TOM CREAN FIRED

[Uspshoosier 48,395]

I remember in the fall when I thought this team could be special on defense. I forgot to factor in the 100 spot decrease for Crean "teaching" it.

What is physically lacking for this team to be defensively elite?

Toughness, the will to want to stop the person across from you. Combine that with a below average defensive (that is being generous) coach and u get the 140 rated defense. Same coach last year and most same players and they were 59th. Did yogi, max, and nick make that big of difference? Or with no true leader holding anyone accountable are they just sleepwalker on D and figure they will just out score anyone?


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[Brass Cannon 25,153]

1 hour ago, Hoosier Guy said:

IU is absolutely still a blue blood program but hasn't had the right coach to have continued success and stability since RMK. Duke, UNC, Kansas and UK are the programs that are good year in and year out and that's because they've had stability with the HC. Roy Williams, Bill Self, Coach K and John Calipari. UK actually went trough a stretch there for a while with Tubby and Billy that set them back for some years. Their administration knew those two weren't good enough and cut bait. But it was definitely more with Billy then Tubby. Sampson would have been but we all know why he wasn't. The next hire has to be a hit. Otherwise, IU will become just another program

So 30 years of little to no success and we are still a blue blood but 35 and we aren't?  If the kids you are recruiting can't remember you being relevant year in and year out you aren't still a blue blood. 

[BlueDevil 9,147]

It seems like OG, Morgan, and Bryant, while good to great on defense last season have taken a step backwards. Even before the injuries, I don't recall OG stopping players on a consistent basis this season.

Besides Vic, have we ever really had a defensive stopper..? Have we had players that you looked to and thought "wow, they've really improved their defense from last season?"

Yogi improved leaps in bounds on defense his senior year. I think part of the problem as mentioned above with Crean's teams is that he recruits so many "raw" guys. You could probably count on 1 hand the amount of guys that were ready to go as soon as they stepped foot on campus that Crean recruited. There are no guys on this team that you can say damn they are just fundamentally sound. Crean gets his athletes sure but that doesn't equal success very often.


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[Brass Cannon 25,153]

2 hours ago, Uspshoosier said:

And reality is college basketball as a whole sees iu still as a blue blood.

You should of said u care about results

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We don't recruit like a blue blood. We don't win like a blue. 

We cant even win the recruiting battles when the kids dream of going to IU their whole lives. 

We aren't one anymore and it's mostly the fault of the people that were so afraid of change we settled for mediocrity. 

[Hoosier Guy 7,753]

1 minute ago, Brass Cannon said:

So 30 years of little to no success and we are still a blue blood but 35 and we aren't?  If the kids you are recruiting can't remember you being relevant year in and year out you aren't still a blue blood. 

I'm starting from the 21st century, so 2000. The last seven years of RMK weren't great but IU was still a highly thought of program. A blue blood is who makes the sport better. IU still makes the sport better when they're good. It's the same with Duke, UNC, Kansas and UK. Those are the five blue blood programs. A great coach can change a lot of things. IU gets Stevens, Donovan, Archie Miller, Chris Holtman, etc., IU will be good year in and year out once again. Preferably with Stevens because he is the best coach on IUs list and would instantly change the vibe and culture around Bloomington and the program in general. But to your first point, I would say IU hasn't been great for 17 years

[Uspshoosier 48,395]

So 30 years of little to no success and we are still a blue blood but 35 and we aren't?  If the kids you are recruiting can't remember you being relevant year in and year out you aren't still a blue blood. 

Nope we will still be a blue blood 40 years from now in the eyes of the college basketball community. Maybe the kids won't remember them being relevant but they are a blue blood. As long as your program has won the NCAA championship tied for 3rd most in history of the sport then I'm sure no one is going to come and take their blue blood card.


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[Uspshoosier 48,395]

We don't recruit like a blue blood. We don't win like a blue. 

We cant even win the recruiting battles when the kids dream of going to IU their whole lives. 

We aren't one anymore and it's mostly the fault of the people that were so afraid of change we settled for mediocrity. 

Regardless the college basketball community views IU as such. Should I listen to you on a message board or listen to people within the college basketball world? No offense Brass but I'm going to go with the college basketball community


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[mdn82 25,743]

So 30 years of little to no success and we are still a blue blood but 35 and we aren't?  If the kids you are recruiting can't remember you being relevant year in and year out you aren't still a blue blood. 

