IUWBB - News and Notes

[Aaron 4,318]

1 hour ago, HoosierHoopster said:

Largely agree but feel IU women's team needs to upgrade its size and athleticism generally. They've been at a size and athleticism disadvantage in a few games now.

Agreed. Definitely need to get a starting more athletic big in middle given Moren's system that relies on that + shooters. The shooters are there and they are bringing in a more athletic guard who can shoot next season (Nevaeh Caffey). 

Moren doing best she can playing her system this year with hand tied behind back. Everyone assumed (I was in this boat) Lily Meister would make a huge jump and it just has not happened. Knew they were in trouble there when I saw her get owned in post by mediocre Butler bigs. What has pleasantly surprised me is how much Moren has figured out how to work around this since to a pretty good degree.

Moren knows its a huge issue as well and been extremely hard on Lily during her postgame pressers that have been posted online.   

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,527]

I think the lack of a true point is a bigger issue than Lily Meister. 

[Stuhoo 82,430]

22 minutes ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

I think the lack of a true point is a bigger issue than Lily Meister. 

Doesn’t have to be a point that does that, but yes. The current team doesn’t have anyone that can force the defense to rotate. Holmes wasn’t a point but she forced rotations and double teams. A point that can break someone down off the bounce can do that too.

Defensive rotations + shooters = points

[TTT 1,047]

In T. Moren words a couple years ago….It’s one thing to get to the top but it’s another thing to sustain it.  After you reach the top the goal is to keep it going.

[Todd41 734]

1 hour ago, Stuhoo said:

Doesn’t have to be a point that does that, but yes. The current team doesn’t have anyone that can force the defense to rotate. Holmes wasn’t a point but she forced rotations and double teams. A point that can break someone down off the bounce can do that too.

Defensive rotations + shooters = points

I agree. Not having a playmaker that forces teams to double or collapse multiple players on in the paint is the biggest change to this team from last year.  

If we do not have a playmaker like that, then we definitely need more athletic and dynamic offensive players that can get downhill and score at the rim or kick it out for the open three.

[TTT 1,047]

Garzon shooting:  last couple games when defense tighten up on IU Ladies…(it’s like the men) Garzon doesn’t have hardly a chance to make shot.  1.  her feet are off balance 2. she is a quick shooter but her shot is rushed or forced (bad shot) 3.the passer doesn’t pin point accurate pass so she gets ball in shooting position ready to shoot good shot 4.  Lack of rhythm by not only Garzon but passing teammates/whole team.

[TTT 1,047]

Indiana Ladies basketball 20 game yearly win streak is in jeopardy.  
In the past T. Moren teams have often showed good improvement during this time in the season.

[Aaron 4,318]

3 hours ago, TTT said:

Indiana Ladies basketball 20 game yearly win streak is in jeopardy.  
In the past T. Moren teams have often showed good improvement during this time in the season.

It will be close but I expect them to get to exactly 20. 10-8 in league (wins over Purdue x2, Rutgers, Neb, at Minny) and 18-11 heading into Big Ten Tourney. Win Thu and lose Fri in Big Ten Tourney 19-12, 8 or 9 seed in NCAA's. Win first game, fall to one seed in second round.

At this point, I had team 13-7 and 5-4 which is what they are. However, I had wins over Harvard, Butler, and Illinois but losses to Stanford, Baylor, and Iowa. 

IU getting to that 10-8 and getting the two wins to get there between the six tourney teams they face (Neb, Minny, Mich, MSU, OSU, Maryland) to close could be slightly different. However they are right on schedule. Needed to go 6-0 vs. bottom five of league and are 3-0 so far and I fully expect them to get the other three with two of them at home (Rutgers, Purdue once) and the one on the road (Purdue again). Also 2-4 vs. the tourney teams so far (wins over Iowa and Washington and losses to UCLA, USC, Ill, Maryland). 5-4 at halfway point.

In other words right on schedule, no more or less then that as they have been all year. Every time we think they are better or worse than 20-13 and second round NCAA team as 8 or 9 seed they remind you they are exactly that. Deeply flawed with lack of post play, rebounds, and to many turnovers, but gritty enough and good enough shooters to be exactly that 20-13 team.

It might be a bit circuitous to get there in terms of who they beat and lose to. However, in end they are who I thought they were preseason and will end up exactly that. Also Shay has been far more inconsistent then I thought but Striplin has been better than I assumed despite her flaws. Everyone else exactly what I figured. 

