(2014) SF Josh Cunningham to Bradley

[KelleyHoosh 2,263]

[quote name="Baltimore Hoosier" post="58068" timestamp="1396885891"]I think there is depth in the backcourt.. I think the frontcourt needs work but I am excited about Devin Davis and I am interested to see if Perrea can contribute 20+ min/game.

I'm not saying this is a championship team on paper, but I think this team has the opportunity to improve on last season's for sure.. How can you not be excited to see James Blackmon in candy stripes? I think he's the type of explosive scorer that can really be a program changer. .[/quote]

I'm really excited for next year! Hope we get it goin


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[8bucks 7,478]

[quote name="Baltimore Hoosier" post="58062" timestamp="1396884575"]Where was this program when Crean stepped in?

He's already landed 2 top 50 recruits, one being a McDonalds All-American for 2014 in case you haven't been following.

Why on Earth would Crean landing or not landing a guy who may or may not amount to anything on the college level have anything to do with you backing him or not? Remember Perrea? Ranked in the top 25 in many publications?? Gimmie a break.[/quote]

Crean did great on the rebuild. He brought us back to prominence with quality kids.

The task of rebuilding and continually fielding a highly competitive team are not necessarily built on the same skill set. Expectations are lower during the rebuild and have naturally now increased.

Now Crean is measured on his ability to field a highly competitive team, still with quality kids. This year the results were very disappointing. It was disappointing not because we lost Vic, Cody, CWat and Hulls but because we jettisoned Creek and Remy and we did a poor job on the 2012 class.

If we want to give another mulligan for this year because of his rebuild efforts I understand. I do expect us to be better next year but I am not convinced we are close to fielding a highly competitive team. As you build a program, especially on the heels of last years success we should have more recruiting momentum than we are showing. Blackman and RoJo will definitely help but at best I would think we are 2 years away from being a FF caliber team. I can live with that if we jump up to top 25 next year AND we appear to have a better succession plan in place when we lose Blackman,yogi et al.


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[WayneFleekHoosier 51,012]

I think I heard the other night that Bo Ryan has made the NCAAs for 13 straight years. At Wisconsin. Every year he has been there. Chew on that a while. Crean was granted 3 years which was one more year than I thought necessary, but now there are no excuses.

[hoosierpap 14,300]

The idea that Indiana can offer a kid, out of state, and that become his first option everytime is very outdated, imo. I've seen that idea portrayed by a number of posters.I'm not trying to get into a big conversation about it, but there are many other factors in recruitments which could steer him to small schools, football schools, hogwarts, where ever.

 

So IU has tradition. IU plays in a big conference. IU has playing time.

 

That playing time exists out of position. I don't know JC, but I would say it's safe to assume a goal of his is to make it to the NBA. If that is true, how is a 6'7 wing who has worked on extending his range going to benefit from playing the 4 in a conference known for having "bruisers" inside when he will not be able to play that position in the pros? Sometimes it feels like in Crean's offense, it is not the traditional 4, and I'm sure that is Crean's pitch. Will it work? We'll find out.

 

He wants to play on the perimeter, why not play for a school that ensures just that.

[JSHoosier 22,186]

The idea that Indiana can offer a kid, out of state, and that become his first option everytime is very outdated, imo. I've seen that idea portrayed by a number of posters.I'm not trying to get into a big conversation about it, but there are many other factors in recruitments which could steer him to small schools, football schools, hogwarts, where ever.

 

So IU has tradition. IU plays in a big conference. IU has playing time.

 

That playing time exists out of position. I don't know JC, but I would say it's safe to assume a goal of his is to make it to the NBA. If that is true, how is a 6'7 wing who has worked on extending his range going to benefit from playing the 4 in a conference known for having "bruisers" inside when he will not be able to play that position in the pros? Sometimes it feels like in Crean's offense, it is not the traditional 4, and I'm sure that is Crean's pitch. Will it work? We'll find out.

 

He wants to play on the perimeter, why not play for a school that ensures just that.

