Poll and Discussion - How Attractive is IUBB to Prospective Coaches Right Now?

[Southside 1,914]

Just to get the conversation out of the coaching news and prospect threads.

If you're going to debate, please consider things outside of the 5 banner reason, and weight things like fan expectation (reasonable/unreasonable), arena, facilities, weather, conference, city (Bloom), recruiting fertility (in state), administration, pay, etc.

[Southside 1,914]

As of 3-9-21, IU's pay was ranked 21st. 

That's likely one factor.

 

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/

[IUc2016 7,121]

As of 3-9-21, IU's pay was ranked 21st. 
That's likely one factor.
 
https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/

You need to look at the number when he was hired.

It was 8th


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[IU Scott 2,375]

I would put it around 8-10

[Magnanimous 4,603]

It’s one of the best jobs in all of college sports. 

[Trish 11,566]

I voted Top 10 because I didn't see the "RIGHT NOW" portion of the question LOL.

Alright, if every job in America is open at one time and coaches had free pickins - Indiana is Top 10, hands down. NO QUESTION.

But right now..

It's hard for me to fight for Mussleman or even Oats leaving. Why? Because they built something great at current destinations. It's hard to win guys. These guys made it look easy to build, yes. But to start over and leave after two years for each coach? It just really doesn't make sense. The timing isn't there personally. Oats got a fat extension. Arkansas AD stated Mussleman is about to get an extension. 

To me right now, Indiana has the potential but to convince a coach to leave an already solid program after two years doesn't make sense imo. 

It's a Top 20 job currently. The stress of the job is enough to put Thad in an ankle bracelet prior to an interview!!!

[str8baller 5,256]

IU’s still a top 5-6 job. Problem is that a top 5 job requires a top 5 coach. Top 10 at worst. Otherwise it’s like letting a 15 yr permit holder drive a Porche 911. Not only are they not going to maximize the potential, all the mistakes are going to be amplified trying to drive 200mph.   
 

UCLA has steered the same fate. UNC the same (old Dean buddy and Dohrety) at times. UK has too (BCG). None of the blue bloods excel without a top coach.  
 

IUs a top job but you can’t fit a second tier coach into a first tier job. It’s always about timing for places like IU. That’s why Glass is such a loser for not dumping Crean for Stevens very early. All basketball people knew Stevens was superior. Then extending Crean on top of that was insane , but I’m not sure who’d they hire. Not that many top ten coaches out there (I’d estimate about ten...ha). All about timing. 

[Southside 1,914]

10 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

You need to look at the number when he was hired.

It was 8th


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Doesn't work like that. Some teams seem to always stay in the top 10, regardless of when they are signed. 

We popped into the top 10, just like Auburn did. Auburn... 

[Southside 1,914]

7 minutes ago, str8baller said:

IU’s still a top 5-6 job. Problem is that a top 5 job requires a top 5 coach. Top 10 at worst. Otherwise it’s like letting a 15 yr permit holder drive a Porche 911. Not only are they not going to maximize the potential, all the mistakes are going to be amplified trying to drive 200mph.   
 

UCLA has steered the same fate. UNC the same (old Dean buddy and Dohrety) at times. UK has too (BCG). None of the blue bloods excel without a top coach.  
 

IUs a top job but you can’t fit a second tier coach into a first tier job. It’s always about timing for places like IU. That’s why Glass is such a loser for not dumping Crean for Stevens very early. All basketball people knew Stevens was superior. Then extending Crean on top of that was insane , but I’m not sure who’d they hire. Not that many top ten coaches out there (I’d estimate about ten...ha). All about timing. 

I agree with most of this. I'd just stress that when you go with a 2nd tier guy, and he doesn't pan out, it simply hurts your rank. I think it was a top 10ish or 15ish job when Crean left. but I simply think we've fallen due to performance, and the dynamics of college BB are just changing.

Can't miss this time. Another miss will result in more apathy, and perhaps another generation of kids who forget (kids outside IN).

[Southside 1,914]

15 minutes ago, Treesh said:

I voted Top 10 because I didn't see the "RIGHT NOW" portion of the question LOL.

Alright, if every job in America is open at one time and coaches had free pickins - Indiana is Top 10, hands down. NO QUESTION.

But right now..

It's hard for me to fight for Mussleman or even Oats leaving. Why? Because they built something great at current destinations. It's hard to win guys. These guys made it look easy to build, yes. But to start over and leave after two years for each coach? It just really doesn't make sense. The timing isn't there personally. Oats got a fat extension. Arkansas AD stated Mussleman is about to get an extension. 

To me right now, Indiana has the potential but to convince a coach to leave an already solid program after two years doesn't make sense imo. 

It's a Top 20 job currently. The stress of the job is enough to put Thad in an ankle bracelet prior to an interview!!!

To me, and I stress "to me", a top 10 destination is a place where a guy like Mussleman, Drew, or Beard doesn't even need time to think. 

[IUc2016 7,121]

Doesn't work like that. Some teams seem to always stay in the top 10, regardless of when they are signed. 
We popped into the top 10, just like Auburn did. Auburn... 

