Fire Coach Woodson Thread

[Home Jersey 7,436]

34 minutes ago, 68Hoosier said:

I think no one can be as lazy as MM on defending the 3.  My wife can do better, and she hates sports and doesn't know where the 3-point line is. 

It feels like almost every single time Mgbako is the one closing out on the shooter, they're nailing a 3 over him.

He is a step late every time. Very lackadaisical. Almost no intensity.

He looks like a very rigid player at this level with a one-dimensional skillset and next to no athleticism. 

Like watching a shell of the 5 star I saw a handful of times in HS/AAU. 

.... starting to notice a trend....

[cybergates 458]

1 hour ago, Home Jersey said:

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I took a closer look out of curiosity since we had the same 18-13 projection based on "math" (if you can really call what I did math). My "eye test" prediction would give us a much worse record (14-17, though I hope I'm wrong and am sure it will most likely end up somewhere between the two). This is their projection/line for each game: 

So they project 9-11 in conference, beating: Rutger, USC, Maryland, Michigan, Purdue, PSU, OSU at home. Also @ Washington. 

My eye test projection says 5-15, beating: Rutger, USC, @ Washington, Ohio State (+ Minnesota that already happened).

The four games where we differ are at home vs. Maryland, Michigan, Purdue, and PSU. 

Torvik has the Maryland, Michigan, and Purdue games all within 2 points, 55%. PSU at home is 3.4 spread, 62%. 

I don't think at home vs. Rutgers is a sure thing by any means. Not optimistic about either PSU game. 

I think even that 18-13 (9-11) record looks mighty optimistic at the moment. 

Don't think for a second that Woodson is going to get canned mid-season...

But if we lose 10-12 straight starting with the Iowa game, or only win a couple from Rutgers on 1/2 - PSU on 2/26 ... 

I'd not be remotely shocked if Mike Woodson's knee/back "act up" and can't go on the trip out west vs. UW and Oregon. 

Going by total % chance of winning, we'd end up with the same results as the game by game predictions which isn't always the case. They add up to 10.28 wins.

I get/agree with your pessimism though since I feel it is unlikely we'd win one out of four of the games where we have around 25%-35% projected chance to win. If that's the case, we have to win all of the just above 50% games (MD, MI, PU) or win a "replacement" game to cover for it. 

It could get real ugly considering our best win is vs. #63 SC at home, so beating MD, MI, PU, PSU, OSU all ranked better (some considerably) is far from a given. That would be even one game worse than your 5-15, and counts on us winning at Wash (we haven't shown much on the road to inspire confidence). 

 

[Hornsby 1,844]

It feels like almost every single time Mgbako is the one closing out on the shooter, they're nailing a 3 over him.
He is a step late every time. Very lackadaisical. Almost no intensity.
He looks like a very rigid player at this level with a one-dimensional skillset and next to no athleticism. 
Like watching a shell of the 5 star I saw a handful of times in HS/AAU. 
.... starting to notice a trend....

If I saw him not knowing his ranking I'd say 3 star like 150th ranked

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[Home Jersey 7,436]

Remember last season, in the BTT, when we were losing by 27 to Nebraska... 

And Mike Woodson decided he had enough for the day, got two quick techs, and called it quits? 

... Yeah, that's why I'm not convinced he decides to finish the season out if it goes how it's lookin. 

From his POV, I'm gettin' paid either way... what does the King need all this noise from untrue fans for anyway?

"Lions don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep, and Mike Woodson is a lion, man." - Mike Woodson

Mail me my buyout checks (count the zero's first) and catch me on the links or at the Fella's Lounge... 

[Hoosier DaDa 2,436]

1 hour ago, IUFAN1976 said:

We all know that, I just think he’s getting desperate!  He can’t even teach man-to-man and we know he knows nothing about a zone defense and who on his bench can teach it?  Armond Hill?  Lol

Maybe he can ask his buddy Melo to see if his old coach from Syracuse Jimmy B has some time to teach us his killer zone. It sure had this man perplexed!! 

