Should we stop recruiting five star centers?

[IUfan_Charlie 3,867]

I just think with Crean's system I think a lot of other teams are going to attack us by mentioning to elite big men that under our Coach's system they will not thrive and become better.

 

If you honestly think we are going to get Stephen Zimmerman or a Diamond Stone then yes ignore what I just said ( and I hope we do get them), but if we can get those kids (top26-100 in each class) centers who help contribute and actually help our guards and small forwards thrive, I wouldn't be opposed to it.  

What? We've had 2 lottery pick bigs in the past 2 seasons...

[Banksyrules 4,802]

What? We've had 2 lottery pick bigs in the past 2 seasons...

But how much better have they become? One could easily argue that Zeller and Vonleh already inherited their basketball skills that propelled them to the draft.  

 

Calipari has a bunch of one and done's but I don't think he developed them at all. However, he uses the power of money to get them.    Still they did well in the lottery.  Cousins is my example, great talent but if developed correctly he could have been a lot better in the pros.  

 

I personally think Zeller and Vonleh improved a little but if I was being honest with myself I could see how they might develop better under different circumstances.  Plus until the last six months of High School, Zeller wasn't ranked in the top twenty if memory serves me right. 

Plus it kind of hurts us that Vonleh gave us some verbal jabs before he left.  Other teams will use those quotes directly to downplay us. 

[All_Hoosiers 873]

Obviously don't stop recruiting them, but they shouldn't be Crean's biggest priority.

It would be incredible to land 5-star centers, but Crean needs 5-star guards more than anything.

A big guy that protects the rim and rebounds is all we need IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[Hwy 1 2,053]

Are you telling me the state of Indiana can't produce big men who are fundamentally sound?  I just gave you one example of many. 

Coach Crean just got one Luke, but there is no reason he can't get 2 or 3 big men who have great rebounding skills who provide great defense.  There are plenty of them out there.  I'm talking about kids who have more of a skill set then Hanner or Peter.  Hargondy was never a project, he just had great fundamentals.  

 

It would probably not be advantageous of you to always bring up the worst case example when presenting your argument each time.  There are kids who have better skill sets then Peter and Hanner but who are not elite.  

 

 

I brought up that Coach is doing what you wish for, sorry that you can't see that. He's also going out and getting the elite bigs. He isn't going to stop doing that. It would probably be advantageous of you to realize that your intentions are good but your concept is a little flawed. It's not personal, it's just the truth. 

[IUfan_Charlie 3,867]

Obviously don't stop recruiting them, but they shouldn't be Crean's biggest priority.

It would be incredible to land 5-star centers, but Crean needs 5-star guards more than anything.

A big guy that protects the rim and rebounds is all we need IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

I want a big physical 5 star guard like Kelly Oubre or Wayne Seldon.

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

Recruit 5 star centers, but make sure to have have fundamentally sound and ready to contribute 4-6 ppg 8+ boards ~2-4 blocks per game as freshmen, fou- year-player bigs. Its a lot to ask.. if Luke hadn't transferred our depth for bigs next year would be okay. Not good, but serviceable. But no reason to not go after top talent.

[Banksyrules 4,802]

I brought up that Coach is doing what you wish for, sorry that you can't see that. He's also going out and getting the elite bigs. He isn't going to stop doing that. It would probably be advantageous of you to realize that your intentions are good but your concept is a little flawed. It's not personal, it's just the truth. 

To you it's flawed and I respect that.  But it's not definitively flawed when others (from posts above) don't think so.  Granted every idea needs a few tweeks but to just claim something is definitively flawed, closes the door to find new avenues for success. Just my opinion.   

[Banksyrules 4,802]

Recruit 5 star centers, but make sure to have have fundamentally sound and ready to contribute 4-6 ppg 8+ boards ~2-4 blocks per game as freshmen, fou- year-player bigs. Its a lot to ask.. if Luke hadn't transferred our depth for bigs next year would be okay. Not good, but serviceable. But no reason to not go after top talent.

I guess the base of the argument is to ask how much focus we should put towards the five star centers as opposed to getting those five star guards which we all know could thrive under Coach Crean.  

 

I'm all for looking at interest of an elite big man but not to point were resources could be better used to secure a five star guard.  I guess it's a balance.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

To you it's flawed and I respect that.  But it's not definitively flawed when others (from posts above) don't think so.  Granted every idea needs a few tweeks but to just claim something is definitively flawed, closes the door to find new avenues for success. Just my opinion.   

 

 

Just because a few guys agree with you doesn't mean it isn't flawed. 

[Banksyrules 4,802]

Just because a few guys agree with you doesn't mean it isn't flawed. 