Archie Miller’s salary would have stayed in the top 10 had he deserved a raise. His results didn’t garner a raise so why would IU give him one? Just so they can say he is top 10 paid?

That doesn’t make sense.


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[Southside 1,914]

15 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

Archie Miller’s salary would have stayed in the top 10 had he deserved a raise. His results didn’t garner a raise so why would IU give him one? Just so they can say he is top 10 paid?

That doesn’t make sense.


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The bar rises every year. IMO, a new contract for a true top 10 program is going to start in the top 5 knowing the bar will be raised. Not start barely inside the top 10 knowing it will fall outside the top 20 in a few years.

[str8baller 5,256]

18 minutes ago, Southside said:

I agree with most of this. I'd just stress that when you go with a 2nd tier guy, and he doesn't pan out, it simply hurts your rank. I think it was a top 10ish or 15ish job when Crean left. but I simply think we've fallen due to performance, and the dynamics of college BB are just changing.

Can't miss this time. Another miss will result in more apathy, and perhaps another generation of kids who forget (kids outside IN).

Meh... top tier coaches and type A personalities don’t think like that. They all think they’re the best or they wouldn’t take the job. You can spin it out self rationalize it anyway you want. 
 

The truth is, while the UCLA and IU jobs are down right now they’re infinitely more desirable than following coach K when he retires. Or Roy Williams. Those jobs are “great” but the situations following them aren’t. 

[IUc2016 7,121]

The bar rises every year. IMO, a new contract for a true top 10 program is going to start in the top 5 knowing the bar will be raised. Not start barely inside the top 10 knowing it will fall outside the top 20 in a few years.

If IU’s coach was coach K he would be paid according to his results which garner top 3.

If IU’s coach is Archie Miller, he will be paid accordingly which does not garner top 5.

It is simple. You don’t pay they same amount regardless of the coach, it doesn’t work that way no matter if you are Kentucky, duke, or IU.


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[Southside 1,914]

2 minutes ago, str8baller said:

Meh... top tier coaches and type A personalities don’t think like that. They all think they’re the best or they wouldn’t take the job. You can spin it out self rationalize it anyway you want. 
 

The truth is, while the UCLA and IU jobs are down right now they’re infinitely more desirable than following coach K when he retires. Or Roy Williams. Those jobs are “great” but the situations following them aren’t. 

What your saying is IU is more attractive than UNC or Duke? You just said top tier coaches and type A personalities don't think like that.

[Southside 1,914]

19 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

If IU’s coach was coach K he would be paid according to his results which garner top 3.

If IU’s coach is Archie Miller, he will be paid accordingly which does not garner top 5.

It is simple. You don’t pay they same amount regardless of the coach, it doesn’t work that way no matter if you are Kentucky, duke, or IU.


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simple question. Do you think the next coach at UNC and/or Duke will start their first year being the 8th or worse paid coach? I'm going to guess they'll start in the top 5

[IUc2016 7,121]

simple question. Do you think the next coach at UNC and/or Duke will start their first year being the 8th or worse paid coach? I'm going to guess they'll start in the top 5

I think if they hire a mid major up and comer they will pay them according to their resume which probably won’t be top 5.


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[Southside 1,914]

30 minutes ago, IUc2016 said:

I think if they hire a mid major up and comer they will pay them according to their resume which probably won’t be top 5.


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Didn't UNC pay Matt Doherty top 5, after only one year of HC experience?

[str8baller 5,256]

50 minutes ago, Southside said:

What your saying is IU is more attractive than UNC or Duke? You just said top tier coaches and type A personalities don't think like that.

Yes. If I had to choose, I’d take UCLA over following coach K. But it never comes down to that. Those jobs are rarely open, especially at the same time. So yes, when one comes up a type A top tier coach will jump.  
 

But objectively, following K will be a killer... no matter how good  the coach. 

[HoosierAloha 30,068]

This is a great topic.  I doubt many will agree and will come at me with hatred.  However, these are the realities of the CURRENT position.

IU was, and still has the potential to be, a top job.  There are many reasons why that is

Pros:

• Passion (when you're winning there are few fan/alumni bases that can match the sheer size and passion of Hoosier Nation)
• History
• Basketball first (and only in some cases) mentality of school and state
• Recruiting fertility
• Pay (when you're winning the endorsements on top of your base salary will be there)
• Fan base (when you're winning)
• Arena (can really impact a game when AH is packed)

Cons

• Conference (seen as tackle basketball, some players don't want to touch it, every game is a grind)
• Recruiting (how to put it politically correct? some players shy away due to the lack of diversity on campus/Bloomington)
• Administration (IU doesn't want to play in the grey area or be perceived as playing in that area)
• Arena (while historic it's still dated)
• Facilities (ugh, drop ceilings, Archie had to fight for updated locker rooms)
• Fan base (everyone* believes their basketball IQ is higher than the coach)

There are a lot of aspects that can be negative when you're not winning but are absolute positives when you get things rolling.  The biggest issue that we're paying for, right now, is the mismanagement of the program for the past 20 years.  There are few coaches who want to step into that fishbowl when they feel they have little chance of succeeding in the eyes of fans while dealing with the administration.