourney easier. So a SW16 run as a #1 seed is not near as impressive or thrilling for the fan base as a SW16 run for a #4,#5 or #6 seed.

This could be an arguement for Mike Davis being a better coach as well (if somebody wanted to do that). He made his run with a #5 seed all the way to the tournament. Beating teams like Utah, Oklahoma and Duke along the way.

I agree tournament should not be only thing that matters. My posts have somewhat been taking aim at those who say the entire 2012-13 season was for nothing because of the tournament loss. The outright B1G title matters when we haven't accomplished that in 20 years. It's never the final goal but to lose sight of where we have been so significantly that an accomplishment like that is so diminished is unfair in my opinion.

Personally I think the tournament is a crapshoot and basing how good a coach is off a run in tournament is foolish. Just ask USC fans with the Enfield hire.

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

I agree tournament should not be only thing that matters. My posts have somewhat been taking aim at those who say the entire 2012-13 season was for nothing because of the tournament loss. The outright B1G title matters when we haven't accomplished that in 20 years. It's never the final goal but to lose sight of where we have been so significantly that an accomplishment like that is so diminished is unfair in my opinion.

Personally I think the tournament is a crapshoot and basing how good a coach is off a run in tournament is foolish. Just ask USC fans with the Enfield hire.

Haha good example.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

In what world do second half scores = how good a coach is?

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

In what world do second half scores = how good a coach is?

Aparently not in your world. To some it could possibly show how good/bad a coach is with in-game adjustments and strategy. To others it is just a number because our Coach will always be the best!!!

[TheStillman 991]

It's an interesting stat but it's also a very noisy stat. To make causal conclusions from that stat seems like a fallacy. Would like to read some of the advanced analytics on second half performance. I would guess it is not overly informative stat to follow.

[shortspacequickness 1,034]

Aparently not in your world. To some it could possibly show how good/bad a coach is with in-game adjustments and strategy. To others it is just a number because our Coach will always be the best!!!

There's correlation but nothing is as absolute as some say. If it were first halves, you'd complain about that too.

[MikeRoberts 7,033]

Tell Jordan Hulls the S16 wasn't an accomplishment. You wouldn't say it.

I'll tell his brother that when he moves to Chicago with his family next month.

[KingPG21 6,587]

Ask Hulls about Crean. You'd learn a little something.

Lol, asking former players about coaches, like that is a valid argument

[TheStillman 991]

Lol, asking former players about coaches, like that is a valid argument

The sad thing is both sides of the Crean argument used the "ask so and so about coach" as if it is valid in the debate.

[Basketball4iU 2,006]

You mean when Dakich was repeatedly saying Crean is doing, and I quote, "a masterful job this season."

Not defending him, but Dakich was only attacking Crean's subs and rightfully so.

Well after his debacle in Iowa it seemed he was choosing his words wisely and what I know from him .. There was some fluff there last night

[MikeRoberts 7,033]

Do we have a losing 2nd half record? Everyone is citing this but even last night we did better in the 2nd half than the 1st.

yes, we do. It's fact. I broke it out over the course of Crean's past 3 years and didn't go back any further due to time. We have a losing record in the second halves of games this year and have performed worse in the second halves in the previous seasons as well

We are also 0-5 when losing the first half. So if we get down...

[Basketball4iU 2,006]

Ask Hulls about Crean. You'd learn a little something.

Umm already had that discussion and I won't throw Jordy under the bus ...but you can get my drift

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

There's correlation but nothing is as absolute as some say. If it were first halves, you'd complain about that too.

Everytime someone has an opinion on here you say nothing is "Absolute" or "relevant" But if someone doesn't agree with one of your opinions then it is "embarrassing" or "you can't take this seriously"

 

Can't figure out if you're Tom Crean, Fred Glass or a Middle school student?

[TheStillman 991]

yes, we do. It's fact. I broke it out over the course of Crean's past 3 years and didn't go back any further due to time. We have a losing record in the second halves of games this year and have performed worse in the second halves in the previous seasons as well

It is interesting to look at and I missed the post where you broke down game by game.

I still think looking just at the second half score is an incomplete analysis. Half-over-half change matters. The data gets noisy as well when looking at blowouts in either direction (won or loss) or close games when foul shooting comes into play at end. These all factor into the score but don't fully reflect what a coach did or did not do at halftime.

For example, there could be a game where team A is down 8 at half and come back to take lead at some point then in final minute end up down 3. After fouling Team B to extend the game Team A ends up losing by 9. So Team A lost the second half by 1. Does that really say anything about a coaches halftime adjustments? By your analysis the coach didn't adjust at half but in fact they took the lead and lost in final minutes.