That's true, but at least it opens the door for more debate without an absolute statement.  

[Hwy 1 2,053]

That's true, but at least it opens the door for more debate without an absolute statement.  

 

 

and that's all I was doing. If you don't like my "absolute statement" that's fine. I stick by it. I've tried to tell you that getting lesser talent is part of the equation. Not going after the best talent should never be part of the equation though. It's just my opinion but I don't think that part is negotiable. There's enough coaches and time to go after anyone you have a shot at. You might not bother to give more than a cursory stab at some guy who's getting paid to go puke but you go full bore on the guys you have a shot at. You'd see me first in line on the fire Tom Crean train if he ever failed to do that.  

[Banksyrules 4,802]

Fair enough Hwy 1.  I'm not opposed of getting the five star centers, but as of right now I think it might be a little more difficult then before.  

and that's all I was doing. If you don't like my "absolute statement" that's fine. I stick by it. I've tried to tell you that getting lesser talent is part of the equation. Not going after the best talent should never be part of the equation though. It's just my opinion but I don't think that part is not negotiable. There's enough coaches and time to go after anyone you have a shot at. You might not bother to give more than a cursory stab at some guy who's getting paid to go puke but you go full bore on the guys you have a shot at. You'd see me first in line on the fire Tom Crean train if he ever failed to do that.  

[Hwy 1 2,053]

That doesn't mean you give up. If anything you try twice as hard. I don't expect another one right away but it'll happen. You aren't a competitor if you give up because things didn't quite go the way you hoped for. 

 

Right now they have to focus on getting whatever they can get for next year. Thanks Luke's mommy!

[mdn82 25,510]

[quote name="Banksyrules" post="60547" timestamp="1397825395"]But how much better have they become? One could easily argue that Zeller and Vonleh already inherited their basketball skills that propelled them to the draft.

[/quote]. Here is the issue I take with this logic. So every kid who makes it has talent, but those who don't did not have less talent? Why are kids ranked so highly then disappoint? I would argue Crean has higher success rate with higher ranked players than most. Sure it is a small sample size, but who in the top 30 has he had that had failed? By your logic top ranked kids have talent. His talented kids make it. Not everyone's do.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

[Banksyrules 4,802]

That doesn't mean you give up. If anything you try twice as hard. I don't expect another one right away but it'll happen. You aren't a competitor if you give up because things didn't quite go the way you hoped for. 

 

Right now they have to focus on getting whatever they can get for next year. Thanks Luke's mommy!

I never said give up. I just think our resources are better spent in different areas.  I personally don't see us getting one of the top centers in the top twenty in the class.  You can't be everywhere at once.  I just think if we gave the top 25-100 centers in each class the proper attention a five star athlete would we would be raking them in and creating a great TEAM. Just my opinion.  

[Banksyrules 4,802]

. Here is the issue I take with this logic. So every kid who makes it has talent, but those who don't did not have less talent? Why are kids ranked so highly then disappoint? I would argue Crean has higher success rate with higher ranked players than most. Sure it is a small sample size, but who in the top 30 has he had that had failed? By your logic top ranked kids have talent. His talented kids make it. Not everyone's do.


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners mobile app

Fair enough. I've got yard work to do but I try to look at everything by a case by case example.  I feel that Vonleh and Cody would have made it on their own merits.  It's not a fact but it's just my opinion.  However, I feel that Coach Crean contributed to Oladipo's success as well.  

[djsalway 4,161]

Recruit 5 star centers, but make sure to have have fundamentally sound and ready to contribute 4-6 ppg 8+ boards ~2-4 blocks per game as freshmen, fou- year-player bigs. Its a lot to ask.. if Luke hadn't transferred our depth for bigs next year would be okay. Not good, but serviceable. But no reason to not go after top talent.

2-4 blocks is surely a lot to ask of a freshman... Most senior big men can't accomplish 4 blocks per game.

[Hwy 1 2,053]

I never said give up. I just think our resources are better spent in different areas.  I personally don't see us getting one of the top centers in the top twenty in the class.  You can't be everywhere at once.  I just think if we gave the top 25-100 centers in each class the proper attention a five star athlete would we would be raking them in and creating a great TEAM. Just my opinion.  

 

 

Your thread title "Should we stop recruiting five star centers?" indicates that is your intention.

[Banksyrules 4,802]

"Should" merely asks the question it doesn't relay intent.  Anywho, I've got a lot of work to do so I'll leave it at that.  

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

[quote name="djsalway" post="60573" timestamp="1397829875"]2-4 blocks is surely a lot to ask of a freshman... Most senior big men can't accomplish 4 blocks per game.[/quote]

Jeez dj, can't you let me dream a little? Haha


Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners