Recruiting of Elite Talent

[HoosierAloha]

23 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Soooo UW and UCLA have better coaches and are in position to win a championship?

43 minutes ago, Baltimore Hoosier said:

Ummm huh? Not sure where the confusion is. 

I think you missed the part where Michael Porter's father is an assistant at Washington, which is why he picked them over other top schools. And who said anything about UCLA or Washington being in a better position to win a championship? I mentioned, Duke, Kentucky, Michigan State, Kansas, and UNC specifically, because those schools seem to be landing a majority of the best players every year. Whether it's coaching or the fact that they are all consistently in a position to win a championship, or a combination of both that lures top talent, I really couldn't say. 

As far as UCLA is concerned, they do have a history/tradition that no other school can match, and some recent success in the tourney, as well as some recent NBA Superstars to point to. I think that's why they continue to be fighting for the upper tier recruits year after year. 

If you go back and take a look at 247sports.com 's recruit rankings over the last 5 years, and just look at the top three players, 9 out of 15 went to either Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas..

Starting a new topic so we don't place needless information in Romeo's recruiting thread.

The confusion is, how are programs like UW, UCLA, and NC State landing crazy recruiting classes and elite recruit when they're currently programs are meh at best. 

UCLA:  I get UCLA's history and they're competing with Arizona and Cal for the elite recruits on the west coast.  However, Alford has done what in his tenure as a coach?  Stood up for a terrible individual because he played for him.  He made a few Sweet 16s and won in a mid-major conference in the regular season.  None of that screams the ability to land elite recruits or top end recruiting classes. 

UW:  I get that they landed Porter because of his father.  How did they land Markelle Fultz, Nigel Williams-Goss, and a few others from across the country to a program that is terrible?  It baffles me how they good to great players when they haven't done anything as a program.

NC State:  Is the definition of WTH recruiting.  They've been to a Sweet 16 or two under  Gottfriend yet they continue to recruit out of this world. 

Year            Recruiting  (Individual)                        Results

2016               #4 (7, 25, 56,58, 199)                        N/A

2015               #61 (40, 176)                                    16-17 (ACC - 13) (No postseason)

2014               #18 (44, 60, 71)                                22-14 (ACC - T6) (Sweet 16)

2013               #10 (25, 67, 82, 289, JC 10)            22-14 (ACC - T7) (2nd Round)

2012               #11 (14, 23, 47)                               24-11 (ACC - T4) (1st Round)

It doesn't make send how they're pulling top 10ish or top 20 classes without doing anything.  They've made one Sweet 16 under Gottfried and haven't won or got close to winning the ACC yet he's pulling top 25 recruits.  This makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

I'm not arguing about going up against the likes of puke or Duke.  They've done well and paid well.  I think we can challenge the likes of MSU, UNC, and UL for recruits even though they've gone further in the tourney we've had some regular season success.  We're also close to some of those recruits.  I get that recruiting is a really messy game and that kids have a mind of their own.  What I don't get is how some of these programs are getting top recruits without connections and previous success.  It smells fishy...

[hoosierpap]

UCLA is always going to recruit well regardless of the coach. They have academics, campus lifestyle, basketball history, national presence etc, etc. 

The others have a lot to do with connections. I posted something in that DM that maybe I should just copy and paste as an example....We were talking about Xavier's connection to Indiana Travis Steele (Born in Danville, IN, Butler Grad, Spiece AAU Coach for years, HSBB coach at Ben Davis) , and Aloha asked if Steele was what got OSU Conley and Oden...

1 hour ago, hoosierpap said:

Yes, and no. It was actually "technically" John Groce. But his connection was with his half-brother, Travis Steele who was both Conley and Oden's coach for that 2004 Spiece team . So, yes and no. 

Now IU has a role in this because under Sampson they hired Steele as video coordinator and Jeff Meyer as assistant (who was Eric's Dads college coach). It looked like this as a timeline

• Gordon committs to Illinois in like Nov/Dec 2005
• Mike Davis announces he'll be resigning Feb 2006
• ,Kelvin Sampson is hired March ish? 2006
• Sampsons first hire is Meyer a month later (April 2006)
• Sampson hires Travis Steele as video coordinator August 2006
• Gordon commits to IU Nov 2006

I think we all know what happened following that...

Now there was some messy stuff going on between March 2006 and Nov 2006, so IU has been there and even with this dude. Ironic Groce ends up at Illinois haha but you can see how some of this stuff can get messy behind the scenes.

 

5

 

Now that is a pretty specific example and I don't know as much about non-IU recruitments...but some of it are things like that above. Some are definitely the almighty shoe companies.

For Washington, they have a guy who is pretty dialed in to Nike. Associate HC used to be a Nike business manager. You can trace the schools those guys like Fultz(Dematha), Dickerson (Monteverde) and Williams-Goss (Findlay) back to Nike. Porter is more of the above type of "natural" connection.

