IU’s basketball culture is dead (and the case for why our next coach should be given 6+ seasons)

[Home Jersey]

I'm not debating the Tom Crean diehards today. You guys can have at it about our coach from 10 years ago and how that somehow relates to the program today. 

[Home Jersey]

Just now, AH1971 said:

If Tom Crean went 15-57 in the same time at IU then by all means fire him and don’t let him back on campus. But we fired him after winning 2 B10 titles and reaching the S16 three different times in a six year span.

DELUSIONAL

"If you just ignore the inconvenient realities, my narrative makes perfect sense!!" 

Gee, where have we heard this from before with you, AH? 

[Five Prime]

Just now, Home Jersey said:

I'm not debating the Tom Crean diehards today. You guys can have at it about our coach from 10 years ago and how that somehow relates to the program today. 

I am definitely not a diehard TC fan, but if you look at the data, we actually havr been worse without him. And this simply supports the notion that "its more than coaching"

[AH1971]

2 minutes ago, Pagoda said:

It’s extremely relevant.  And it 100% your destroys your argument.

15-57 in conference… ouch.

It’s exactly why no coach worth a salt will touch this job.

[Home Jersey]

Just now, Five Prime said:

I am definitely not a diehard TC fan, but if you look at the data, we actually havr been worse without him. And this simply supports the notion that "its more than coaching"

How? 

[Five Prime]

We have a fan base living in the 90s, an inept administration, and borderline toxic culture. Cignetti success just puts that much more pressure on any IU bball coach

 

[Pagoda]

2 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

"If you just ignore the inconvenient realities, my narrative makes perfect sense!!" 

Gee, where have we heard this from before with you, AH? 

Isn’t Georgia the opposite of IU?  No pressure there.  No “unrealistic” expectations.  No toxic fans. Perfect place to coach per some people.

15-57 in conference.  Fired.

 

[AH1971]

2 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

I'm not debating the Tom Crean diehards today. You guys can have at it about our coach from 10 years ago and how that somehow relates to the program today. 

I’ll likely be dead in 10 years and you losers will still be on here crying and wondering why IU can’t hire a coach.

[Five Prime]

I'm going to go back to hate watching Purdue. Miami actually looks like the better team, though Purdues experience may end up being enough to pull this out. 

[Home Jersey]

1 minute ago, AH1971 said:

I’ll likely be dead in 10 years and you losers will still be on here crying and wondering why IU can’t hire a coach.

Whatever helps you sleep at night!

[Hoosier987]

Letting Crean go was absolutely the right move. He had burned a lot of bridges, especially in-state, indicative of him handing out scholarships like candy. The program also had multiple embarrassing moments including a number of arrests under his watch, and another incident where one player quite literally ran over another with a car.

Even if you ignore that, he was given another High Major coaching job at UGA post IU.  Crean’s record at Georgia was brutal. His final season before being fired, he finished 6–26 overall and 1–17 in the SEC in 2021–22. Overall he went an atrocious 15–57 in SEC play (.208). That’s hard to explain when he had NBA talent like Nic Claxton and a potential generational player in Anthony Edwards.

Moving on from Crean was the right call. Where IU really missed was the hires after. Archie looked like a great up-and-coming coach at the time, but it just didn’t work. The Woodson hire, though, was a mistake from the jump.

Now we’ve got DeVries. He’s acknowledged some deficiencies the past couple weeks, which is encouraging. Hopefully he learns and adjusts. I do think the freshman class looks like a solid foundation—high-major, multi-year type players.

[Five Prime]

3 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

 

Letting Crean go was absolutely the right move. He had burned a lot of bridges, especially in-state, indicative of him handing out scholarships like candy. The program also had multiple embarrassing moments including a number of arrests under his watch, and another incident where one player quite literally ran over another with a car.

Even if you ignore that, he was given another High Major coaching job at UGA post IU.  Crean’s record at Georgia was brutal. His final season before being fired, he finished 6–26 overall and 1–17 in the SEC in 2021–22. Overall he went an atrocious 15–57 in SEC play (.208). That’s hard to explain when he had NBA talent like Nic Claxton and a potential generational player in Anthony Edwards.