Cunningham would be a wing here.  Crean's "4" does play on the perimeter, they tend to be bit of a 3/4 combo like Watford.  The problem comes at the "5", his 5 is a 4 playing out of position (Zeller, Vonleh) not a traditional 5.

 

Cunningham is a 3 so he'd spend plenty of time a the 4 here, on the perimeter.  That said, he wouldn't be an immediate impact.

[hoosierpap 14,300]

[quote name="JSHoosier" post="58081" timestamp="1396888640"]Cunningham would be a wing here. Crean's "4" does play on the perimeter, they tend to be bit of a 3/4 combo like Watford. The problem comes at the "5", his 5 is a 4 playing out of position (Zeller, Vonleh) not a traditional 5.

Cunningham is a 3 so he'd spend plenty of time a the 4 here, on the perimeter. That said, he wouldn't be an immediate impact.[/quote]

I agree, and I said thats what Crean is pitching. So does Cunningham buy playing an unconventional 4 or would he rather just go play for a program that is going to play him at the conventional 3?

Also, I'm not trying to simplify this recruitment, there are plenty of factors. I'm just trying to illustrate that there are legitimate reasons why a kid would go to a smaller or football school as opposed to IU.


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[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

I agree, and I said thats what Crean is pitching. So does Cunningham buy playing an unconventional 4 or would he rather just go play for a program that is going to play him at the conventional 3?

Also, I'm not trying to simplify this recruitment, there are plenty of factors. I'm just trying to illustrate that there are legitimate reasons why a kid would go to a smaller or football school as opposed to IU.


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Hit the nail on the head! That's why posters who are saying things like, "if Crean misses this one, I'm done with him," are being incredibly short sighted and are not understanding the nature of recruiting and more importantly, how these players would fit into a particular system or roster.

 

It's the old square peg doesn't fit into a round hole expression.

[JSHoosier 22,186]

Hit the nail on the head! That's why posters who are saying things like, "if Crean misses this one, I'm done with him," are being incredibly short sighted and are not understanding the nature of recruiting and more importantly, how these players would fit into a particular system or roster.

 

It's the old square peg doesn't fit into a round hole expression.

Trying to put a square peg in a round hole describes this past season.  A player not fitting his system hasn't really stopped Crean from trying to get them.

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

Trying to put a square peg in a round hole describes this past season.  A player not fitting his system hasn't really stopped Crean from trying to get them.

 

How so?

[JSHoosier 22,186]

How so?

He didn't have the right players for his offense, but he tried forcing it anyway instead of adjusting.  That's trying to shove a square peg in a round hole.  He had players that could jump (in Troy's case, can only jump), not players that can shoot.

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

He didn't have the right players for his offense, but he tried forcing it anyway instead of adjusting.  That's trying to shove a square peg in a round hole.  He had players that could jump (in Troy's case, can only jump), not players that can shoot.

 

This isn't the fab 5. There was an insane amount of turnover. Crean put the best players on the floor. Do I think they were all utlizied properly at all times? No. But for the most part, when you're relying on freshmen to be scorers, things can go sideways in a hurry.

 

Troy's numbers were almost identical to Oladipo's his freshman year including shooting %, PPG, rebounding, etc. What did you expect?

[JSHoosier 22,186]

This isn't the fab 5. There was an insane amount of turnover. Crean put the best players on the floor. Do I think they were all utlizied properly at all times? No. But for the most part, when you're relying on freshmen to be scorers, things can go sideways in a hurry.

 

Troy's numbers were almost identical to Oladipo's his freshman year including shooting %, PPG, rebounding, etc. What did you expect?

I know what the risk is when you rely on freshman (although being young didn't stop Michigan from going to the Elite 8 with 0 McD AAs), I'm the one that was on this board saying Troy is nothing but an athlete because I saw him play.  So before you get unrealistic hopes for him this coming season, remember what Vic looked like as a sophomore with a shaky handle an inconsistent mid range and no business shooting a 3.