[Home Jersey 7,436]

22 minutes ago, Hornsby said:

If I saw him not knowing his ranking I'd say 3 star like 150th ranked
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Yup I'd say that's a fair evaluation of how he has looked at IU, maybe even a generous reading.

Like a 150th ranked kid who hasn't been developing particularly quickly, albeit showing flashes once in a blue moon. 

He moves very gingerly now, it's odd, like he's stepping on glass or something. Arms like a T-Rex, elbows at his side. 

HS ball is obviously a much different ball game, and some stuff doesn't translate up a level, but... 

The player I saw pre-Indiana quite literally moved differently on the court. He's virtually unrecognizable. 

Never was a great on ball defender but he had a high motor (I saw probably ~5 games, so take with a grain of salt). 

High motor as in, multiple LeBron style chasedown blocks a game, active in passing lanes, boxing out/going after boards. 

You could sort of tell his ball handling would need work and that playmaking was not an emphasis of his game, but I thought he'd be way further along in terms of his ability to drive and finish at the rim by now.

Definitely saw him throw more no look passes in those 5 games than his entire IU career (probably more assists too). 

Hate to say it because I had high hopes for him and not writing him off completely yet... but I'd love to see what he'd look like if he had stayed at Duke. Or if it were Illinois instead of IU. Or - most logically if he had the option - UConn (not sure if he did). 

Mackenzie was always going to be a development player IMO because he does not come from a basketball family and he has been the guinea pig for the sport. His younger brother Ethan has benefitted from their learnings and is now at Oak Hill.

I really hope Mackenzie is able to reach his potential. I am disappointed it's impossible for him to do that at Indiana right now. 

[Hornsby 1,844]

Remember last season, in the BTT, when we were losing by 27 to Nebraska... 
And Mike Woodson decided he had enough for the day, got two quick techs, and called it quits? 
... Yeah, that's why I'm not convinced he decides to finish the season out if it goes how it's lookin. 
From his POV, I'm gettin' paid either way... what does the King need all this noise from untrue fans for anyway?
"Lions don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep, and Mike Woodson is a lion, man." - Mike Woodson
Mail me my buyout checks (count the zero's first) and catch me on the links or at the Fella's Lounge... 

What quinn did is just your basic ponzi scheme. Hire your totally unqualified buddy and pay him one of the top salaries in the league. Fleece boosters of millions and funnel it to your buddies pet project.

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[Home Jersey 7,436]

40 minutes ago, cybergates said:

Going by total % chance of winning, we'd end up with the same results as the game by game predictions which isn't always the case. They add up to 10.28 wins.

I get/agree with your pessimism though since I feel it is unlikely we'd win one out of four of the games where we have around 25%-35% projected chance to win. If that's the case, we have to win all of the just above 50% games (MD, MI, PU) or win a "replacement" game to cover for it. 

It could get real ugly considering our best win is vs. #63 SC at home, so beating MD, MI, PU, PSU, OSU all ranked better (some considerably) is far from a given. That would be even one game worse than your 5-15, and counts on us winning at Wash (we haven't shown much on the road to inspire confidence). 

Yeah man, thanks for this back and forth, been an interesting illustration of diff scenarios... 

As bad as it is, I'm not sure most people are fully appreciating how much worse it can get. 

It's not going to get better.

Especially at this point of the year. Marginally at best. Likely not at all. 

The book is out on Woodson and IU. The talent gap does not exist the rest of the way in B10 as it did for Minnesota. 

Some guys will get hot in some games, so we'll pull out a few on talent alone. 

The ceiling is miserably lower than expected. Our ceiling this year is in the basement, lol. 

We're in for a very rough remainder of the season, gents. 

[Hornsby 1,844]

Sounds like this guy is a big part of the current fiasco.

