If we get another five star center...

[TrueHoosier62 1,641]

I remember when Knight was here, players had a role, and when they stepped out of their assigned role, they quickly found themselves on the bench. That wasn't just a Knight trait, but a fairly common practice among coaches that demanded discipline of their players and equally demanded that the good of the team was worth more than anything they brought individually.

 

We had a player named Jason Collier back in the, (I think) late 90's who was around 7'. All he wanted to do was chuck it from the three point line. He was typical of some players coming out in those days; guys who were built to play center, but wanted to be a guard. Knight was having none of it, and chewed his ass off frequently. Eventually, I think the kid transferred to North Carolina and may or may not have made it to the NBA. 

 

In my own opinion, Zeller was similar in that he was tall enough to play center, but wanted to be a forward, (I never considered him a "tough" nosed center). Ditto for Vonleh. Great talent, great athlete, but not nearly tough enough under the basket. Crean simply doesn't demand from his Centers, a level of toughness and commitment to that role; he's too afraid of pissing them off.

[monskisprodigy 2,198]

I remember when Knight was here, players had a role, and when they stepped out of their assigned role, they quickly found themselves on the bench. That wasn't just a Knight trait, but a fairly common practice among coaches that demanded discipline of their players and equally demanded that the good of the team was worth more than anything they brought individually.

 

We had a player named Jason Collier back in the, (I think) late 90's who was around 7'. All he wanted to do was chuck it from the three point line. He was typical of some players coming out in those days; guys who were built to play center, but wanted to be a guard. Knight was having none of it, and chewed his ass off frequently. Eventually, I think the kid transferred to North Carolina and may or may not have made it to the NBA. 

 

In my own opinion, Zeller was similar in that he was tall enough to play center, but wanted to be a forward, (I never considered him a "tough" nosed center). Ditto for Vonleh. Great talent, great athlete, but not nearly tough enough under the basket. Crean simply doesn't demand from his Centers, a level of toughness and commitment to that role; he's too afraid of pissing them off.

 

Collier transferred to Georgia Tech and was drafted 15th overall in in the 2000 draft to the bucks. He died unexpectedly at his house in 2005, was later found that he had an enlarged heart. 

[schoosier 3,608]

To be fair, IU has never produced centers of note that went on to great careers in the NBA. In fact, I can only think of one, (Benson) and that was over forty years ago, (and he could hardly be classified as a star); everything else has been guards or forwards.
Neither Crean's system, nor his coaching are conducive to developing Centers; recruits see this first hand, and hear it repeatedly from rival recruiters. As I said earlier, until Crean lands an average player and truly develops them in to an NBA caliber Center, he'll struggle to get anyone to even visit, must less commit.
 
Vonleh not getting the ball on a consistent basis was all on Crean. There simply was no excuse for it. If it was Ferrell's job to do so and he didn't, then Crean should have sat him on the bench until the tiny receptors in his ass told the grey matter in his head to "get me the hell off here, get back in the game, and follow the damned plan"!

Alan Henderson and Dean Garrett both went on to have solid NBA careers although I don't think either made the all star game. But I agree we have never been known as a center oriented team like UCLA.

[HoosierAloha 30,092]

[quote name="schoosier" post="74962" timestamp="1405973587"]Alan Henderson and Dean Garrett both went on to have solid NBA careers although I don't think either made the all star game. But I agree we have never been known as a center oriented team like UCLA.[/quote]

Or Georgetown


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[schoosier 3,608]

It must be difficult for coach when he has had 3 lottery picks in two years and now finds himself struggling to land these same type of players. He did not do himself any favors by underutilizing Noah this year as Noah said he could have done more. By also losing a great recruiter to UL as well as a Hoosier legend in CC, the messages being sent are that thing are not well in Bloomington. Then you look at the tournament performance after winning the big and failing to even get an NIT bid this past year. Kids want to get to the league but they also want to play for championships and for teams with stable secure coaches. We just don't have any of that currently. Crean is a hard worker so he has that going for him. I think he needs to spend this off season brushing up on his x and o's and maybe cutting his play book in half.

[JSHoosier 21,401]

In my own opinion, Zeller was similar in that he was tall enough to play center, but wanted to be a forward, (I never considered him a "tough" nosed center). Ditto for Vonleh. Great talent, great athlete, but not nearly tough enough under the basket. Crean simply doesn't demand from his Centers, a level of toughness and commitment to that role; he's too afraid of pissing them off.

Position has to do with skill set too, not just height.  Zeller was a PF playing out of position at C, not really a C.  That's why we recruited Garrett Green when he was transferring from LSU.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

Article about HMP that includes some data on the decline of post play in college basketball http://www.insidethehall.com/2014/07/22/offseason-storylines-what-iu-needs-from-mosquera-perea/ Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.