 

The youth with this team is Crean's fault because classes weren't balanced and that's part of recruiting.  Roster was also poorly constructed, which is also part of recruiting and is Crean's fault.  He never looked at the personnel he had and adjusted his system to fit them, which is what a good coach should do, he tried to fit a square peg in a round hole and the season suffered because of it.  BTW, I expected a tournament appearance and with a 68 team field that should a minimum expectation every single year.

 

Not to derail this thread, so as I said originally with your "square peg round hold" comment that is exactly what Crean did.  So don't assume just because a player may not fit he won't go after them, he'll try to make them fit.

[8bucks 7,478]

[quote name="Baltimore Hoosier" post="58110" timestamp="1396897304"]This isn't the fab 5. There was an insane amount of turnover. Crean put the best players on the floor. Do I think they were all utlizied properly at all times? No. But for the most part, when you're relying on freshmen to be scorers, things can go sideways in a hurry.

Troy's numbers were almost identical to Oladipo's his freshman year including shooting %, PPG, rebounding, etc. What did you expect?[/quote]

I am not JS but thought your question "what did you expect " was fair and thought I would answer as well.

I thought Noah should have been about what he was. Perhaps more of a force as the year ended. Could have been the injury.

I expected the other freshman to play about as well as they did.

I expected the sophomores, who were part of a top ten class, to contribute heavily. Not all top ranked kids contribute but in this class we have had 4 of 5 underperform and now 2 maybe 3 are gone. We encouraged Creek to leave largely because the coaches thought the freshman and sophomores would be better.

I expected Austin to give us some steady leadership, outside shooting or perhaps some of what Will gave us his junior year. He gave some minutes and seems like a good kid but in year three his contributions were limited. I understand his injury set him back physically but I would have hoped he would have developed more of a leadership position.

I expected Will to have a really good year. Maybe not like Vic last year but more like the way he finished the year. The coaches have regularly raved about will being like a coach on the floor but something was way off with him this year. Either his game regressed, he was not a good leader or probably a combination of factors.

In short, I expected to see much more from our Sr, Jr and Sophomores than we saw. These guys were not necc McDs kids but were all part of highly ranked classes and were three stars or higher. Crean gets a lot of credit for developing players so I expected solid veteran play and leadership from these kids.

Some of this is on those kids but since we are talking about several kids a lot of this goes on the coaches too.



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[Hoosier0908 1]

First post, been a viewer for some time.  Happy to be here!  A couple of points:

 

1)  Cunningham visiting USC is troublesome, but not the end of the world.  Would be a great 4 year player, but I'm not that concerned if we don't land him. 

 

2)  Does nobody realize that we have 3 scholarships for this year/next?!  Whomever else we sign this year, this late in the game, will be taking spots away from (potentially) "higher talent", "immediate impact" players in 2015.  Let's say we sign some kids to fill the scholly's.  What happens next year?  Crean runs kids off?  Unless we find "lightning in the bottle" with a late kid, you could say banking the scholly's is not bad. 

[djsalway 4,161]

First post, been a viewer for some time.  Happy to be here!  A couple of points:

 

1)  Cunningham visiting USC is troublesome, but not the end of the world.  Would be a great 4 year player, but I'm not that concerned if we don't land him. 

 

2)  Does nobody realize that we have 3 scholarships for this year/next?!  Whomever else we sign this year, this late in the game, will be taking spots away from (potentially) "higher talent", "immediate impact" players in 2015.  Let's say we sign some kids to fill the scholly's.  What happens next year?  Crean runs kids off?  Unless we find "lightning in the bottle" with a late kid, you could say banking the scholly's is not bad. 

 

To answer #2, the hope is that we can get a (couple) 5th year player(s), which would free up scholarships next year. Crean won't be able to have a team without 13 scholarship players, even as much as it might make sense, so don't count on it.

[JSHoosier 22,186]

First post, been a viewer for some time.  Happy to be here!  A couple of points:

 

1)  Cunningham visiting USC is troublesome, but not the end of the world.  Would be a great 4 year player, but I'm not that concerned if we don't land him. 

