JaQuan Lyle off the board

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,090]

Mechanics??? Are u kidding? Agree to disagree. Go watch last 5-10 games that season and look carefully at how we were defended.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,090]

One further note to support my point: 2012-13 end of year biggest games

Yogis 3 point shooting

OSU loss on home court.......0-1
Michigan win away to win BIG.......0-0
Wisconsin loss in BIG tourney.......0-0
Narrow temple win in NCAA.........0-0
Syracuse smoking in NCAA.........0-0

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

One further note to support my point: 2012-13 end of year biggest games

Yogis 3 point shooting

OSU loss on home court.......0-1
Michigan win away to win BIG.......0-0
Wisconsin loss in BIG tourney.......0-0
Narrow temple win in NCAA.........0-0
Syracuse smoking in NCAA.........0-0

He shot 30% from 3 in a year we had Jordy shooting 44%, Watford shooting 48%, and Oladipo shooting 44% from 3. If you're the coach, why are you letting the freshman who is struggling to transition his shot to the college level shoot when you have three guys hitting 44% or better from 3? Yogi also only shot 40% from the field. 3 guys shot better from 3 PT land than he did from 2. You're blaming the wrong thing here.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,090]

He shot 30% from 3 in a year we had Jordy shooting 44%, Watford shooting 48%, and Oladipo shooting 44% from 3. If you're the coach, why are you letting the freshman who is struggling to transition his shot to the college level shoot when you have three guys hitting 44% or better from 3? Yogi also only shot 40% from the field. 3 guys shot better from 3 PT land than he did from 2. You're blaming the wrong thing here.

Watch the games. Those guys who shot better % were covered out tight, face to face beyond the arc. Yogi stood at top of the key with no defenders within 5 feet.

All I'm saying is the sagging D on Yogi messed us up offensively the end of the season. No one else could get open looks and Yogi wouldn't shoot it. He got no respect and maybe he shouldn't have but either Crean has to adjust to that D, let Yogi shoot, or put in a player that would command the opposing teams respect.

I would have let Yogi fire a few. If he hits 1 or 2, things open back up. He took 1 three pointer in our biggest 5 games.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Watch the games. Those guys who shot better % were covered out tight, face to face beyond the arc. Yogi stood at top of the key with no defenders within 5 feet.

All I'm saying is the sagging D on Yogi messed us up offensively the end of the season. No one else could get open looks and Yogi wouldn't shoot it. He got no respect and maybe he shouldn't have but either Crean has to adjust to that D, let Yogi shoot, or put in a player that would command the opposing teams respect.

I would have let Yogi fire a few. If he hits 1 or 2, things open back up. He took 1 three pointer in our biggest 5 games.

I watched all the games when they happened. I gave you stats backing up why Yogi's shooting was not going to save us. He wasn't shooting well when he did shoot, open or not. He was off his freshman year. Made a great off season adjustment, and looked like that lethal shooter from high school again. Crean not letting Yogi, who struggled with his shooting, pull the trigger in our biggest games was not why we fell short that season.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,090]

I watched all the games when they happened. I gave you stats backing up why Yogi's shooting was not going to save us. He wasn't shooting well when he did shoot, open or not. He was off his freshman year. Made a great off season adjustment, and looked like that lethal shooter from high school again. Crean not letting Yogi, who struggled with his shooting, pull the trigger in our biggest games was not why we fell short that season.

again, it's not that simple. Shooting shots makes defenders respect and guard you. This spreads the court, opening up lanes, etc... He doesn't have to hit 40% to do this. If he hits 1 or 2 in a game the sagging stops. The OVERALL offensive attack changes.

It's like a post player who can't shoot outside 5 feet. Nobody has to guard him. Allows clogging/doubling etc.

Are u a basketball player, or have you ever been a basketball player?

It's not about comparing percentages. It's about the flow of the game and taking what is given to you.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

again, it's not that simple. Shooting shots makes defenders respect and guard you. This spreads the court, opening up lanes, etc... He doesn't have to hit 40% to do this. If he hits 1 or 2 in a game the sagging stops. The OVERALL offensive attack changes.

It's like a post player who can't shoot outside 5 feet. Nobody has to guard him. Allows clogging/doubling etc.

Are u a basketball player, or have you ever been a basketball player?

It's not about comparing percentages. It's about the flow of the game and taking what is given to you.