Not sure that is a measure I would use. A kid we are recruiting could have like 8 years of experience truly watching basketball. Being a blueblood is a historical thing. Being elite is current. We aren't elite.


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[Uspshoosier 48,395]

I'm starting from the 21st century, so 2000. The last seven years of RMK weren't great but IU was still a highly thought of program. A blue blood is who makes the sport better. IU still makes the sport better when they're good. It's the same with Duke, UNC, Kansas and UK. Those are the five blue blood programs. A great coach can change a lot of things. IU gets Stevens, Donovan, Archie Miller, Chris Holtman, etc., IU will be good year in and year out once again. Preferably with Stevens because he is the best coach on IUs list and would instantly change the vibe and culture around Bloomington and the program in general. But to your first point, I would say IU hasn't been great for 17 years

UCLA as well


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[Uspshoosier 48,395]

Not sure that is a measure I would use. A kid we are recruiting could have like 8 years of experience truly watching basketball. Being a blueblood is a historical thing. Being elite is current. We aren't elite.


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Very well said


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[Hoosier Guy 7,753]

6 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

UCLA as well


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I would still classify them as well

[Brass Cannon 25,153]

6 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

Regardless the college basketball community views IU as such. Should I listen to you on a message board or listen to people within the college basketball world? No offense Brass but I'm going to go with the college basketball community


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The basketball community doesn't view us as that. The old fogeys that do broadcasting might but talk to other fan bases  

no other fanbase thinks we are blue blood. Maybe UCLA because they are in a similar boat. 

 

[Uspshoosier 48,395]

The basketball community doesn't view us as that. The old fogeys that do broadcasting might but talk to other fan bases  

no other fanbase thinks we are blue blood. Maybe UCLA because they are in a similar boat. 

 

I don't give a crap about other fan bases


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[Brass Cannon 25,153]

8 minutes ago, mdn82 said:

Not sure that is a measure I would use. A kid we are recruiting could have like 8 years of experience truly watching basketball. Being a blueblood is a historical thing. Being elite is current. We aren't elite.


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That's different. It is literally impossible for a kid we recruit to remember us being relevant. We aren't relevant let alone elite. 

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Today in worthless BTB arguments...


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[BlueDevil 9,147]

The basketball community doesn't view us as that. The old fogeys that do broadcasting might but talk to other fan bases  

no other fanbase thinks we are blue blood. Maybe UCLA because they are in a similar boat. 

 

When you look at the all time great programs IU is certainly on the list. Sure IU isn't elite and not really relevant on the national level but anyone who says they aren't a blue blood anymore is a fool. I rag on IU to my dad all the time but I certainly still have them as an all time great program. You don't just stop being a blue blood. They have earned that status even though they haven't been relevant for awhile.


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[Hoosier Guy 7,753]

2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

That's different. It is literally impossible for a kid we recruit to remember us being relevant. We aren't relevant let alone elite. 

IU isn't elite by any means. This is very true and has been for a while. But IU is absolutely still relevant. People still keep tabs on IU

[Brass Cannon 25,153]

2 minutes ago, Uspshoosier said:

I don't give a crap about other fan bases


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Then why did you say you cared what the basketball community says?  

People need to accept if our fanbase is the only one calling us a blue blood. It's more likely our fanbase is delusional than everybody else is wrong. 

As soon as you accept mediocrity you stop being a blue blood. We accepted mediocrity about 20 years ago. 

[Brass Cannon 25,153]

1 minute ago, Hoosier Guy said:

IU isn't elite by any means. This is very true and has been for a while. But IU is absolutely still relevant. People still keep tabs on IU

Not even close to the way they do UK, Duke, UNC hooker U and Kansas.

 

[Uspshoosier 48,395]

Then why did you say you cared what the basketball community says?  

People need to accept if our fanbase is the only one calling us a blue blood. It's more likely our fanbase is delusional than everybody else is wrong. 

As soon as you accept mediocrity you stop being a blue blood. We accepted mediocrity about 20 years ago. 

When I said basketball community I meant the people that actually matter like other head coaches, assistant coaches, AD, media. Sorry for the confusion. I don't really care that orange crazy person Illinois fan on Illinois loyality doesn't view iu's program as a blue blood


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