Devil's Advocate - Tom Crean

[BlueDevil 8,799]

A similar story that can kind of relate to this is UNC going to the NIT in 2010 a year after winning the national title.

[JSHoosier 20,508]

Well Bobby never had IU in the Final Four every year either.  But his teams ran in rather predictable cycles of building towards a championship every 5-6 years until Calbert graduated, after that it kind of fell apart. 

 

Tom's problems are the following, not in any particular order:

• He isn't RMK.
• His first championship caliber team lost in the Sweet 16.  Upsets happen but I'm just speaking from the perspective of the collective fanbase in that the only times RMK had a great team and did not win it, there was at least one key injury.  Scott May in 1975, Alan Henderson in 1993.  The 1992 team got hosed by Ted Valentine but I digress. 
• The Movement turned into a bowl movement.

Honestly as long as this IU team won 20 games and made the NCAA tournament, I don't think you would see as much criticism.  But here we are with a team that is perhaps not even a sure NIT bet at this point.  I think that is a shock to the senses and while it is true not every season can be a great one, to drop back down to this kind of a level after being "back" well people aren't going to handle that very well. 

RMK also took a break from recruiting because he wanted to go fishing, when he started recruiting again he got the 2002 team.  We weren't the IU we were used to but still most years had 20 wins, upper level B1G finish and make the NCAA tournament.

[bronkonagurski 894]

A similar story that can kind of relate to this is UNC going to the NIT in 2010 a year after winning the national title.

 

UK did the same thing, won a title then went to the NIT.  But of course winning that ring buys a lot more breathing room.  ;)

 

If I'm playing the role of Crean's DA then obviously you point out what we lost including two early NBA departures.  In addition, Yogi & Will spending time overseas during the summer could have possibly cost us in terms of leadership back home in Bloomington to get the rest of the team whipped into shape.  '

 

As Crean's DA I would say look, this team isn't buying in and isn't working hard enough.  His weird sub patterns along with benching Hollowell are part of the process of correcting that.  Once the season is over, the strong shall stay and the weak shall leave.  Get these guys working hard over the summer and improving, add some shooters and you have a better team.  And if Noah stays, all the better.

 

Thus ends my attempt at complying with the premise of this thread.  :)

[bronkonagurski 894]

RMK also took a break from recruiting because he wanted to go fishing, when he started recruiting again he got the 2002 team.  We weren't the IU we were used to but still most years had 20 wins, upper level B1G finish and make the NCAA tournament.

 

I'm fully aware of that and it doesn't affect the point I was trying to make.  It isn't that Crean needs to make the Final Four every year, it is the need for an underlying baseline of consistency.  I witnessed RMK's final years in person. 

[JSHoosier 20,508]

I'm fully aware of that and it doesn't affect the point I was trying to make.  It isn't that Crean needs to make the Final Four every year, it is the need for an underlying baseline of consistency.  I witnessed RMK's final years in person. 

I know.  I'm just pointing out that even if years that were bad by our history, our baseline was still pretty respectable.

[JaybobHoosier 11,939]

[quote name="bronkonagurski" post="40122" timestamp="1392601435"]Well Bobby never had IU in the Final Four every year either. But his teams ran in rather predictable cycles of building towards a championship every 5-6 years until Calbert graduated, after that it kind of fell apart.

Tom's problems are the following, not in any particular order:[list]
[*]He isn't RMK.
[*]His first championship caliber team lost in the Sweet 16. Upsets happen but I'm just speaking from the perspective of the collective fanbase in that the only times RMK had a great team and did not win it, there was at least one key injury. Scott May in 1975, Alan Henderson in 1993. The 1992 team got hosed by Ted Valentine but I digress.
[*]The Movement turned into a bowl movement.
[/list]
Honestly as long as this IU team won 20 games and made the NCAA tournament, I don't think you would see as much criticism. But here we are with a team that is perhaps not even a sure NIT bet at this point. I think that is a shock to the senses and while it is true not every season can be a great one, to drop back down to this kind of a level after being "back" well people aren't going to handle that very well. [/quote]

Very well said. I agree completely. However, I just wish the constant complaining and negativity would stop. Yes, we are struggling and coach isn't doing a good job, but the board is becoming one big complain fest.

Take a step back, and let's support the Hoosiers. That's the reason why we are here. Go Hoosiers!!!