This team is similar to 2014-2015 Crean team for men. Maddingly inconsistent with a few wins and losses no one expected. However, in end they were just good enough for NCAA Tournament because their shooting was strong. Also, that team had issues with post play as Perea was starting big and didn't make the leap everyone expected similar to Lily. However, they worked around it by making shots more often than not just as women are now and finished at exactly 20 wins with 14 losses. Another similarity is pre-conference. One loss to a good mid-major (Harvard vs. Eastern Washington), one blowout loss to top team (UNC vs. Louisville). One basically road loss that should not have happened with more IU fans there (Butler vs. Georgetown). One top win over tourney team on neutral floor (Baylor vs. SMU), one solid home win vs. power 5 (Stanford vs. Pitt) and otherwise drumming the rest of the pre-conference teams as everyone expected. Also both got of to strong start in league play (4-1 women vs. 5-1 men). Men treaded water rest of year to squeak into tourney with just enough wins over expected teams and fully expect same from women.  

If women follow men for next season as they have this one, its back to competing for Big Ten title next season. If Yarden makes same similar leap Yogi did and you find a quality center somewhere in portal or via late signee (for men it was some guy everyone may have heard of who still plays in Indiana up the road named Thomas Bryant;)), that jump back to near top of league is well within the reach.      

Pre 2018, anyone would kill for this but expectations are rightly raised now. However, lets treat this for what it is as rebuilding year after losing best player in program history and still very likely to make postseason despite all the flaws.  

 

[Stuhoo 82,430]

25 minutes ago, Aaron said:

It will be close but I expect them to get to exactly 20. 10-8 in league (wins over Purdue x2, Rutgers, Neb, at Minny) and 18-11 heading into Big Ten Tourney. Win Thu and lose Fri in Big Ten Tourney 19-12, 8 or 9 seed in NCAA's. Win first game, fall to one seed in second round.

At this point, I had team 13-7 and 5-4 which is what they are. However, I had wins over Harvard, Butler, and Illinois but losses to Stanford, Baylor, and Iowa. 

IU getting to that 10-8 and getting the two wins to get there between the six tourney teams they face (Neb, Minny, Mich, MSU, OSU, Maryland) to close could be slightly different. However they are right on schedule. Needed to go 6-0 vs. bottom five of league and are 3-0 so far and I fully expect them to get the other three with two of them at home (Rutgers, Purdue once) and the one on the road (Purdue again). Also 2-4 vs. the tourney teams so far (wins over Iowa and Washington and losses to UCLA, USC, Ill, Maryland). 5-4 at halfway point.

In other words right on schedule, no more or less then that as they have been all year. Every time we think they are better or worse than 20-13 and second round NCAA team as 8 or 9 seed they remind you they are exactly that. Deeply flawed with lack of post play, rebounds, and to many turnovers, but gritty enough and good enough shooters to be exactly that 20-13 team.

It might be a bit circuitous to get there in terms of who they beat and lose to. However, in end they are who I thought they were preseason and will end up exactly that. Also Shay has been far more inconsistent then I thought but Striplin has been better than I assumed despite her flaws. Everyone else exactly what I figured. 

This team is similar to 2014-2015 Crean team for men. Maddingly inconsistent with a few wins and losses no one expected. However, in end they were just good enough for NCAA Tournament because their shooting was strong. Also, that team had issues with post play as Perea was starting big and din't make the leap everyone expected similar to Lily. However, they worked around it by making shots more often than not just as women are now and finished at exactly 20 wins with 14 losses. Another similarity is pre-conference. One loss to a good mid-major (Harvard vs. Eastern Washington), one blowout loss to top team (UNC vs. Louisville). One basically road loss that should not have happened with more IU fans there (Butler vs. Georgetown). One top win over tourney team (Baylor vs. SMU), one solid home win vs. power 5 (Stanford vs. Pitt) and otherwise drumming the rest of the pre-conference teams as everyone expected. Also both got of to strong start in league play (4-1 women vs. 5-1 men). Men treaded water rest of year to squeak into tourney with just enough wins over expected teams and fully expect same from women.  