[Bigdaddy76 111]

Not sure about lottery picks, but Mark few sure has had, and developed a LOT of post players/centers over the years. I think someone already mentioned Bo Ryan. Honestly, the same could be said for Beilien at UM, although that's a different kind of post guy. I tend to agree with what an earlier poster said. No reason that Noah shouldn't have touched the ball EVERY time down the floor last year. If whoever is out there doesn't give him touches, sit their butts on the bench until they get the message. As bad a season as last year was, I feel like there were sooo many times that we had the best player on the floor, and didn't get him the ball. That's just inexcusable!  

[schoosier 3,608]

I forgot about Walt Bellamy and Don Schlundt(sp) who were both dominant centers for IU. I never got to see either play but Bellamy's rebounding stats were unbelievable. Kansas would be another to consider with Mikan, Wilt and Embibe to name a few.

[JSHoosier 21,401]

I forgot about Walt Bellamy and Don Schlundt(sp) who were both dominant centers for IU. I never got to see either play but Bellamy's rebounding stats were unbelievable. Kansas would be another to consider with Mikan, Wilt and Embibe to name a few.

George McGinnis was an absolute beast as well.

[schoosier 3,608]

George McGinnis was an absolute beast as well.

No doubt even though he coined the term power forward. Big George also passed the ball well and was a prolific scorer. With so few of these game changers at center coming out, I just don't understand why Crean hasn't put more focus on the few Indiana boys that fit this mold. While a lot here may disagree with me, I think both Hammons and McGary were two of them. Of course, Zeller was a huge get and crean should get the credit for landing him.

[JSHoosier 21,401]

No doubt even though he coined the term power forward. Big George also passed the ball well and was a prolific scorer. With so few of these game changers at center coming out, I just don't understand why Crean hasn't put more focus on the few Indiana boys that fit this mold. While a lot here may disagree with me, I think both Hammons and McGary were two of them. Of course, Zeller was a huge get and crean should get the credit for landing him.

Hammons wouldn't have fit with this system, at all.

[Walking Boot of Doom 18,170]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="75062" timestamp="1406071240"]Hammons wouldn't have fit with this system, at all.[/quote] Idk, he and Jeremy would've have gotten along well.


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[Hovadipo 58,943]

[quote name="jurkinonthecourt" post="75063" timestamp="1406073111"]Idk, he and Jeremy would've have gotten along well.


Sent from my place of advanced, analytical thinking: the toilet.[/quote]

I feel like if Hammons and Hollowell played here together, instead of "Cook" Hall it would've been "Baked" Hall.

Is that wrong to say...? Or..?


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[Stuhoo 84,752]

I feel like if Hammons and Hollowell played here together, instead of "Cook" Hall it would've been "Baked" Hall.

Is that wrong to say...? Or..?


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THAT was too funny!

 

Well done, Hova.

[schoosier 3,608]

Hammons wouldn't have fit with this system, at all.

I disagree. He has lost a ton of weight, has soft hands, rebounds well, and would be a hell of an outlet passer for fast breaking. Plus if it gets into half court sets, he could high ball screen and roll to the basket or make good passes to wings or another post players. My question after year 6 or 7, what is Indiana basketballs system under Tom Crean? I would say fast breaks littered with turnovers or half court dribble dribble until chucking one up at the last moment. As far as defense, we can't play zone or press with efficiency so man to man? But that takes helpside defense which we haven't shown we can do that very well either. I will be interested in what you or others think our system is and has been under Crean's tenure.

[schoosier 3,608]

I feel like if Hammons and Hollowell played here together, instead of "Cook" Hall it would've been "Baked" Hall. Is that wrong to say...? Or..?Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

I said something to the same effect regarding Mcgary's problems and fitting in well with our team and got a warning point. I guess when a player leaves the gloves can come off. Or maybe its selective enforcement just like the NCAA.

[Hovadipo 58,943]

[quote name="schoosier" post="75070" timestamp="1406076055"]I said something to the same effect regarding Mcgary's problems and fitting in well with our team and got a warning point. I guess when a player leaves the gloves can come off. Or maybe its selective enforcement just like the NCAA.[/quote]

Oh.


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[Stuhoo 84,752]

I said something to the same effect regarding Mcgary's problems and fitting in well with our team and got a warning point. I guess when a player leaves the gloves can come off. Or maybe its selective enforcement just like the NCAA.

 

 

Oh.


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FnpaWQJO0

 

[JSHoosier 21,401]

I disagree. He has lost a ton of weight, has soft hands, rebounds well, and would be a hell of an outlet passer for fast breaking. Plus if it gets into half court sets, he could high ball screen and roll to the basket or make good passes to wings or another post players. My question after year 6 or 7, what is Indiana basketballs system under Tom Crean? I would say fast breaks littered with turnovers or half court dribble dribble until chucking one up at the last moment. As far as defense, we can't play zone or press with efficiency so man to man? But that takes helpside defense which we haven't shown we can do that very well either. I will be interested in what you or others think our system is and has been under Crean's tenure.

I pretty well agree with what the system is, run run run and that's about it.  A weave at the top of the key seems to be the only time just 2 players are standing around watching, with a whole lot of dribbling the air out.  My feelings on our offense, especially in the halfcourt, are known.

 

I'm just not upset we didn't get Hammons, a running offense like ours would've killed him.