Sent from my DROID4 using BtownBanners mobile app

[bronkonagurski 894]

Very well said. I agree completely. However, I just wish the constant complaining and negativity would stop. Yes, we are struggling and coach isn't doing a good job, but the board is becoming one big complain fest.

Take a step back, and let's support the Hoosiers. That's the reason why we are here. Go Hoosiers!!!

Sent from my DROID4 using BtownBanners mobile app

 

Look, I grow weary of it too.  The negativity has infested every IU message board that I read.  I've honestly considered just taking a break from the boards.  But for whatever reason, I can't do it.  I keep coming back.  People are entitled to their opinions and I realize there is a lot of venting going on and that is fine, I'm not suggesting that I don't value their sense of frustration.  I understand it, I am frustrated with the team too.

 

Speaking of supporting the team, I never stop.  My buddy at work can vouch for me, I've always talked about IU basketball no matter the situation.  Those first three years under Crean, I'd discuss each game.  A lot of people where I work barely acknowledged IU hoops until Cody's freshman year.  Then suddenly hey, everyone is an IU hoops fan again!  Well, I never left that wagon and I'll never stop doing so.  Same with IU football, I talk about the team all the time.  Even though they pull the Charlie Brown/Lucy routine on me most of the time. 

 

Getting back on point, no matter what anyone thinks Tom definitely will have the opportunity to get the train back on the tracks.  You can't tell me he isn't extremely frustrated too.  The guy cares and works hard.  We may not agree with everything he does but such is life.  It is a results oriented business.  Get the right result, people overlook your flaws.  Get the wrong result, every flaw is picked open like a festering scab.  Adversity can make you or break you.  I know that from personal experience.  I don't think Tom Crean is going to give up the fight easily.  One year from now, we'll have a much better idea about how our coach and our program has been able to handle and hopefully overcome a rough season.  Coach Crean's own season on the brink.  I'm definitely not giving up on him yet.

[Woodsonshump 305]

Very well said. I agree completely. However, I just wish the constant complaining and negativity would stop. Yes, we are struggling and coach isn't doing a good job, but the board is becoming one big complain fest.

Take a step back, and let's support the Hoosiers. That's the reason why we are here. Go Hoosiers!!!

Sent from my DROID4 using BtownBanners mobile app

To be honest, and I'm really not trying to bash here, but on any given message board it is the moderators who truly set the tone for the board.  If they allow the constant complaining and negativity, then that is the tone the board will take.  If the moderators refuse to allow that tone, then guess what?  You don't have to read it, because you've controlled it through moderation.

[Indymike7 35]

Very well said. I agree completely. However, I just wish the constant complaining and negativity would stop. Yes, we are struggling and coach isn't doing a good job, but the board is becoming one big complain fest.

Take a step back, and let's support the Hoosiers. That's the reason why we are here. Go Hoosiers!!!

Sent from my DROID4 using BtownBanners mobile app

Sounds to me like you are complaining about the complainers........

[JaybobHoosier 11,939]

[quote name="hoosierfan84" post="40216" timestamp="1392641894"]To be honest, and I'm really not trying to bash here, but on any given message board it is the moderators who truly set the tone for the board. If they allow the constant complaining and negativity, then that is the tone the board will take. If the moderators refuse to allow that tone, then guess what? You don't have to read it, because you've controlled it through moderation.[/quote]

That is an awesome point you bring up. Problem is, you can't just censor someone's opinions. We are cracking down on the constant negativity, and trying to approve on that. I told a few posters how I've failed as a Mod because I haven't been able to be on here much. Hoping to get that changed, and start contributing more to my team!

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[JaybobHoosier 11,939]

[quote name="Indymike7" post="40221" timestamp="1392645374"]Sounds to me like you are complaining about the complainers........[/quote]

Hey now, that's not fair :) lol.

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[JaybobHoosier 11,939]

[quote name="bronkonagurski" post="40213" timestamp="1392629050"]Look, I grow weary of it too. The negativity has infested every IU message board that I read. I've honestly considered just taking a break from the boards. But for whatever reason, I can't do it. I keep coming back. People are entitled to their opinions and I realize there is a lot of venting going on and that is fine, I'm not suggesting that I don't value their sense of frustration. I understand it, I am frustrated with the team too.

Speaking of supporting the team, I never stop. My buddy at work can vouch for me, I've always talked about IU basketball no matter the situation. Those first three years under Crean, I'd discuss each game. A lot of people where I work barely acknowledged IU hoops until Cody's freshman year. Then suddenly hey, everyone is an IU hoops fan again! Well, I never left that wagon and I'll never stop doing so. Same with IU football, I talk about the team all the time. Even though they pull the Charlie Brown/Lucy routine on me most of the time.