 

2)  Does nobody realize that we have 3 scholarships for this year/next?!  Whomever else we sign this year, this late in the game, will be taking spots away from (potentially) "higher talent", "immediate impact" players in 2015.  Let's say we sign some kids to fill the scholly's.  What happens next year?  Crean runs kids off?  Unless we find "lightning in the bottle" with a late kid, you could say banking the scholly's is not bad. 

Crean won't bank a scholarship, don't even entertain the idea.

[8bucks 7,478]

[quote name="Hoosier0908" post="58125" timestamp="1396899939"]First post, been a viewer for some time. Happy to be here! A couple of points: 1) Cunningham visiting USC is troublesome, but not the end of the world. Would be a great 4 year player, but I'm not that concerned if we don't land him. 2) Does nobody realize that we have 3 scholarships for this year/next?! Whomever else we sign this year, this late in the game, will be taking spots away from (potentially) "higher talent", "immediate impact" players in 2015. Let's say we sign some kids to fill the scholly's. What happens next year? Crean runs kids off? Unless we find "lightning in the bottle" with a late kid, you could say banking the scholly's is not bad. [/quote] Crean has said he would never bank a scholarship so I would not expect him to change unless no one is out there. I think the kids we are after see this. Why be a late addition here. Yeah you might get time next year but the expectation is that we will bring in more talented guys and you see less time as you get older. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners

[Hoosier0908 1]

Can't say I disagree, nor am I stating that he will/won't bank scholly's.  I am just bringing about a larger view of the situation we are in.  The loss of Cunningham will not cause me to "leap off the edge."  Would be nice to get this kid, but I think we are in good standings with kids in 2015 that are "immediate impact."  A one year band-aide like Lee was the answer.  Bringing in a less heralded athlete just to fill the roster may not be.  

 

That being said, I like everything I have seen with Cunningham and will be happy if we are able to land him.  Will need some time in the gym, but has the attitude and basic foundation of skills to be a great college athlete. 

[Baltimore Hoosier 986]

I'm willing to give Crean another year to right the ship. I belive that last season was an anomoly. The roster turnover, two of which were lottery picks, and the loss of a couple transfers coupled with underperforming recruits made things extrmely difficult. I think there is reason to be optimistic about 2014-15. Maybe I'm wrong.. I like the pieces that are in place though.

 

I keep thinking about Crean's 2007-2008 Marquette team. They were small but extrmely efficient and won a lot of games. They ended up losing in the second round of the tourney in OT to a good Stanford team. They started 3 guards, a swing forward, and rotated a big man. Dominic James, who was from the Indy area I believe, started at PG @ 5'11.. Not that I am happy or satisfied with losing in the 2nd round of the tourney, but I think this team has just as much, if not more talent than that Marquette team.. .

[8bucks 7,478]

[quote name="Baltimore Hoosier" post="58141" timestamp="1396902557"]I'm willing to give Crean another year to right the ship. I belive that last season was an anomoly. The roster turnover, two of which were lottery picks, and the loss of a couple transfers coupled with underperforming recruits made things extrmely difficult. I think there is reason to be optimistic about 2014-15. Maybe I'm wrong.. I like the pieces that are in place though. I keep thinking about Crean's 2007-2008 Marquette team. They were small but extrmely efficient and won a lot of games. They ended up losing in the second round of the tourney in OT to a good Stanford team. They started 3 guards, a swing forward, and rotated a big man. Dominic James, who was from the Indy area I believe, started at PG @ 5'11.. Not that I am happy or satisfied with losing in the 2nd round of the tourney, but I think this team has just as much, if not more talent than that Marquette team.. .[/quote] I agree that the pieces are in place for a sweet sixteen type of run next year. I do not see the pieces yet to move beyond that. Even if we had 2015 commits they would be verbal only so that does not worry me much. We need to get of the gates well next year so that the 15's who will be signing in Nov will see something encouraging here. Sent from my iPhone using BtownBanners