If women follow men for next season as they have this one, its back to competing for Big Ten title next season. If Yarden makes same similar leap Yogi did and you find a quality center somewhere in portal or via late signee (for men it was some guy everyone may have heard of who still plays in Indiana up the road named Thomas Bryant;), that jump back to near top of league is well within the reach.      

Pre 2018, anyone would kill for this but expectations are rightly raised now. However, lets treat this for what it is as rebuilding year after losing best player in program history and still very likely to make postseason despite all the flaws.  

 

It's a pretty damn good situation; About 20 wins, a tourney bid, and likely above .500 in the B1G in a very down year for IU.

Two freshmen coming in next year that are more talented than any freshmen we've had in a while, portal with an eye towards our athleticism needs, plus Beaumont returns and Garzon and Czieski are back. 

Our staff is having to will this roster to the finish line, but the coaching and culture is so, so good and the past and future are very bright.

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,527]

I think Beaumont has the 2nd best offensive skill on this roster, she's a big miss. 

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,527]

I hope Caffey is ready for big mins next year. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 86,204]

5 minutes ago, Certified Sunshine Pumper said:

I hope Caffey is ready for big mins next year. 

But that's the big problem to me.  CTM is Ebenezer Scrooge at giving minutes to freshmen.  How much playing time will Makalusky and Caffey actually get.  Except for when Parrish was out, Jules isn't getting any significant minutes.  A CTM philosphy has been to ride the veterans and rely on her bench very little.  

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,527]

15 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

But that's the big problem to me.  CTM is Ebenezer Scrooge at giving minutes to freshmen.  How much playing time will Makalusky and Caffey actually get.  Except for when Parrish was out, Jules isn't getting any significant minutes.  A CTM philosphy has been to ride the veterans and rely on her bench very little.  

What evidence do you have for the bold? 

Garzon played 30MPG and started 32 games as a FR. Holmes 19MPG as a FR, Tyra Buss played 31MPG and started every game, Cahill 28MPG and started every game as a FR, Jaelynn Penn/Bendu Yeaney both started 35+ games as a FR and played 35mpg, Berger 20MPG, Gulbe 17MPG. 

How much playing time Makalusky and Caffey get will be determined on how ready they are to play high level D1 women's basketball, their age won't matter. 

Jules isn't getting mins because she isn't very good and doesn't have a position offensively. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 86,204]

@Certified Sunshine Pumper don't confuse me with facts!

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,527]

6 minutes ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

@Certified Sunshine Pumper don't confuse me with facts!

I have not seen either of those girls play a game, they both play on excellent HS teams. I'd like to see HSE and Incarnate play each other. 

[TTT 1,047]

Maya Makalusky will play next year because she can shoot the ball at 6’3” or 6’4” and rebound even though she will bulk up over her time at IU and is a high IQ player. (wiry and no injury needed).

[Certified Sunshine Pumper 9,527]

7 minutes ago, TTT said:

Maya Makalusky will play next year because she can shoot the ball at 6’3” or 6’4” and rebound even though she will bulk up over her time at IU and is a high IQ player. (wiry and no injury needed).

That's fine, but we need guards more than that skill set, currently. 

[Class of '66 Old Fart 86,204]

 

[HoosierHoopster 7,276]

9 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

But that's the big problem to me.  CTM is Ebenezer Scrooge at giving minutes to freshmen.  How much playing time will Makalusky and Caffey actually get.  Except for when Parrish was out, Jules isn't getting any significant minutes.  A CTM philosphy has been to ride the veterans and rely on her bench very little.  

This is one of only two concerns I have with Moren (the other is not enough focus/results in recruiting athletes and size). 
In this one area she’s kinda like Woodson, veteran focused. Star frosh can be keys to a team, if you want top frosh talent to come to IU (and you should) you have to show you’ll play and develop them. Moren is an outstanding coach, but she needs to improve here

[DJ Candypants 138]

11 hours ago, Class of '66 Old Fart said:

But that's the big problem to me.  CTM is Ebenezer Scrooge at giving minutes to freshmen.  How much playing time will Makalusky and Caffey actually get.  Except for when Parrish was out, Jules isn't getting any significant minutes.  A CTM philosphy has been to ride the veterans and rely on her bench very little.  

During the Oregon game it appeared that some fresh legs could have got us a W. It was painfully obvious that momentum was shifting and a few of the vets were gassed. Thought the same was happening against Washington but Garzon kept us afloat. Hoping to see these freshman next season get more run.