Booster Steve Ferguson is why

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Dec 14

I still don’t understand why Indiana didn’t fire Mike Woodson while they had the chance to replace him with Dusty May x.com/madeformarch/s…



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[Stuhoo 80,579]

3 hours ago, IUFAN1976 said:

Woodson must be reading the FIRE MIKE WOODSON thread, where else would he get such an idea?

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketball-mike-woodson-says-indiana-is-tinkering-with-playing-zone-defense/

Good for Woody. It could enable a better way of keeping Mgbako, Reneau, and Goode on the court. 

Normally I wouldn't be a fan, but we've put together a personnel set in which our two best offensive threats (Mgbkao and Malik) are horrible at switching and rotating in man defense. If a zone with Ballo as an anchor makes things better? I'm all for it. At least it can't hurt to try it.

That being said; players like Mgbako that lack recognition and response in man-to-man usually aren't all that good in a zone either.

Aye caramba.

[68Hoosier 540]

1 hour ago, Home Jersey said:

It feels like almost every single time Mgbako is the one closing out on the shooter, they're nailing a 3 over him.

He is a step late every time. Very lackadaisical. Almost no intensity.

He looks like a very rigid player at this level with a one-dimensional skillset and next to no athleticism. 

Like watching a shell of the 5 star I saw a handful of times in HS/AAU. 

.... starting to notice a trend....

Lackadaisical is a good word for his defense.  He barely gets his hand in the air at times. 

[go iu bb 5,930]

T.J. Otzelberger signed an extension so cross him off the list of possible Woodson replacements.

[Pagoda 272]

20 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

T.J. Otzelberger signed an extension so cross him off the list of possible Woodson replacements.

His 2023 buyout was $17.5M.  Probably still in that range.  Doesn’t get much higher than that in CBB.  Not too realistic for us.

[HinnyHoosier 4,948]

21 minutes ago, go iu bb said:

T.J. Otzelberger signed an extension so cross him off the list of possible Woodson replacements.

Iowa State knows we're already looking haha

[OKHOOSIER 2,250]

1 hour ago, Home Jersey said:

Yup I'd say that's a fair evaluation of how he has looked at IU, maybe even a generous reading.

Like a 150th ranked kid who hasn't been developing particularly quickly, albeit showing flashes once in a blue moon. 

He moves very gingerly now, it's odd, like he's stepping on glass or something. Arms like a T-Rex, elbows at his side. 

HS ball is obviously a much different ball game, and some stuff doesn't translate up a level, but... 

The player I saw pre-Indiana quite literally moved differently on the court. He's virtually unrecognizable. 

Never was a great on ball defender but he had a high motor (I saw probably ~5 games, so take with a grain of salt). 

High motor as in, multiple LeBron style chasedown blocks a game, active in passing lanes, boxing out/going after boards. 

You could sort of tell his ball handling would need work and that playmaking was not an emphasis of his game, but I thought he'd be way further along in terms of his ability to drive and finish at the rim by now.

Definitely saw him throw more no look passes in those 5 games than his entire IU career (probably more assists too). 

Hate to say it because I had high hopes for him and not writing him off completely yet... but I'd love to see what he'd look like if he had stayed at Duke. Or if it were Illinois instead of IU. Or - most logically if he had the option - UConn (not sure if he did). 

Mackenzie was always going to be a development player IMO because he does not come from a basketball family and he has been the guinea pig for the sport. His younger brother Ethan has benefitted from their learnings and is now at Oak Hill.

I really hope Mackenzie is able to reach his potential. I am disappointed it's impossible for him to do that at Indiana right now. 

In my opinion the issue with Mack is one that happens sometimes at the college level. He doesn’t have NBA level athleticism. A 6-8 high school player with his shooting touch can really be miscalculated until playing against college level athletes. It happens. Being forced to guard high major 3s and 2s does him no favors on that front. 
 

My feeling is he would have been used much, much differently at a place like Kansas or UConn. He wouldn’t start, and his only job would be to wait for open looks from three on the wing. He certainly wouldn’t have been asked to play giant ball at the three— and like I mentioned before, I’m guessing it had a huge impact on him choosing IU. Huge minutes at the position he and his family envisioned him— but again, he lacks the athleticism to be a 3 and is at best a small ball minutes 4. 