Getting back on point, no matter what anyone thinks Tom definitely will have the opportunity to get the train back on the tracks. You can't tell me he isn't extremely frustrated too. The guy cares and works hard. We may not agree with everything he does but such is life. It is a results oriented business. Get the right result, people overlook your flaws. Get the wrong result, every flaw is picked open like a festering scab. Adversity can make you or break you. I know that from personal experience. I don't think Tom Crean is going to give up the fight easily. One year from now, we'll have a much better idea about how our coach and our program has been able to handle and hopefully overcome a rough season. Coach Crean's own season on the brink. I'm definitely not giving up on him yet.[/quote]

Great post Bronk (I just threw up a little in my mouth for saying that). Everyone is entitled to their opinions, just the frustrating part is when people make 75% of their posts trying to get digs on coach or the players, and that it's always repetitive.

Season has been a stinker so far, but we all knew that was a possibility. Hope the team starts turning it around and build some positive things going into next season.

Sent from my DROID4 using BtownBanners mobile app

[Woodsonshump 305]

That is an awesome point you bring up. Problem is, you can't just censor someone's opinions. We are cracking down on the constant negativity, and trying to approve on that. I told a few posters how I've failed as a Mod because I haven't been able to be on here much. Hoping to get that changed, and start contributing more to my team!

Sent from my DROID4 using BtownBanners mobile app

No doubt, you're right on that, and this is probably the best board as far as keeping things in check.  I was referring more to the examples you see on other sites, one of which I counted 14 different threads on firing CTC, all titled differently yet saying the same thing.  That's a moderator issue if there ever was one.  

 

I'm fine with people voicing their opinions, and when you start getting opinions that all say the same thing, then stick them into one thread so it all stays together and doesn't corrupt the rest of the board for those who don't share the negativity.

[JaybobHoosier 11,939]

No doubt, you're right on that, and this is probably the best board as far as keeping things in check.  I was referring more to the examples you see on other sites, one of which I counted 14 different threads on firing CTC, all titled differently yet saying the same thing.  That's a moderator issue if there ever was one.  

 

I'm fine with people voicing their opinions, and when you start getting opinions that all say the same thing, then stick them into one thread so it all stays together and doesn't corrupt the rest of the board for those who don't share the negativity.

 

Very well said! I don't take anything personal, and I'm always open for criticism....... Bronk...... cough cough.... lol. We want everyone to have a voice, but be respectful about it. Don't litter the board with opinions because 'you' think they are better and have to be heard. Just not how to go about it.

[Rayl 527]

Very well said! I don't take anything personal, and I'm always open for criticism....... Bronk...... cough cough.... lol. We want everyone to have a voice, but be respectful about it. Don't litter the board with opinions because 'you' think they are better and have to be heard. Just not how to go about it.

 

But what if my opinions really are better, like objectively so? :devil:

[JaybobHoosier 11,939]

But what if my opinions really are better, like objectively so? :devil:

 

I will just ban you :P lol. Keep it civil, and we are all good!

[OliviaPope40 6,639]

I will just ban you :P lol. Keep it civil, and we are all good!

Jaybob you're scaring people with the candy stripped panties. 

[Woodsonshump 305]

But what if my opinions really are better, like objectively so? :devil:

Objectivity is always highly subjective when you get right down to it.  Especially in cases like this.  One guys objectivity is another guys subjectivity.

[HoosierReb01 7,511]

To be honest, and I'm really not trying to bash here, but on any given message board it is the moderators who truly set the tone for the board.  If they allow the constant complaining and negativity, then that is the tone the board will take.  If the moderators refuse to allow that tone, then guess what?  You don't have to read it, because you've controlled it through moderation.

Yeah, pretty much what Jayboob said. There is no honest discussion if there is no negativity and complaining, but if thats all you have, then its a discussion going nowhere. Your point on keeping some topics inside the threads created for them is noted, also. Particularly trying to keep the game threads as a actual discussion of the game, with a lot of banter, and leaving the agenda items to the appropriate threads. We had mixed success in the last thread. It was alright in the first half, and fell apart when Purdue put the lead over 20! Personally, I expect there to always be some measure of negativity and complaining, even when things are going well. I would just like to see the excesses tempered.