Moving on from Crean was the right call. Where IU really missed was the hires after. Archie looked like a great up-and-coming coach at the time, but it just didn’t work. The Woodson hire, though, was a mistake from the jump.

Now we’ve got DeVries. He’s acknowledged some deficiencies the past couple weeks, which is encouraging. Hopefully he learns and adjusts. I do think the freshman class looks like a solid foundation—high-major, multi-year type players.

And yet, after an 18-14 first season (literally IUs average season over the last 2 decades), some fans are ready to move on...I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said, but the fan base will not be patient.

AND... how can we trust IUs leadership to get the next hire right? 

[Pagoda]

3 minutes ago, Five Prime said:

And yet, after an 18-14 first season (literally IUs average season over the last 2 decades), some fans are ready to move on...I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said, but the fan base will not be patient. 

2008-2011… 1, 4, and 3 conference wins.  Fans were very patient.

Two years into Woody fans were pretty happy. 

[Five Prime]

Just now, Pagoda said:

2008-2011… 1, 4, and 3 conference wins.  Fans were very patient.

Different era, different circumstances. Fan base has already shown cracks with Devries support. 

[Five Prime]

We are lost in the desert wilderness for nearly 40 years being supported by mana from Bob Knight heaven. 

[AH1971]

6 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

 

Letting Crean go was absolutely the right move. He had burned a lot of bridges, especially in-state, indicative of him handing out scholarships like candy. The program also had multiple embarrassing moments including a number of arrests under his watch, and another incident where one player quite literally ran over another with a car.

Even if you ignore that, he was given another High Major coaching job at UGA post IU.  Crean’s record at Georgia was brutal. His final season before being fired, he finished 6–26 overall and 1–17 in the SEC in 2021–22. Overall he went an atrocious 15–57 in SEC play (.208). That’s hard to explain when he had NBA talent like Nic Claxton and a potential generational player in Anthony Edwards.

Moving on from Crean was the right call. Where IU really missed was the hires after. Archie looked like a great up-and-coming coach at the time, but it just didn’t work. The Woodson hire, though, was a mistake from the jump.

Now we’ve got DeVries. He’s acknowledged some deficiencies the past couple weeks, which is encouraging. Hopefully he learns and adjusts. I do think the freshman class looks like a solid foundation—high-major, multi-year type players.

The assumption that Crean would have gone 15-57 in the B10 had he been retained is just preposterous. He had a ranked team and was well on his way to making his 5th tournament in 6 years until OG blew out his knee. He likely would have retained Blackmon for his senior year who had no interest in playing in Archie’s system along with Robert Johnson and upperclassman Juwan Morgan. Extrapolating Crean’s years at Georgia to Indiana is effing STUPID.

[Stuhoo]

16 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

I’ll likely be dead in 10 years and you losers will still be on here crying and wondering why IU can’t hire a coach.

Personal insults at other posters is a no-no.

”Your post is stupid!” Fine.

”You are stupid!” No.

[Pagoda]

1 minute ago, Five Prime said:

Different era, different circumstances. Fan base has already shown cracks with Devries support. 

No really.  It just doesn’t fit your argument.

The cracks were on the court with how we finished.  Fans just react to that — two losses to a not good NW at home and on a neutral.

[Pagoda]

3 minutes ago, AH1971 said:

The assumption that Crean would have gone 15-57 in the B10 had he been retained is just preposterous. He had a ranked team and was well on his way to making his 5th tournament in 6 years until OG blew out his knee. He likely would have retained Blackmon for his senior year who had no interest in playing in Archie’s system along with Robert Johnson and upperclassman Juwan Morgan. Extrapolating Crean’s years at Georgia to Indiana is effing STUPID.

That’s not the assumption.  lol.

The conclusion is he wasn’t a very good coach.  A good coach does not go 15-57 in conference anywhere.

[Five Prime]

1 minute ago, Pagoda said:

No really.  It just doesn’t fit your argument.

The cracks were on the court with how we finished.  Fans just react to that — two losses to a not good NW at home and on a neutral.

My argument is a simple one:

Poor decision making by IU leadership + unrealistic fan expectations = toxic culture to coach

Fan expectations for Creans first few years were tempered by extraneous circumstances. The poor leadership was the same.