[Home Jersey 7,436]

2 minutes ago, OKHOOSIER said:

In my opinion the issue with Mack is one that happens sometimes at the college level. He doesn’t have NBA level athleticism. A 6-8 high school player with his shooting touch can really be miscalculated until playing against college level athletes. It happens. Being forced to guard high major 3s and 2s does him no favors on that front. 

 My feeling is he would have been used much, much differently at a higher place like Kansas or UConn. He wouldn’t start, and his only job would be to wait for open looks from three on the wing. He certainly wouldn’t have been asked to play giant ball at the three— and like I mentioned before, I’m guessing it had a huge impact on him choosing IU. Huge minutes at the position he and his family envisioned him— but again, he lacks the athleticism to be a 3 and is at best a small ball minutes 4. 

Yeah, agree on much of that. Not going to jump out of the gym or be super quick, but he is a physical specimen... could be getting stronger and finishing around the rim better. He totally should be a small ball 4, but I think you're right he saw himself as a 3 and liked the amount of minutes available. Woodson's NBA pedigree was instrumental in landing him (unfortunately that pedigree is decades outdated...). Could see him entering draft or the portal... not back at IU. 

I'm very curious if Hurley recruited him or not out of high school. No way he was unaware of him coming out of NJ but I think Mgbako was committed to Duke early and UConn had Castle committed already so may not have been a fit at the time. If Mackenzie is to salvage his NBA dreams I think a transfer is in order and if I were him, I know what coach I'd bet on to help me get there...

[OKHOOSIER 2,250]

3 minutes ago, Home Jersey said:

Yeah, agree on much of that. Not going to jump out of the gym or be super quick, but he is a physical specimen... could be getting stronger and finishing around the rim better. He totally should be a small ball 4, but I think you're right he saw himself as a 3 and liked the amount of minutes available. Woodson's NBA pedigree was instrumental in landing him (unfortunately that pedigree is decades outdated...). Could see him entering draft or the portal... not back at IU. 

I'm very curious if Hurley recruited him or not out of high school. No way he was unaware of him coming out of NJ but I think Mgbako was committed to Duke early and UConn had Castle committed already so may not have been a fit at the time. If Mackenzie is to salvage his NBA dreams I think a transfer is in order and if I were him, I know what coach I'd bet on to help me get there...

He is a perfect prototype for a 3 and D guy, he just doesn’t play any serviceable defense— at least not at IU. Which is partially on him, and a lot on the system. 

What he chooses to do will be interesting. I highly doubt he’s on any draft boards, and I also don’t believe he would get even comparable money in the portal. So I wouldn’t be shocked to see him back, but I tend to agree with you a fresh start being properly used could salvage his NBA chances if he can show consistent defensive effort and awareness. 

[AZ Hoosier 7,075]

[Hornsby 1,844]

Yeah, agree on much of that. Not going to jump out of the gym or be super quick, but he is a physical specimen... could be getting stronger and finishing around the rim better. He totally should be a small ball 4, but I think you're right he saw himself as a 3 and liked the amount of minutes available. Woodson's NBA pedigree was instrumental in landing him (unfortunately that pedigree is decades outdated...). Could see him entering draft or the portal... not back at IU. 
I'm very curious if Hurley recruited him or not out of high school. No way he was unaware of him coming out of NJ but I think Mgbako was committed to Duke early and UConn had Castle committed already so may not have been a fit at the time. If Mackenzie is to salvage his NBA dreams I think a transfer is in order and if I were him, I know what coach I'd bet on to help me get there...

I could see a transfer but no way he'd get drafter this summer.

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1 minute ago, Hornsby said:

I could see a transfer but no way he'd get drafter this summer.
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I agree but I think he may just be of the mind that it's best to go pro while he's young even if it means spending time in the G League. He really wants to be a pro. I think his family will steer him toward the portal, rightfully