I understand that. But Yogi was much better taking the drive when others were sagging, and dishing it out when he drew the double team. There were much more reliable options than him. He averaged over 4 assists per game cuz of this.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,090]

If you want to talk percentages, let's look into the other players FG troubles due to the sagging D and doubling. Yogis wide open 3 at 30% may be a much better option than another players contested attempt. And even if it's not, hitting just 1 3 pointer would have opened other things up.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

If you want to talk percentages, let's look into the other players FG troubles due to the sagging D and doubling. Yogis wide open 3 at 30% may be a much better option than another players contested attempt. And even if it's not, hitting just 1 3 pointer would have opened other things up.

The rest of the starters most definitely did not struggle with shooting. Go check out their FG%s...

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,090]

The rest of the starters most definitely did not struggle with shooting. Go check out their FG%s...

at the end of the season?? Sure we did. We didn't hit 60 against Temple or Syracuse. We struggled mightily to end that season. I am giving you my opinion as a part of the reason why that occurred. If you have a better reason for our offensive struggles that's fine but as I watched it was clear to me the sagging D killed our spacing, movement, and offensive flow.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

at the end of the season?? Sure we did. We didn't hit 60 against Temple or Syracuse. We struggled mightily to end that season. I am giving you my opinion as a part of the reason why that occurred. If you have a better reason for our offensive struggles that's fine but as I watched it was clear to me the sagging D killed our spacing, movement, and offensive flow.

so the last two games? I'll have to go back and watch.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,090]

Most obvious examples, but struggles started about 10 games out give or take. Wisconsin in BIG tourney a perfect example too.

[bnkepner 1,509]

The wheels were falling off during the last stretch of that season. 

[Hutch89 2,946]

If you want to talk percentages, let's look into the other players FG troubles due to the sagging D and doubling. Yogis wide open 3 at 30% may be a much better option than another players contested attempt. And even if it's not, hitting just 1 3 pointer would have opened other things up.

 

True, but if Yogi took a few shots and missed (which his 3PT% suggests was the case multiple times), then the defenders would just keep sagging, let Yogi shoot, and let IU come away from their possession without any points.  Obviously if we had Sophomore-style Yogi at point that year with Vic, Zeller, Hulls, Etc.  then it would have been something special.   I just don't think it all boils down to Yogi not attempting 3s, his % just wasn't good enough for him to throw many up at that time with so many other options. 

[Naturalhoosier 15,475]

Lol. Wayne, #1. That was fun to read. I think you both are right to a degree and the answer lies somewhere in the middle!!!!

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

True, but if Yogi took a few shots and missed (which his 3PT% suggests was the case multiple times), then the defenders would just keep sagging, let Yogi shoot, and let IU come away from their possession without any points.  Obviously if we had Sophomore-style Yogi at point that year with Vic, Zeller, Hulls, Etc.  then it would have been something special.   I just don't think it all boils down to Yogi not attempting 3s, his % just wasn't good enough for him to throw many up at that time with so many other options. 

Holy crap, sophomore Yogi on that team........... Obviously his scoring still would have been down, but.....

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Lol. Wayne, #1. That was fun to read. I think you both are right to a degree and the answer lies somewhere in the middle!!!!

Haha yeah good discussion Wayne's World. Wish we could go back and replay your theory in real time, with sophomore Yogi. Maybe we would have broken Cuse's zone.

[WayneFleekHoosier 51,090]

Haha yeah good discussion Wayne's World. Wish we could go back and replay your theory in real time, with sophomore Yogi. Maybe we would have broken Cuse's zone.

Thanks, fun debate. I can see both sides really but I remember constantly seeing that sagging D against us to end the year and Yogi wouldn't shoot. Either way it was a detriment. I'll take 30% 3's over the contested junk we were forcing.

And yes, with a sophomore Yogi who had greater reins and confidence, we might have had a banner.

[Uwe Robb 1,072]

Yogi was always a good shooter in HS. He did struggle his Freshman year for sure, but let him shoot his way out of it earlier in the season....

He was coached not to shoot and opposing D's sagged off him like crazy, packing the middle on Zeller and clogging Oladipo drives. In my estimation that was maybe the biggest general coaching blunder of that season. THAT is why we struggled late that season because Yogi stopped shooting the long ball and no one guarded him. Teams adjusted, we didn't.

May sound crazy, but I would contribute Yogi going from skinny H.S. kid to a Freshmen with Popeye arms for his Freshmen year struggles. The guy had to get used to firing off treys with those new cannons he developed.

[Alabaster Thunder 306]

Yogi was advised not to shoot 3's by Crean, his role was a facilitator. A major thorn in the side of that team was that Crean was still having 2.5-3 hour practices the days before games at the end of the season (for reference, Knight would do ~45 minute walk throughs the day before tourney games because he wanted his team to be rested). Zeller said the entire team was exhausted for the Temple and Syracuse games.