NC State I really have no clue what goes on there lol but in looking into it I'm sure we would find some combo of both. I think people look a lot into how the team performed recently, but I think coaches just sell them on needed them to get to the next level. It's just a single factor and I doubt some kids care much about it. It only takes one.

[hoosierpap]

Id definitely like to hear others opinions though. The shoe stuff happens but probably more to it than that, idk

[HoosierAloha]

There was an article about recruiting talent out of Europe. It was largely controlled by who took their foreign trips to Europe and used a certain tour company. It was remarkable how well certain schools recruited Europe after taking a trip with that company. I'll try to find the article. It's not really elite talent but I'm sure certain things are happening in the US as well.

Edit: as promised
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/03/09/foreign-tours-recruiting-canarias-academy-minnesota-seton-hall#_

[HoosierAloha]

Not sure where to put this so I'll just post it here.

UL just received another commit, this one from the #14 PG in 2017. They now have the #3 center (#32 overall) in Malik Williams and the #14 point guard (65 overall) in Darius Miller. It's quite obvious recruits couldn't careless that UL might have more San ruins it the new BOT might give Slick Rick more time to watch his son coach.

[Baltimore Hoosier]

23 hours ago, HoosierAloha said:

Starting a new topic so we don't place needless information in Romeo's recruiting thread.

The confusion is, how are programs like UW, UCLA, and NC State landing crazy recruiting classes and elite recruit when they're currently programs are meh at best. 

UCLA:  I get UCLA's history and they're competing with Arizona and Cal for the elite recruits on the west coast.  However, Alford has done what in his tenure as a coach?  Stood up for a terrible individual because he played for him.  He made a few Sweet 16s and won in a mid-major conference in the regular season.  None of that screams the ability to land elite recruits or top end recruiting classes. 

UW:  I get that they landed Porter because of his father.  How did they land Markelle Fultz, Nigel Williams-Goss, and a few others from across the country to a program that is terrible?  It baffles me how they good to great players when they haven't done anything as a program.

NC State:  Is the definition of WTH recruiting.  They've been to a Sweet 16 or two under  Gottfriend yet they continue to recruit out of this world. 

Year            Recruiting  (Individual)                        Results

2016               #4 (7, 25, 56,58, 199)                        N/A

2015               #61 (40, 176)                                    16-17 (ACC - 13) (No postseason)

2014               #18 (44, 60, 71)                                22-14 (ACC - T6) (Sweet 16)

2013               #10 (25, 67, 82, 289, JC 10)            22-14 (ACC - T7) (2nd Round)

2012               #11 (14, 23, 47)                               24-11 (ACC - T4) (1st Round)

It doesn't make send how they're pulling top 10ish or top 20 classes without doing anything.  They've made one Sweet 16 under Gottfried and haven't won or got close to winning the ACC yet he's pulling top 25 recruits.  This makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

I'm not arguing about going up against the likes of puke or Duke.  They've done well and paid well.  I think we can challenge the likes of MSU, UNC, and UL for recruits even though they've gone further in the tourney we've had some regular season success.  We're also close to some of those recruits.  I get that recruiting is a really messy game and that kids have a mind of their own.  What I don't get is how some of these programs are getting top recruits without connections and previous success.  It smells fishy...

Your guess is as good as mine as to why some one-off's choose the schools they do. I think I understand why UCLA attracts top talent, Washington is a bit of a mystery although Fultz has been quoted as saying he wants to play for Washington because of his relationship with the head coach and of course Porter's father is an assistant..

You mention NC State... I live in ACC country so I understand the allure of playing for a school on tobacco road, I also think Gottfried is a really good, well respected coach. If you take a look at Indiana's recruiting over the last 5 years, as well as their tournament finishes, they are VERY similar to NC State (other than Indiana's success in the B1G).  

My point in all of this is that Romeo is by all consensus, the #1 or #2 high school player in the country. I do not think Indiana has a real chance in this battle because Duke, Kentucky, Kansas (who have gotten 60% of the top 3 recruits over the last 5 years) are involved along with the other schools I mentioned. 

 

 

 

[HoosierAloha]

Your guess is as good as mine as to why some one-off's choose the schools they do. I think I understand why UCLA attracts top talent, Washington is a bit of a mystery although Fultz has been quoted as saying he wants to play for Washington because of his relationship with the head coach and of course Porter's father is an assistant..

You mention NC State... I live in ACC country so I understand the allure of playing for a school on tobacco road, I also think Gottfried is a really good, well respected coach. If you take a look at Indiana's recruiting over the last 5 years, as well as their tournament finishes, they are VERY similar to NC State (other than Indiana's success in the B1G).  

My point in all of this is that Romeo is by all consensus, the #1 or #2 high school player in the country. I do not think Indiana has a real chance in this battle because Duke, Kentucky, Kansas (who have gotten 60% of the top 3 recruits over the last 5 years) are involved along with the other schools I mentioned. 

 

 

 

I don't disagree with where Romeo might end up. Southern Indiana isn't Hoosier country like I remember growing up. At that time you had some puke and UL fans but there were a lot more Hoosier fans. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. One of the next steps for Crean is landing those top 3-5 players, especially in somewhat of his backyard.

Like pap posted above a lot has to do with connections. It just feels like NC State really hasn't done much. You compare them to IU over the last 5 years but they haven't been close in regular season success and I think they've only been to the Sweet 16 a few times. However, he's pulling classes like a top 25 team. I would disagree with Gottfried as a good coach. Okay coach? Maybe.

I get UCLA getting some recruits because of location, history, etc but Alford isn't a very good coach either. He's had a ton of talent and has a Sweet 16 or two at UCLA without much regular season success...

It's just interesting and gets frustrating when you dig deeper into it. It's also extremely messy and not something for the faint at heart.

My point was the one offs though. They don't go to a particular school because of a great coach or a chance at a title. I believe they go there because of connections and things being promised in return for those players.

[HoosierAloha]

That sums it up... and I'm perfectly fine with it in a general sense. I really wish we could develop top level talent over three years while they get that degree and then take over the NBA!

[HoosierAloha]

Interesting article from SI.

Auburn and Pearl killing it in re recruiting, basketball recruiting.

Pitino also having a great summer on the recruiting trail.

Edit:  It also covers the timeline of recruits giving verbal commits.  2017 class is on schedule with the 2016 and 2015 classes as far as top 100 recruits.  I'm sure all that will pick up soon.

And, Pearl looks a little "creepy" in that photo
 

[WayneFleekHoosier]

Interesting article from SI.

Auburn and Pearl killing it in re recruiting, basketball recruiting.

Pitino also having a great summer on the recruiting trail.



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Disgusting.


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[HoosierAloha]

16 minutes ago, WayneFleekHoosier said:

Disgusting.


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It's okay though my parents always said "cheaters never win and winners never cheat!"

[HoosierAloha]

This UA Elite 24 is... odd. I'm not a fan of a hype man and refs on the court at the same time.

And they're dogging "Hannibal" haha

[323SGrant]

Yep. I can do without the hype man.

[HoosierAloha]

Yep. I can do without the hype man.

It was kind of an awkward event. ESPN getting excited to watch Trevon Duvall go one on one with Isaiah Washington for several trips down the court. Yeah, awesome event by UA...

[X-Hoosier]

It was kind of an awkward event. ESPN getting excited to watch Trevon Duvall go one on one with Isaiah Washington for several trips down the court. Yeah, awesome event by UA...

That is summer basketball for ya. It has became crap.

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[hoosierpap]

On 8/16/2016 at 5:33 PM, hoosierpap said:

UCLA is always going to recruit well regardless of the coach. They have academics, campus lifestyle, basketball history, national presence etc, etc. 

The others have a lot to do with connections. I posted something in that DM that maybe I should just copy and paste as an example....We were talking about Xavier's connection to Indiana Travis Steele (Born in Danville, IN, Butler Grad, Spiece AAU Coach for years, HSBB coach at Ben Davis) , and Aloha asked if Steele was what got OSU Conley and Oden...

 

Now that is a pretty specific example and I don't know as much about non-IU recruitments...but some of it are things like that above. Some are definitely the almighty shoe companies.

For Washington, they have a guy who is pretty dialed in to Nike. Associate HC used to be a Nike business manager. You can trace the schools those guys like Fultz(Dematha), Dickerson (Monteverde) and Williams-Goss (Findlay) back to Nike. Porter is more of the above type of "natural" connection.

NC State I really have no clue what goes on there lol but in looking into it I'm sure we would find some combo of both. I think people look a lot into how the team performed recently, but I think coaches just sell them on needed them to get to the next level. It's just a single factor and I doubt some kids care much about it. It only takes one.

 

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2016/08/30/trevon-duval-mixtape-under-armour-ucla-maryland/

[hsrtxp]

Pap, I used to live in the Los Angeles area back in the mid 80's.  I would be out making sales calls and swing through Westwood for lunch.Wow!  Beautiful place and killer chica's in halter/tube tops.  :)  It's an impressive place for a recruit to visit plus the weather is perfect..

What the gray winter days in the state of Indiana don't compare? Love B-town but the winter leaves a bit to be desired.


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[hsrtxp]

Sure- but Mich State, Syracuse and a host of other places WAY crappier seem to do ok.

Agree. MSU has had much more success and stability in recent times than IU so I think that's the difference there. As for Syracuse, different set of issues there.... Not sure IU will stoop to that level. Thankfully.

It's so easy for a program to fall off and so hard to climb back up. No doubt IU is on the rise in both f-ball and b-ball. Just taking longer than any of us would like.


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